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[HotAC] House Rules/Mods

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Well.. House House Rules and Modifications... as Heroes of the Aturi Cluster is itself a big heap of house rules.

 

Looking for feedback on these.

 

Extra Munitions

 

Attach this card to an equipped Torpedo, Missile, or Bomb Upgrade card. When you are instructed to discard that Upgrade card, you may instead discard this card instead.

 

Δ  (2 pts.)

 

Δ = Upgrade Attachment (attaches to an equipped upgrade instead of the ship itself)

 

Pros: Allows for Extra Munitions without taking up a Modification Slot.

Cons: Must pay 2 points per Munition.

 

Missile Loadout

 

Your upgrade bar gains the Missile icon.

 

[Torpedo]  (1 pt.?)

 

Only the A-Wing can take Missiles at this time.  There are many good ones, but no other ships can take them.  Some could be very nasty in HotAC (ex. Homing Missile).  Why not let other ships take them?

 

 

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I'm sorry I have to see that I don't like either of them for the following reasons.

 

Extra Munitions feels like a proper ship modification for me, it makes no sense to upgrade the torpedo so I can use it twice, what should I upgrade on the torpedo? Half the size of it so I can take 2 of it? It seems more that another Launcher added to the ship makes more sense so I'd modify the ship instead of the torpedo to carry another. In my games I usually have too many modification slots free anyway, it's not like the elite slots where there's a lot of competition. In the mod department there's only a handful useful stuff, engine upgrade/vectored thrusters to get some repositioning ability, maybe stealth device to get another evade die (but only on AGI 2+ fighters anyway) and yea that's pretty much it. Can easily fit extra munitions in there as well as guidance chips. Never really had an issue with "need another mod slot". And last but not least, I'd rather pay 2 exp than 2 for each torpedo/bomb I have equipped.

 

Missile Loadout I can understand but I feel like this will prevent playing A-Wing even more. Why would anyone take an A-Wing now when you take even that unique aspect off it? I'd rather give the A-Wing an A-Wing only modification that will grant it another missile slot so it can carry 2 different ones to battle and fire up to 4 per mission, but then again maybe I played too much Rogue Squadron.

 

But feel free to play with these rules as you wish, they're not bad and after all everyone can play with their own set of rules ;)

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I understand. We are always feeling like we need to save our mods for defensive purposes. Figuring out a way to get Extra Munitions without using a mod slot seems like a solution for us.

 

I wish there was some way to make the A-Wing desireable to play.  Behind its awesome dial and 3 green dice are only 2 hull and 2 shields.  The 2 die attack really hurts it in a game where red dice are king.  Yes, you can kite TIEs all day, but if you aren't killing TIEs you don't get XP (another reason to pool XP).  I think allowing the A-Wing to take an extra mod (a la TIE Interceptor) would help for HotAC.  Lots of missiles helps, but then you are using those Mod slots on Extra Munitions instead of Shield Upgrade, Vectored Thrusters, Autothrusters, etc.

 

One question for XP poolers.  When someone gets shot down and only gets 1/2 XP, how do you figure that? Divvy up the XP pool and then cut their share in 1/2?

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One question for XP poolers.  When someone gets shot down and only gets 1/2 XP, how do you figure that? Divvy up the XP pool and then cut their share in 1/2?

 

That's how we played it last time we had a session, divide the xp pool, then handle each shot down on his/her own, dividing this by half or even to 0 if applicable.

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One question for XP poolers.  When someone gets shot down and only gets 1/2 XP, how do you figure that? Divvy up the XP pool and then cut their share in 1/2?

 

That's how we played it last time we had a session, divide the xp pool, then handle each shot down on his/her own, dividing this by half or even to 0 if applicable.

What did you do with the remainder of their xp? Dole it out to the rest of the squad or just bank the balance for the next mission or just discard them?

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I don't like them, sorry. Extra Munitions has already been significantly altered for the campaign so that all ships can benefit from it. You're effectively adding an additional mod slot to every ship, which I think would push the balance too far in the Rebels' favour.

 

The missile one... let the A-Wing be unique! It doesn't have much else going for it (as you correctly pointed out).

 

To make A-Wings more playable, I'd allow Z-95 Headhunters to be a starting ship with initial 14 points (so total value 26 points like the X-Wing and Y-Wing). That will give natural progression to anyone wanting to play an A-wing since they can take missile upgrades with them when they upgrade. It'll also give them a head-start on upgrades, e.g. PS 3 + Predator + Vectored Thrusters all before you've even played your first game and all are useful to carry forward for the A-Wing.

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I don't like them, either.  I like Extra Munitions as it is.  You have to make a decision to be defensive or not.  There are benefits to be more offensive at times.  My munitions Y-wing went for Extra Munitions before any defensive upgrade.  Well worth it, if you ask me.  Make people take a choice, or else they will all look the same.  

 

I also don't like the Missile one.  Let A-wings have their thing.  

 

 

 

 

One question for XP poolers.  When someone gets shot down and only gets 1/2 XP, how do you figure that? Divvy up the XP pool and then cut their share in 1/2?

 
That's how we played it last time we had a session, divide the xp pool, then handle each shot down on his/her own, dividing this by half or even to 0 if applicable.


What did you do with the remainder of their xp? Dole it out to the rest of the squad or just bank the balance for the next mission or just discard them?

 

 

We dolled them out to those that needed it most.  We usually do it for those that were lower PS than the others (not everyone started at the same time).   If someone is one point away from something awesome, and everyone agrees, we can give that guy one.  

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Forgot the second houserule regarding getting shot down: you lose 5XP, and that's it. No rolling dice.

 

I like this one.  I suggest adding a gradient to it: lose less XP in Friendly Territory, more XP in Hostile Territory.  When we take a mission in Hostile space, it ratchets up the tension a bit.  The stakes for getting shot down go up a bit.

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Forgot the second houserule regarding getting shot down: you lose 5XP, and that's it. No rolling dice.

 

If you're doing this, I think it should be a harsher penalty. That's basically making the shot down penalty be the lowest possible that it could be out of the current options. I'd be keener to say "Earn 0 XP for any game you are shot down in". -5XP means you essentially don't really care about dying.

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Thing is, with all rules that I make, I try to keep the bookkeeping down. If I pool XP, it's very hard to retroactively say: "This player only earns half." It's even a pain in the ass if you don't pool XP. So I use one simply detraction at the end of the mssion, and the bookkeeping is kept to a minimum. Of course you can change the modifier with the territory stuff, but I think that's factored in the mission loss (you know, you have to jump out or you count as shot down). My shot down penalty is more for the lost ship and less for the effort of collecting the pilot.

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My bouse rule:

Predator - everyone gets it, for free. With a caveat. You have to earn it. You earn it by becoming an ACE versus particular fighters. That means, 5 kills. For each fighter type your are an ACE against, you get the benefit of PREDATOR.

The reason for this is change is I found that the utility of predator makes it such a good choice, especially early on, that majority of people (at least in my group) take it. To encourage a bit more creativity, and trying out other talents and abilities, the solution above was proposed. As the ubiquitous TIE shows up every mission, it is affected and helps the players, but the more rare TIEs such as Defenders and Phantoms remain largely unaffected - it helps make them feel like the elite forces they should be.

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Thing is, with all rules that I make, I try to keep the bookkeeping down. If I pool XP, it's very hard to retroactively say: "This player only earns half." It's even a pain in the ass if you don't pool XP. So I use one simply detraction at the end of the mssion, and the bookkeeping is kept to a minimum. Of course you can change the modifier with the territory stuff, but I think that's factored in the mission loss (you know, you have to jump out or you count as shot down). My shot down penalty is more for the lost ship and less for the effort of collecting the pilot.

 

With pooling XP though, couldn't you just pool it out as normal but then halve what the shot down player receives? The other half of that XP is lost. Same amount of book-keeping as -5XP. That might also work alongside pooling XP in terms of making players want to work together to save their comrades as otherwise XP gets lost?

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My bouse rule:

Predator - everyone gets it, for free. With a caveat. You have to earn it. You earn it by becoming an ACE versus particular fighters. That means, 5 kills. For each fighter type your are an ACE against, you get the benefit of PREDATOR.

The reason for this is change is I found that the utility of predator makes it such a good choice, especially early on, that majority of people (at least in my group) take it. To encourage a bit more creativity, and trying out other talents and abilities, the solution above was proposed. As the ubiquitous TIE shows up every mission, it is affected and helps the players, but the more rare TIEs such as Defenders and Phantoms remain largely unaffected - it helps make them feel like the elite forces they should be.

 

I like this idea. Makes the players stronger against TIE Fighters as they have all their EPTs + free Predator, but weaker against other ship types as they're unlikely to get 5 kills on them to earn the free Predator. Gives the kill boxes on the pilot sheets actual meaning as well.

 

Edit: You should suggest this to the HotAC author!

Edited by Dronevil

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Thing is, with all rules that I make, I try to keep the bookkeeping down. If I pool XP, it's very hard to retroactively say: "This player only earns half." It's even a pain in the ass if you don't pool XP. So I use one simply detraction at the end of the mssion, and the bookkeeping is kept to a minimum. Of course you can change the modifier with the territory stuff, but I think that's factored in the mission loss (you know, you have to jump out or you count as shot down). My shot down penalty is more for the lost ship and less for the effort of collecting the pilot.

 

With pooling XP though, couldn't you just pool it out as normal but then halve what the shot down player receives? The other half of that XP is lost. Same amount of book-keeping as -5XP. That might also work alongside pooling XP in terms of making players want to work together to save their comrades as otherwise XP gets lost?

 

That would have been my assumption.  Stefan were you talking about dividing up the XP per player, halving the ones who got shot down, and putting the half lost back into the pool to divide again between the players who didn't get shot down?  That's crazy, to be honest.

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My bouse rule:

Predator - everyone gets it, for free. With a caveat. You have to earn it. You earn it by becoming an ACE versus particular fighters. That means, 5 kills. For each fighter type your are an ACE against, you get the benefit of PREDATOR.

The reason for this is change is I found that the utility of predator makes it such a good choice, especially early on, that majority of people (at least in my group) take it. To encourage a bit more creativity, and trying out other talents and abilities, the solution above was proposed. As the ubiquitous TIE shows up every mission, it is affected and helps the players, but the more rare TIEs such as Defenders and Phantoms remain largely unaffected - it helps make them feel like the elite forces they should be.

Do you treat Predator as it reads or have you followed some other's suggestion of making it only reroll 1 die regardless of PS?

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My bouse rule:

Predator - everyone gets it, for free. With a caveat. You have to earn it. You earn it by becoming an ACE versus particular fighters. That means, 5 kills. For each fighter type your are an ACE against, you get the benefit of PREDATOR.

The reason for this is change is I found that the utility of predator makes it such a good choice, especially early on, that majority of people (at least in my group) take it. To encourage a bit more creativity, and trying out other talents and abilities, the solution above was proposed. As the ubiquitous TIE shows up every mission, it is affected and helps the players, but the more rare TIEs such as Defenders and Phantoms remain largely unaffected - it helps make them feel like the elite forces they should be.

Do you treat Predator as it reads or have you followed some other's suggestion of making it only reroll 1 die regardless of PS?
I treat it as the card. Depending on how many players, I've found that there is a chance you won't have it against certain craft. Regular TIEs, for sure, but untill you earn 5 kills on bombers, you have no predation abilities. Think of it this way; when you get those 5 kills versus an Interceptor, you are so familiar with the capabilities of the craft you get the two dice to reroll. When you encounter an elite pilot, they are limited by the craft, but still skilled enough to lessen the reroll.

Adding some friendly competition as well. If you have killed 4 bombers and need to get the fifth for the predator/ace bonus, you may change your desired target leaving a pesky TIE or two to wreak havoc - and believe me, they do. I've seen many an Aturi pilot fall to a TIE. As opposed to an enemy elite.

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Forgot the second houserule regarding getting shot down: you lose 5XP, and that's it. No rolling dice.

 

If you're doing this, I think it should be a harsher penalty. That's basically making the shot down penalty be the lowest possible that it could be out of the current options. I'd be keener to say "Earn 0 XP for any game you are shot down in". -5XP means you essentially don't really care about dying.

 

 

Exactly this. -5xp is nowhere near the average amount of xp lost in our games when someone dies, someone who gets out with only -5 is considered very lucky, there have been quite a few people losing 12 xp by losing the most expensive card which is usually a torpedo for 5 or 6 and the most expensive elite skill which is either predator/outmaneuver/push the limit for 6 or a pilot skill that costed even more (wedge is 9). Or just double eyeball for 0 xp this round which usually comes down to more than 10 xp lost.

 

If people heard that they'd get away with only -5 they'd be just way more reckless in our games. I'm not sure why you need to simplify ejecting, I think it is pretty easy to determine as it is, even when pooling xp. After the mission, divide total xp by player count, then everyone handles his xp loss on his/her own, so if you ejected with -50% xp malus, discard half of your xp, but everyone else gets their share like it was.

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Free Predator would just be crazy.

But it isn't really free. You do have to earn it. Will it apply to the lowly TIE after one mission? Likely. But, as I have flown the campaign twice, that is the ONLY ship that I have qualified it for. That means, no shuttles, Advanced, Defender, Phantom, etc. My luck has been against me for getting more than 5 kills on anything but a default TIE.

Yes, someone COULD get more kills than I, likely in fact, but as any random ships have been varying types, bombers have been far too infrequent, and focusing on accomplishing the mission has prevented earning it on all enemy craft.

Really, what I propose is to make it worthwhile (beyond bragging rights) to keep track of your kills.

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I am actually thinking of dropping Predator on my Y-Wing.  After listening to Shuttle Tydirium, I think I might swap it out for Stay On Target.  This would trigger Targeting Astromech, which would trigger my Hobbie pilot talent.  I'd be getting a Target Lock plus Focus on almost every attack. No real need for Predator.

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Pool XP. Seriously, just do it.

Sorry for necroing the thread, but what do you think would be the best way to do it?

I'd also rather only keep track of XP at the end of mission to reduce bookkeeping and take focus away from dealing damage as often as possible (so basically, no kill or guardian assist, and not XP for damaging opponents).

I only flew a few missions, so I am not sure these values would work well: 

2XP for Tie Fighters and 4XP + the usual bounty for large, and non Tie Fighter ships (+ ace bonus)?

and 1 XP for opponents damaged but not destroyed (2 for non Tie)?

 

Does it seem reasonable to you?

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We simply put all spent XP in one pool. For our new campaign, however, we decided the following: every player marks their XP as usual. Achievement XP go into the common pool. Every player can donate XP into the common pool, and every player can take out XP of the common pool (Squad Leader decides). Seems the best of both worlds, but so far, tested only one play session.

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