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John Constantine

I'm back with a whole load of reworked stuff

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I guess we think differently, thats good. I feel thou that gondor should be the bulwark of the west therfore it should have descent defenders (outside of beregond or blood of numenor) they dont, you dont think so. Also i still feel that Gondor is underdeveloped i remember an episode from the grey company saying that gondor lacks "glue cards" i agree thou i feel its a bit better today but not by much. Therefor i wanted to make a glue card, thats my reasoning, and thematically a white tower watchman should be an elite guard and therefore warant a good defense. 

 

Also Defender of rivendell decks wants to discard so its not really a big thing and they also have an easier time to make their allies better with attachments and events than gondor has.

Have you seen the updated Guard of the Citade? :)

 

 

 

Yes and dont like it, with sword-thrain he could have 4 defence + 1 from Rainment of war=thats potentially 5 defence and 4 hp for a 2 cost ally that is a bit strong even for me wishing to improve gondor decks. Edited Defender of ramas could have 5/3 so im not sure..

 

Doesn't makes sense to me. You say Gondor lacks good defenders and should have them, I give you one, and you don't like that :o

 

Yes, defender of Rammas can have the same, and to top it off - he is in the same sphere with rainment.

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Tactics attachments:

 

Dwarven Axe -- 1 cost at least makes it competitive with Dwarrowdelf Axe, though the damage requirement still makes it slightly inferior for a non-Gimli dwarf.  However, it does make it more attractive to non-dwarves (at least the warriors).  Good changes.

Elven Spear -- removes a Noldor discount vector, and benefits only from the same-phase other discards, but by maintaining a base +1 attack is at least usable when you run out of cards.

Blade of Gondolin -- I like that it adds its attack even without orcs, but I don't like the Noldor/warrior restriction.  Yes, Gondolin was an elvish city, but the three named blades we have in the text from Gondolin are all borne by non-elf, and all but Thorin are non-warriors.

 

Note that by changing Dwarven Axe and Blade of Gondolin to require trait/warriors, the number of tactics weapons for non-warrior attackers (barring a trait match), is the Dagger of Westernessee.  I like thematic linking, but the core set probably should be biased towards attachments that can be used for all heroes for practical reasons.

Edited by dalestephenson

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I guess we think differently, thats good. I feel thou that gondor should be the bulwark of the west therfore it should have descent defenders (outside of beregond or blood of numenor) they dont, you dont think so. Also i still feel that Gondor is underdeveloped i remember an episode from the grey company saying that gondor lacks "glue cards" i agree thou i feel its a bit better today but not by much. Therefor i wanted to make a glue card, thats my reasoning, and thematically a white tower watchman should be an elite guard and therefore warant a good defense. 

 

Also Defender of rivendell decks wants to discard so its not really a big thing and they also have an easier time to make their allies better with attachments and events than gondor has.

Have you seen the updated Guard of the Citade? :)

 

 

 

Yes and dont like it, with sword-thrain he could have 4 defence + 1 from Rainment of war=thats potentially 5 defence and 4 hp for a 2 cost ally that is a bit strong even for me wishing to improve gondor decks. Edited Defender of ramas could have 5/3 so im not sure..

 

Doesn't makes sense to me. You say Gondor lacks good defenders and should have them, I give you one, and you don't like that :o

 

Yes, defender of Rammas can have the same, and to top it off - he is in the same sphere with rainment.

 

I feel that if you say a defence +1 for each gondor hero maximum of three he would be okay you can still make him a 4/4 thats really god i feel that tactics should have the upper hand in attack and defense over leadership just my preference

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Note that by changing Dwarven Axe and Blade of Gondolin to require trait/warriors, the number of tactics weapons for non-warrior attackers (barring a trait match), is the Dagger of Westernessee.  I like thematic linking, but the core set probably should be biased towards attachments that can be used for all heroes for practical reasons.

I was actually referring to the core set contents while designing those. 3 out of 3 tactics heroes from core set are warriors, and in other spheres there is 1 warrior in each.

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Other tactics attachments:

 

Keeping Count:  I like the "search for another" mechanism.  That's the achilles heel of Keeping Count, and losing the hypothetical top-end rewards and paying 1 resource instead of zero is a small price to pay.

Horn of Gondor: By "discarding or destroyed" it's as thematic as the official nerf, but way more useful even with the 1/phase limit.  Adding 1 wp to the hero as well is sweet.

Gondorian Fire: limit 1, a +3 max attack bonus.  This is a dramatic nerf, but is it still worthwhile to set up a pay-1 for +3 attack with 3 resources kept in reserve?  It can be, but it's certainly much much less attractive.  But is it more interesting?  Not sure.  Not to me, at least.

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Note that by changing Dwarven Axe and Blade of Gondolin to require trait/warriors, the number of tactics weapons for non-warrior attackers (barring a trait match), is the Dagger of Westernessee.  I like thematic linking, but the core set probably should be biased towards attachments that can be used for all heroes for practical reasons.

I was actually referring to the core set contents while designing those. 3 out of 3 tactics heroes from core set are warriors, and in other spheres there is 1 warrior in each.

True, but the attacker in leadership isn't going to be warrior Theodred, who usually quests, but non-warrior Aragorn with his 3 attack and self-readying.

 

Maybe Blade of Gondolin could be +1A for any hero, but +2A against orcs for Silvan/Noldor?

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Swift Strike -- minor buff for warriors, and I think it needs a buff -- it's a useful event, but other direct damage is cheaper.

Quick Strike -- this is one of the most powerful events already, giving it -2 defense makes it better than Feint IMO.

Stand together -- adding direct damage in addition to combined defense makes it comparable to Hail of Stones at a cheaper cost (but a different target).  I like it.

Blade Mastery -- 0-cost readying and a boost for the low cost of exhausting a weapon.  Better than Hold Your Ground or Behind Strong Walls.

Rain of Arrows -- I'm torn on this one.  One of the few benefits of the original version is that you don't need to wait until the enemy attacks, so with weak or weakened enemies it can actually save defenses.  This lets you do more direct damage if you've got the ranged characters free, but by doing it after the attacks have already taken place, the actual difference from the effect and using them as ranged attackers may not amount to much.  I think the new version is more situationally useful, but I'm not sure I'd include it in a deck anyways.

 

And the few neutral cards:

 

Gandalf -- nerfed for Sneak Attack.  The new-and-improved Sneak Attack takes away some of the sting, but I'd sorely miss the combo in leadership decks.  I like the secrecy add.

Boot from Erebor -- Weather-stained cloak provides most of the same coverage and costs 0 (though requires questing), and isn't popular.  I think this would see no use at all on dwarves, but hobbits are squishy enough that they might want this.  The original I *have* used on dwarves, specifically Gimli.

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Blade of Gondolin serves different purpose - progress. It can't have more than 1 attack.  And enemy dependability is a territory I'm trying to leave, not return back to.

A fair point, though in the case of Blade of Gondolin there's a strong thematic reason for it to be more effective against orcs.  I can accept that 2 attack is too much, combined with the progress with destruction, for a one-cost attachment.  But I also think there's a need for more than Dagger of Westernessee that can be attached to any hero.

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Some I love, some I dislike because they mess with cards I already like as is, some are OP, all are interesting. I would say your design abilities are improving noticeably. I think the one trend I almost universally loved was adding valour effects to old cards. I don't think there was one I didn't like. Makes me wish they had valour from the beginning.

Care to elaborate at least a little? :)

Well, you and I have a fundamental aesthetic difference in that I love items for specific characters and you despise them. So, I won't bother bringing those points up, except that I did not approve of the change that made it so Arod cannot go on ally Legolas. In general there needs to be more cool attachments on allies, not less, particularly unique allies. I do think you found a perfect compromise in dropping restricted for specific character. If you and I were in charge of LOTR I would be able to agree to that. It works pretty well.

You mount restriction of one per charcter is an absolute no brainer. Most of the time I self impose it anyway (and I am NOT a thematic player). It's just that dumb to have multiple mounts on a character.

Most of your power level "fixes" (nerfing OP or strengthening unerplayed) were subtle and effective. I like how you changed power in the earth, although it STILL might not be good enough. I thought Bombur was overall a good change, but I would still be okay with a bonus for "underground" locations, like "if it is an underground location draw a card". I think, in general, there should be more effort to reward elf tribe location control on "forest" locations and dwarf tribe on "underground" or "mountain" locations, but as an added bonus (so you can still run it on quests without those kinds of locations). It enhances the sense of place the game has as a strength.

I will say again, I love the added valour abilities on old cards. I think I liked lore Glorfindel the best. I liked what you did thematically with the eagle tribe. I was not sure about Eagles of Misty Mountains. I can understand why you made the change. With your version the Eagles can actually go out and come back (because they don't get attached). That is good. I just think the one time boost is not good enough. In fact, I might like it if the eagles could gain a resource when another eagle left play and get a stat boost from each resource, but that sounds so OP that it probably wouldn't work. I just like the permanent stat boost instead of one round.

I didn't like change to boots of erebor because it was too much like weather stained cloak.

I'm sure there was more, but I can't remember. That's what you get for now.

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And just to chime in on the discussion, I think that Gondor, as a tribe, should be famous for lock down defense. It fits them is so many ways. In fact, I have always thought that Leadership Boromir should have give bonus +1 attack and +1 defense, to make him the Gondor's equivalent to Dain. That may have been OP but it would have made Gondor decks super fun and flavorful (and almost as good as dwarf decks). So, I basically think Gondor can't get enough defense. That's just my two cents.

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Lore

 

-Glorfindel. Fantastic redesign. Even without the valour response it is a simple but great redesign. Even with great stats his threat cost is very high so being able to heal a single point of damage each round for free is a fitting ability. I honestly think he is really great even without the valour response but I just LOVE how thematic and cool that ability is so I can't say a bad thing about it! His free inbuilt healing combined with Elrond allows you to run little to no healing player cards as you already have strong free healing available (2 per round for free is pretty **** decent especially in solo). This gives you more room to include other cards in your deck which is always good.
-Mirlonde. Again a great redesign for a hero that really needs it. To me the original version of Mirlonde is nigh unplayable. This version is not only playable but fairly good in a Silvan or Mono-lore deck. Minus 3 to starting threat and that nice response as well. Perhaps her response ability should only ready her though? Letting it ready any Silvan Hero might be a bit too good and readying her makes sense because it means you can use her to quest then attack getting the most out of her 2/2/1/3 statline. We need more characters with the scout trait and I hate heroes with only one trait so I like this addition too.

-Bilbo. Perhaps only 1 less threat considering his draw ability has been improved to any player. At 7 threat + the new version of his ability he is pretty fantastic. Then again he does have very average stats (2 def is wasted and 1 attack sucks, even 2 willpower is only ok) so perhaps the lower threat and better ability together are still balanced. I have never played this hero so have no idea to be honest.
-Gildor. Oh man why couldn't Gildor have been printed like this.... I have actually grown to really dislike Gildor.... I used to absolutely LOVE his card but that has faded. So his ability needs you to exhaust him yet he has absolutely awesome stats... as well as that Imladris Stargazer has a very similar effect and is very cheap to play. This means that the vast majority of games I do not use his ability at all and all he does is quest for 3 or occasionally defend with 3 (he is still amazing just boring and not used to his full potential). You can obviously combo his ability with Vilya to play something from your hand for free which admittedly can actually be really great if you end up with an great but expensive card in your hand and Vilya in play. With resource acceleration through Arwen though I can usually play whatever is in my hand fairly quickly and can then play a card of my choice for free with Vilya as well with the Stargazer.
So essentially his ability is rarely if ever necessary thanks to Stargazer and the fact that I usually need his 3 willpower far more than I need his ability. This version you have created is absolutely amazing. Rather than being able to use his ability per turn it only triggers the once but you don't need to exhaust him for it to trigger he just needs to enter play. I like that you only get to draw one and have to discard another and put the third back on your deck. Ties in with Noldor discard, still provides a tiny amount of scry (only the top card but still!) and draws you a card of your choice from the three. Maybe giving him the ability to be played from your discard is a bit much... I do really like this and he does cost 5 like Glorfindel and has similar amazing stats. The only issue is that his second ability will trigger again if he is destroyed/discarded then played again from your discard which is obviously your intent but as neat as this is perhaps this is a bit too good? Don't get me wrong I love the redesign as is but perhaps he is just that little tiny bit too strong. **** do I wish the actual Gildor only triggered his ability upon entering play and didn't require exhausting.....

 

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Regarding Gildor - it always baffled me how such powerful stat box at such high price had such weak self-exhausting action. The only time I ever used his ability... I don't know, that one time when I didn't wanted to overquest for some reason and there was no enemies around.

 

As for his playability from discard pile... how frequently do you think you can play a 5 cost unique ally? It's one and 2/3 worth of turns in lore resources. Not to mention you need to play other stuff too.

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Spirit Heroes:

 

Love Pippin.  Pippin's ability has no synergy with the all-hobbit deck it requires, but by reducing the threat penalty and allowing it to work all the time, he actually can be useful.

 

Glorfindel's adjustment is inspired -- he's still extremely useful as a secrecy enabler, but no longer serves as a threat lower for power decks.  Plus he's not tied at the hip to Light of Valinor any more.

 

Dwalin's loss of linkage to orcs makes him far more usable, if a bit less flavorable.  Increasing his wp and threat by one makes him more versatile, but also works against his attack-to-lower-threat ability.

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Spirit allies:

 

Lorien Guide badly needed the buff, and 2 wp + progress on active location actually makes him worth the three.  Lowering 2 threat from leaving play (with a Silvan hero) is extremely powerful for Silvan decks, it seems almost too strong to me.

 

Westfold Horse Breaker -- I like making a thematic connection to mounts, but the problem is that by slapping a Limit 1 and restricted on all the mount cards, you can't afford to put anything but the perfect mount on a hero anymore.  And requiring a mount for his hero-readying abilities make his discard substantially weaker.

 

Not in the spirit ally section is Westfold Horse Breeder.  With the new mount scheme, I see her value and Elfhelm hero's value reduced.

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Spirit Mounts:

 

Hobbit Pony has become restricted and limit 1, even though the text has five hobbit ponies for four hobbits.  There's no corresponding buff, it's a strictly worse card, and it goes from a useful to useless card for TaMerry.  I know I'm in the minority in not being bothered by multiple mounts, but you do plan on introducing Limit 1 weapon on all the weapons cards as well?  Still, I think the killer here *isn't* the limit 1 mount, it's slapping the restricted label on it for no good reason.

 

Snowmane was already restricted (except for Theoden), and the +1 wp just makes it better.  Ignoring the universal mount changes, it's strictly better.  I'd pay 2 for this.

 

Steed of Imladris also was already restricted, which I thought was annoying, but since it's questing focused that's usually not such an impediment.  The willpower buff when discarding makes it strictly better, but given the discard cost I don't think it's overpowered at one.

 

Steed of the Mark has acquired restricted, which severely hurts its value -- if you're paying to ready after questing, it means you want to fight, and you'll want those restricted slots for combat attachments.  Adding a wp buff when readying is nice, but I think the current card is better, even with a 1 mount limit.

 

I realize I skipped the Damrod ally in my last post.  A willpower/hp buff is good for a 4-cost ally who wasn't that tough in combat.  I'm still not sure I'd use him outside a Caldara deck, but he's at least worthy of consideration.

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Other spirit attachments:

 

Favor of the Lady -- cheaper cost with a questing limitation makes it a good value generally, even if slightly less useful to Theoden/Eowyn hijinks.  The discard ability is a little odd, though, since you're at the mercy of the encounter deck for that ever triggering.  I'd like the rework better if it stayed at 2/+1wp, but had an action where it could be discarded for some effect better than +1 card.

 

Ever My Heart Rises -- the original is a bargain in mountain/underground quests with dwarf heroes, and useless elsewhere.  This one is useful in any deck, even if no dwarf is available to ready.  But who is the "you" who reduces the threat by 3?  I think that should be the "first player", or be conditional on dwarf hero readying and reduce the threat on that player.

 

Nor Am I Stranger -- the +1 card is badly needed, and puts it on a par with In Service of the Steward.

 

Power in the Earth -- much better than the unplayable original.  I like it.

 

Blood of Numenor -- mightly nerfed, along the lines of Gondorian Fire.  Still worth it?  Maybe.  It's a substantial investment, but +defense is more important than +offense IMO, and it still doesn't take a restricted spot.

 

Ring of Barahir -- I miss the thematic connection to Aragorn, but restricting it entirely to Dunedain/Noldor is better than allowing it on anyone.  The main effect is underwhelming for 2 (let's face it, it's usually underwhelming at 1), but does the ability to discard a copy for +2/+2/+2 save it?  IMO, no.  You have to play an overpriced Barahir for 2, and draw the other one for it even to come up, and it's main value just isn't good enough to justify 3x.  I like the idea of having an item be able to use its unplayable copies for something cool, but I think it needs to be something worth playing in the first place.

 

Hobbit Pipe -- +1 wp makes this card worth having and playing.  I like it.

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Spirit events:

 

Late Adventurer -- +2 wp buff and -1 threat if it's a hobbit?  I'd pay 1 for this, 0 seems too cheap for the effect.

 

Mustering the Rohirrim -- I love combining the search effect with a sneak-attackish questing.  Nicely done.  I don't think the expanded search range of the original justified the 1-cost compared to similar search cards.

 

Stand and Fight -- I love dropping the clarifying text that justified the ridiculous no-Gandalf ruling.

 

Smoke Rings -- cost reduction to 1 was sorely needed, but what helps this event the most is making Hobbit Pipes more playable.

 

We Do Not Sleep -- weaker (requires successful questing), but *vastly* cheaper.  Too good?

 

Will of the West -- adding to victory display instead of removing from the game is consistent with other play-once cards, and enables Keen as Lances.  I like the change.

 

Untroubled by Darkness -- loses the thematic underground/dark connection, but the +2 hero/+1 ally is a nice compromise with the original.

 

Small target -- much, much more powerful.  I like this better than Feint even with the hobbit exhaustion requirement.  I'd pay 2 for this.

 

Strength of Will -- very different effect from the original, but certainly useful.  I like it.

 

A Light in the Dark -- A lot more usable than the original, with the -2 threat mitigating the threat from putting it back in staging.  Still expensive to avoid an attack, but more palatable.  Losing the -2 threat after a successful quest seems reasonable and interesting.

 

Renewed Friendship -- I like this a lot.  The original has too narrow eligibility to be very useful, even aside from it being so alturistic, while with this one helping others first may come back to help you.

 

And I see I forgot Unexpected Courage in the attachments.  Straight nerf of limit 1 -- while it downgrades UC, I don't see this is a painful nerf, it's still very useful with a 1-limit and it's still a rare card in the first place.

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Favor of the Lady - you're actually not. There is plenty of Condition discarding player cards, and Favor of the Lady so happens to be a Condition.

 

Ever My Heart Rises - "you" is the owner of an attachment.

 

Ring of Barahir - this one was one of those crazy things I warned about. I'll think about something more reasonable.

 

We Do Not Sleep - refer to the Lure of Moria which readies all dwarves anywhere anywhen for just 1 more reasource in a sphere that is richer with resources than spirit. 

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Condition discarders:

 

Lore-2 ally Miner of the Iron Hills (discard a condition)

Spirit-0 (doomed 2) event Power of Orthanc

Lore-1 attachment Athelas, requires exhaustion of Dunedain/Healer and only discards condition of the healed character.

Lore-3 one-round ally Elrond, can discard a condition (or each draw a card, or heal a hero)

 

Yes, these player cards *could* be used to remove Favor of the Lady, assuming you thought trading a permanent +1wp for a single card was a good deal.  But they would *never* be included in a deck for that purpose.  The only same sphere option is Power of Orthanc, and that card is 100% sideboard for nasty quest conditions -- even if there was a good discarding payoff, you wouldn't pay 2 doomed to trigger it when the encounter deck is looming, and absent nasty quest conditions you'd never want it taking space in your deck.

 

It's not impossible that one of those would trigger -- a Power of Orthanc to get rid of a nasty condition for Deck 1 would allow an unafflicted Deck 2 to discard, a dwarf deck (or limited pool) might play Miner for its stats, and Athelas could be used to heal someone who just happened to have Favor of the Lady attached -- but those cases are going to be even rarer than attachment-hate quests, because the payoff isn't worth discarding intentionally anyway.

 

I'm not opposed in principle to a benefit-from-discarding item that can be triggered by attachment hate, which could make a useful sideboard card for certain quests.  But that's pretty niche, and putting it on Favor of the Lady makes no sense to me.

 

I don't like "you" for cards placed in the staging area, since attachments there are not controlled by a particular player.  I think "each player" or "first player" are better choices for player benefit.  All location attachments that currently grant singular benefits do so to the first player, why change for Ever my Heart Rises?

 

You're right about Lure of Moria, and at 3 spirit Lure of Moria would be strictly better.  With that said, this *also* readies all Rohan characters everywhere, and 2-spirit is cheaper than 3 leadership IMO.  The questing successfully does differentiate and justify the lower cost, but it's an easily met hurdle, so I like your We Do Not Sleep better than Lure of Moria.  Dwarves do have a bigger tribe than Rohan, but Rohan can also expand their ranks to Gondor (and vice versa) with a 0-cost event.  In any case, your event is worlds better than the ridiculously expensive current version of We Do Not Sleep.

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Lore heroes:

 

Lore Glorfindel -- much more powerful, one time death-avoidance and free healing, coupled with the changes to SpGlorfindel, could make this the more popular of the two.  I like it, I don't think LoGlorfindel is a bad hero, just a thoroughly overshadowed one.  I do find it funny that neither LoGlorfindel nor Elrond hero have the Healer trait, though there's no room for it.

 

Mirlonde -- Mirlonde as is is a servicable hero within her niche, as 5 threat cost for her stats is great value in mono-lore, even if she's otherwise unexciting.  Expanding her discount to silvan heroes makes her equally serviceable in a wider variety of builds, which I like -- but that ability is bonkers in a Silvan deck, especially for a 5-threat hero who doesn't totally stink.  Maybe if she readied a Silvan *ally* instead?  I do like that she now has scout.

 

Bilbo -- Much more powerful.  Half a Beravor without the exhaustion, and the upgrade to 2 wp is a big deal for such a fragile defender.  A very good hero at seven threat, though not so powerful that I think he needs to be at 8.

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Lore allies:

 

Gildor Inglorion: You're right that his original ability (requiring exhaustion) is a poor match for his high cost and hefty stats.  I like his original ability better than Imaldris Stargazer, but the cost is prohibitive.  Being able to play from the discard is a nice Noldor nod, as is his enters play ability.  Yet I wish Gildor had an ongoing ability to make him more interesting once in play.  If his original ability were weaker, but didn't require exhaustion I think he'd be better.  Like a living Wizard Pipe.

 

Bombur:  a generic -2 threat instead of generic -1, with unlimited underground...  I think this makes Bombur more generally useful, but less likely to see use.  Before Bombur actually could be cost-justified in underground-heavy quests that could make him effectively contribute 3-5 to the quest.  But the revised version gives him a max of 2, if there's a location, which is a tough sell for 3-cost.  (Yes, he's a 2/3 defender, but as you know I think of a 2/3 ally as a two-hit chump.) Ghan-Buri-Ghan can *eliminate* a location's threat for two resources with a bonus discard ability.  Sure Bombur's a dwarf, but as an expensive dwarf he's not a get-to-five asset, and as a 0-wp 0-attack ally he's not a prime Dain target either.

 

But given the precedent of Ghan-Buri-Ghan, maybe at 3 cost he could be a mini-Argalad for locations.  His exhaust ability could reduce a location's threat *by his defense*, and add 1 progress to it if it got to 0 threat.  Now that'd be worth three cost, and also justify putting a couple Ring Mail on him to turn him into a decent defender.

 

Master of Lore -- being able to reduce Gondor as well as Lore is surely an enhancement to the poor nerfed fellow, and the attack/defense restriction isn't costly for someone with so little ability at either.  My question -- why retain the minimum cost of 1?  Since it only works once, what's the problem with reducing a 1-cost to zero?  That's a hold-over from the pre-errata days that no longer serves a purpose, IMO.

 

Daughter of Nimrodel -- being able to heal a character instead of just a hero and having 2 wp to quest with makes her an alternative to Warden of Healing, which she isn't now.  Leaves play ability is gravy, but I like the Silvan synergy.

 

Ravenhill Scout -- I like this change.  Progress moving can be situationally useful, but not worth exhaustion on a 3-cost who has no real other functionality.  Making it a quest side effect and giving him 2 wp when it whiffs makes him viable, and far from overpowered.

 

Erebor Hammersmith -- making his ability "enters play" is a modest enhancement, but definitely worthwhile.

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