Snapshot - does it count as a secondary?

[Papamambo 339]

I'm having an argument with folks from my league. One person says it counts as a secondary weapon, and thus Rhymers ability can affect it. Another says it is not, but is more akin to Corran Horns double tap but takes place in the activation phase rather than the end phase.

Who's right?

[digitalbusker 2,248]

It is a secondary weapon, and Major Rhymer's ability will affect it.

A secondary weapon is defined as an upgrade card with an Attack header. The fact that this particular one has a special rule that might allow it to be fired in the Activation phase sometimes doesn't change the fact that it's a secondary weapon.

[DailyRich 3,346]

Which means no Inquisitor fun always being at Range 1 with it..

[Papamambo 339]

It just seems odd with this being an ability rather than a tangible 'thing' like hot-shot blaster for example.

[digitalbusker 2,248]

It just seems odd with this being an ability rather than a tangible 'thing' like hot-shot blaster for example.

Oh, it's all kinds of odd, but it's definitely still a secondary weapon. They could have made it not be, if they'd wanted to.

[EdgeOfDreams 1,711]

 

It just seems odd with this being an ability rather than a tangible 'thing' like hot-shot blaster for example.

Oh, it's all kinds of odd, but it's definitely still a secondary weapon. They could have made it not be, if they'd wanted to.

 

 

Indeed. I think making it a secondary weapon is a very deliberate choice - it applies a bunch of restrictions and denies several potential combos without needing to have a ton of text crammed onto the card. Notably...

 

• It only works in your primary arc.
• There is no range bonus.
• The limited range and set number of attack die are set by the numbers on the right side, rather than needing to be specified in text.
• Many cards that only work with primary weapons don't apply to it (e.g. R3 Astromech, Expose, Finn, Adv. Targeting Computer)

If it was not a secondary weapon, to get the same effect, you'd have to have the text be something like. "After an enemy ship executes a maneuver, if it is in your primary firing arc at Range 1, you may perform a primary weapon attack against it. Treat your attack value as 1 for this attack. You cannot modify your attack dice for this attack and cannot attack again this phase." That changes the word count on the card from 31 to 51.

[Papamambo 339]

But does it need to be in arc?  Nowhere on the card does it state needing to be in arc..

 

"After an enemy ship performs a maneuver, you may perform this attack against that ship.  ATTACK: Attack 1 ship.You cannot modify your attack dice and cannot attack again this phase."  Most cards that have an arc restriction will state that the defender must be in arc..  This would be a great option for Rebel and Imperial ships that cannot equip a hotshot blaster.

[EdgeOfDreams 1,711]

But does it need to be in arc?  Nowhere on the card does it state needing to be in arc..

 

"After an enemy ship performs a maneuver, you may perform this attack against that ship.  ATTACK: Attack 1 ship.You cannot modify your attack dice and cannot attack again this phase."  Most cards that have an arc restriction will state that the defender must be in arc..  This would be a great option for Rebel and Imperial ships that cannot equip a hotshot blaster.

 

Yes, it does need to be in arc. The card doesn't need to say it because Secondary Weapons are restricted to in-arc only by default. Notice how every secondary weapon torpedo and missile card says nothing about needing to be in arc? Yet the general rule that secondary weapons must be in-arc applies to all of them. It applies the same way to Snap Shot.

 

To put it another way - the default assumption for attacks is that they must be in arc. Every attack that lets you shoot at something not in your arc explicitly says so - Turret secondary weapons, turret primaries, and Hot Shot Blaster. Snap Shot doesn't give you permission to fire outside your arc, therefore it is restricted to in-arc.

Edited September 21, 2016 by EdgeOfDreams

[StevenO 2,996]

I believe a comparison could be made between Snapshot and Hot Shot Blaster.  Both could deal damage outside of the combat phase but look at how they are similar but different.  HSB specifically calls out making at attack that can be outside of the primary ark while Snapshot has no such reference. 

Edited September 22, 2016 by StevenO

[ObiWonka 7,081]

Hot Shot Blaster is outside of combat phase?

[digitalbusker 2,248]

I believe a comparison could be made between Snapshot and Hot Shot Blaster.  Both could deal damage outside of the combat phase but look at how they are similar but different.  HSB specifically calls out making at attack that can be outside of the primary ark while Snapshot has no such reference.

 

 

Hot Shot Blaster is outside of combat phase?

No, it's not.

[Vineheart01 6,403]

Hot Shot is a failsafe attack, not a free attack. Its for when you didnt get arc but theyre right next to you, while Snapshot is a free attack if theyre infront of you. Way different cards.

 

Anything rolling red dice in an attack thats NOT your primary weapon is a secondary weapon. There is literally no other rule Snapshot could follow if its not a secondary. The rules dont specify Missiles, Turrets, Torpedos, and Cannons are secondary weapons, it says upgrade cards with the Attack header and nothing else (other than how they work). Therefore, its a secondary attack and follows the usual rules a Cannon, Torp, or Missile would (turrets have their own blip for out of arc). And before someone mentions Bombs, they are not a secondary weapon because 1) they have no Attack header and 2) it actually specifically says in the rules they arent.

[StevenO 2,996]

Hot Shot Blaster is outside of combat phase?

 

Oops, my mistake.  I was originally looking at Feedback Array as an illicit that can deal damage but then saw HSB and somehow read "Attack" as "Action" which I guess shows just how much I use it.  I new better but guess I wasn't thinking as clearly as I should have been.

 

The intended take away is still that if you make an attack it needs to be in your primary firing arc unless something is specifically saying otherwise.

 

Now to go and make an edit.

[Zefirus 435]

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/40/b4/40b44d5f-7a06-406c-ae6e-183c5297e796/swx36_rulesreference.pdf

 

Page 16.

 

 

Secondary weapons are upgrades that feature the “Attack:” header in their card text. They provide additional types of attack other than a ship’s primary weapon.