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Sciencius

Tie/SF's how many are you buying? and what are the best lists?

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I bought two. And I don't regret it. I'm having a lot of fun with this LIST (popular meta be damned!):

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v4!s!209:27,36,-1,187:42:-1:;208:170,36,-1,187:42:-1:;28:18:5:15:M.5&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

 

Sidenotes:

 

* Sensor Cluster + Saving Focus for Defense is a MUST. This ship is garbage if it melts in 1 pass. It must TANK up on first pass to get in position for Double-Taps and "Backdraft" Crits.

* A small-base, slow jouster with 1-Forward is new territory for Imperial Builds, and it must be utilized from Turn-0 onwards.

* Fire-Control System is a must. Do not take the Baffle-cheese.

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Ehhh im not going to discount Sensor Cluster yet but in my 3 games on Wednesday and 2 on Friday i had like...1? situation where i actually could use the clusters.

 

Seemed like every time i rolled i either had a focus and: rolled double evade (well...ok then), rolled double focus, rolled 1 focus 1 blank, or 1 focus 1 evade -- while the few times i didnt have the focus i rolled double blanks. Fml.

 

Right now there isnt any competition for the slot though. Weapons Guidance is all around bad and Comms doesnt work for them. Once HotR comes out though we'll have Primed Thrustors and Pattern Analyzers. I am currently intending to swap Cluster for Analyzer so i can actually USE those 2pts i put there. Also stop worrying about no action to do this red move so i can avoid bumping and get a rear shot (which happens quite a bit apparently)

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Why no one is thinking PTL+Baffle or Rage+Baffle on Quickdraw? Sounds great to me, shooting in the activation phase when I want.

Because against palp defenders and scouts it's not that great, it's a one trick pony useful only against fel.

 

 

It can have a special utility against Fel, but even if you move last, putting 2 3-4 dice attacks on a target with re-rolls and a Focus for support, and maybe even some rear shots is pretty strong against a lot of things.

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Personally, DTF actually sounds pretty good on her.

 

Reason: 3 shields and an ability that REALLY deters you from shooting at her unless either A) she already used her ability or B) you think you can reliably take all the shields out.

 

The one quickdraw i faced so far never, ever got her ability off. She got some pretty annoying range1 shots because i was deliberately ignoring her and going after Inqy/Vess but thats not as mean as firing twice even at range2. After i removed his other ships it was my 2 generic SFs vs her, and i managed to potshot her from the side TWICE with no shot for her :D

If he had DTF on there, she would have soaked Backdraft's autocrit (before he died anyway) and fired at range1 twice. Probably kill one of my ships in the process. Yeah she loses the mighty EPT potential but thats the tradeoff.

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Ion pulse might be good for setting up accuracy-corrector'd double taps.

Homing missile and cuncussin are of course effective standbys, but expensive (especially if Lightened Frame really makes the SF work, thus denying GC)

Thread Tracers might actually be the best option for a non-FCS SF, if they ever exist.

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Ion Pulse is just a good Missile in general, so I could see using that one if you have points to spare. Between the TL and Chips, you should be getting 3 hits most of the time. Not enough for an ace, but pretty useful against PalpShuttles, both sides of Dengaroo, Miranda, Torp Scouts Dash, Ghosts, and any T70s that prove competitive.

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Why no one is thinking PTL+Baffle or Rage+Baffle on Quickdraw? Sounds great to me, shooting in the activation phase when I want.

Because against palp defenders and scouts it's not that great, it's a one trick pony useful only against fel.

 

It can have a special utility against Fel, but even if you move last, putting 2 3-4 dice attacks on a target with re-rolls and a Focus for support, and maybe even some rear shots is pretty strong against a lot of things.

That's overly optimistic mate to think she'll last long enough to get into range one and still have shields left.

Seriously you don't even have to kill her just score three hits and turn her ability off.

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Why no one is thinking PTL+Baffle or Rage+Baffle on Quickdraw? Sounds great to me, shooting in the activation phase when I want.

Because against palp defenders and scouts it's not that great, it's a one trick pony useful only against fel.

 

It can have a special utility against Fel, but even if you move last, putting 2 3-4 dice attacks on a target with re-rolls and a Focus for support, and maybe even some rear shots is pretty strong against a lot of things.

That's overly optimistic mate to think she'll last long enough to get into range one and still have shields left.

Seriously you don't even have to kill her just score three hits and turn her ability off.

 

 

Well, they have to not shoot at something.  If it's not Quickdraw you can get close for max damage, if they're focusing on Quickdraw, someone else drops the hammer.  I think you've got to run her with other high offense ships for that reason, though.  I mean, Quickdraw/Fel is probably a bad combo, because when Fel is dancing around getting position the other squad can wreck QD.  Even if Fel goes hard in, the other squad can probably just take those shots.  More offense ships can make use of that, though.

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Anybody have any ideas for Missiles on SFs? I'm inclined to avoid them, because I think they need to stay cheaper, but curious if anybody has any good experiences or ideas.

I mean, I won't say it's a great way to spend the points, but fcs guidance chips and I guess cluster missiles. Turn order is something like focus, shoot, fcs -> focus, cluster missile, profit? Probably (?) won't light the world on fire, but the ept generic can do it at ps 7, or 6 if you want to make it cheap. 31 points feels like alot though.

Edited by BleakSquadron

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Just one, so I can do Rage/Baffle Quickdraw.

 

Played this last night; it's a one (albeit nice) trick pony.  Because after that, you're down to two shields behind two greens and you'll probably lose 'em both that turn.

 

In related news, getting stuck at R1 of two Fang Fighters with Title and Fearlessness sucks major balls.

Edited by Dr Zoidberg

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Just one, so I can do Rage/Baffle Quickdraw.

 

Played this last night; it's a one (albeit nice) trick pony.  Because after that, you're down to two shields behind two greens and you'll probably lose 'em both that turn.

 

In related news, getting stuck at R1 of two Fang Fighters with Title and Fearlessness sucks major balls.

 

It does hit pretty **** hard though. I took 5 health off of Ventress before the rest of my squad even attacked. Im thinking a nice Shield upgrade is worth 4pts for that initial double attack, and gives you an opportunity for another double attack with 3 shields remaining.

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Two versions of the TIE/sf I've played so far. Both "Backdraft" just because he gives the best offensive efficiency from front or back.

 

Build 1

"Backdraft"

- Fire Control System

- Sensor Cluster (will probably trade out for Pattern Analyzer when that's released).

- Twin Ion Engine Mk.II

 

Build #1 was a pretty obvious build, but it worked just as well as I'd hoped. Best part was when my opponent put his TIE Defender in "Backdraft's" rear arc at range one. He continually ion cannoned "Backdraft", which kept the Defender at range one. Needless to say, despite the hits my TIE/sf was taking, he chewed up that TIE Defender.

 

I may try this build with "Quickdraw" once Pattern Analyzer comes out to see if I can turn my TIE/sf into a bit of an arc dodger. Really might surprise some people how maneuverable that thing will be when it doesn't have to worry about stress until after it's taken it's actions.

 

Build 2

"Backdraft"

- Predator

- Sensor Jammer

- Sensor Cluster

- Twin Ion Engine Mk.II

 

Build #2 ended up being quite a tank. While it did kind of suck to force myself to save my focuses for defense every time I was in arc of an enemy ship, Predator helped balance out the offensive capabilities a bit more. With sensor jammer and sensor cluster together, my opponent needed to be rolling at least 4 attack dice to put any damage on my sturdy little TIE/sf.

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So could wired see play with the new tie?

Oh man, with Wired and Pattern Analyzers, I realized that you are actually tougher on red move turns because you can get Evade as an action and get re-rolls on eyeballs. Then I realized that FOs are the only ship so far that can run this, and their tech is spoken for.

 

 

Meaning Comm Relay?

Edited by gamblertuba

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Last night I ran a dual SF list and even with the classic new list mistakes, it seemed pretty legit.

 

QUICKDRAW ACES

 

Quickdraw - 34

Push the Limit - 3

Electronic Baffle - 1

Mk2 Engine - 1

Title - 0

 

Backdraft - 31

Fire Control Systems - 2

Veteran Instincts

Mk2 Engine - 1

Title - 0

 

Darth Vader - 35

Advanced Targeting Computer - 5

Engine Upgrade - 4

Crackshot - 1

Tie Advanced Title - -4

 

The gameplay is simple. You setup QD to zoom in and drop a 3-4 dice attack in the activation phase, while Vader and Backdraft follow to help him deliver 3 more 3-4 dice attacks in the attack phase, all of which happens as PS9. I still need to workshop the approach (I'm so used to leaving Vader in back as a closer that I struggle to put him anywhere else) but if you can play your ranges correctly, you can delete a uboat from the board in the first round of shooting. I know there's a ticking clock on Quickdraw's ability but even at an almost guaranteed 5 hp, he can draw so much fire that he leaves Vader and Backdraft free to burn all their tokens on shooting.

The following rounds you then have Backdraft with Focus/TL and Vader also Focus/TL plus movement options and potentially a 3rd of your opponents list off the board. And since they're all at PS9 you can adjust flight patterns as necessary and guarantee that all of your ships will get to shoot at least once more (barring some bizarro multi PS 10 list). Plus, the utility of stripping shields to then allow two free crits to bounce off a ship's hull is nasty :)

The SF does fold under focused fire, but I cannot stress how potent it is to be able to drop 12-16 with mods at PS9. I made several egregious errors in the games I played (forgetting crackshot cost me a game and I kept forgetting FCS) and still either won or got my opponent down to one damaged ship. Backdraft is an excellent closer and as long as you can keep him alive, he'll really punish your opponent as they get into chase position. Vader's still a powerhouse and with crackshot to get in that crucial crit, he's another ship your opponent doesn't want to leave to the end. Of the 3, Quickdraw's the least potent in the end-game but his ability all but guarantees he gets focused down first so as long as you can make sure he does his points in damage, you'll be glad to have him in the list.

The list has one of the few good Imp Aces counters to Soontir outside of Carnor Jax and poses an excellent dilemma for other arc dodgers - do I give the list initiative and then watch QD ravage my tokenless aces or do I take it myself and then let 3 PS9s adjust after I move?

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I ran 2 specialists w/ crack, collision, cluster along 2 black cracks and wampa.

3 attack dice with Crack shot is nice, and 4 cracks plus wampa is a decent amount of offense. I did get to roll onto debris to get a double tap and kill, so that was nice.

This ship is so weird.

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So could wired see play with the new tie?

Oh man, with Wired and Pattern Analyzers, I realized that you are actually tougher on red move turns because you can get Evade as an action and get re-rolls on eyeballs. Then I realized that FOs are the only ship so far that can run this, and their tech is spoken for.

Meaning Comm Relay?

Yep.

Edited by Biophysical

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Here's a non-standard (if there is a standard yet) Quickdraw build.  I think it's an interesting alternative to PTL/Baffle, Rage/Baffle.  I'm pondering Predator/Baffle.  So there's no EPT-derived way to trigger Quickdraw's abilty, so you have to rely on secondary options, such as Baffling a red maneuver, taking damage, or Baffling a stress from a Debris Field.  It's clearly not as good at doing Quickdraw's signature move, but it still has decent access to it, and it's pretty strong in general use.  It operates differently in different conditions, but I'm not sure yet which conditions are the most important.  Note:  Everything I say here about Predator/Baffle could also apply to other passive offense buffs like Outmaneuver or Crack Shot.

 

Condition 1:  You're trying to shoot PS9/10 before they move (signature QD move):

      -You're restricted to taking red moves or going over debris fields to use the ability.  This is a significant drawback, but you still have the ability to use it in a lot of situations.  Since it's less obvious, your opponent might think about it less.

      -You don't have re-roll+Focus for the attack with Predator, because you don't take your action before you dump the stress with Baffles and take a damage to trigger Quickdraw, unless you also have Pattern Analyzers, but that's getting pretty expensive.

      -It is better at performing this move if a block is anticipated, because it has action-independent attack modifiers from Predator.

 

 

Condition 2:  You're looking for extra damage against a lower PS jouster by self-triggering Quickdraw's ability.  

          -It's still harder to trigger than PTL or Rage, still relying on red moves or Debris stress.

          -It does similar damage to PTL (1 re-roll on each attack + a Focus vs TL/Focus), but is slightly less flexible, because the Predator build doesn't get the Focus until after the first attack.

          -It does less damage than Rage, unless the target is PS2.  

          -It is better at pulling this move when blocked.  

         

Condition 3:  You're letting your opponent trigger Quickdraw's ability, i.e., flying more like a normal ship.

          -It hits almost as hard as a PTL equipped ship, but doesn't generate a stress or rely on actions.

          -It hits almost as hard as a Rage equipped ship, but doesn't generate 2 stress or rely on actions.

          -The flexibility of Predator as a passive buff is much more useful in this condition, because you're not incurring the costs of PTL or Rage without knowing if you'll get the payoff from using Quickdraw's ability.  

 

 

All of the advantages of Predator are enhanced if double-arc attack opportunities present themselves.

 

 

So if Quickdraw is worth taking without putting her ability front and center in the build, I think Predator is a pretty strong choice.  If you absolutely must maximize Quickdraw's ability to make her worth taking, then you probably want to opt for PTL or Rage, depending on points.  

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I like your suggestion Biophysical, I was thinking along the same lines but just with Lone Wolf instead of Predator. Ofcourse it has the addtional restriction of keeping distance to your other ships for it to trigger (so few other ships or keep them in a tight formation), but its 1 pt cheaper and also works on defence.

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Man, the spanish traductions of the named pilots...

 

Backdraft = Llamarada

Quickdraw = Centella

 

I mean, they are quite good, but after reading so much in this forum, they sound soooo strange...  :D

Maybe i have to get one english copy ....

 

Same here for the german versions. I don't even know there german translated names right now.

FFG should permit to translate pilot callsigns, unique ships titles and ship model names.

Especially translated callsigns read so strange and feel so wrong .... the best example still is Howlrunner - the german version is Kreischläufer - which would be Screamwalker, if you would translate that.

And Screamwalker is not Howlrunner.

 

I tend to buy english versions for this reason.

There are things you simply should not translate!

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