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iamfanboy

Sell me on FFG's game versus West End Games' Star Wars RPG.

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Well, 300 points will get you a complete talent tree, 20 + 80 will get you another tree plus the filling out the first two tiers, and the remainder on buying up six skills from zero to two - that's not an insignificant character. I wouldn't say the apex of where I would want to go with them - there's Signature Abilities, fun skills that aren't key to the concept, and I don't think I've ever had a character that could get away without a third tree - but as it stands now, that's a low end pretty complete character.

Edited by Desslok

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There are some types of games where I would still prefer D6. Most of these have to do with games that involve a good deal of vehicular action (an area that I feel the FFG does poorly) and none of them have to do with Force-using games (where the FFG does far better). Since most of what I play tends to have far more of the former than the latter, I still hold D6 in high regard.

 

Yes, vehicles were better...but to take a contrarian position, the fact that FFGs vehicular combat is sub-par has actually forced me to make better scenarios.  They're more exciting and fun, because it's basically a chase that doesn't last long.  A "good" system can lead to complacency where the combat system is really just a facade over a hit-point grind.

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There are some types of games where I would still prefer D6. Most of these have to do with games that involve a good deal of vehicular action (an area that I feel the FFG does poorly) and none of them have to do with Force-using games (where the FFG does far better). Since most of what I play tends to have far more of the former than the latter, I still hold D6 in high regard.

 

Yes, vehicles were better...but to take a contrarian position, the fact that FFGs vehicular combat is sub-par has actually forced me to make better scenarios.  They're more exciting and fun, because it's basically a chase that doesn't last long.  A "good" system can lead to complacency where the combat system is really just a facade over a hit-point grind.

 

I think that WEG did a great job of differentiating "hard to hit but fragile" from "broad side of a barn and just as tough" and this, along with using wound/damage levels rather than hit points, made it feel like less of a slog to me. If I'm going to play out a tense fight between four TIE fighters and the PCs' light freighter, I'm probably going to be happier if I do it in WEG. Using the FFG chase rules is fine, but there are times when the battle is the point, and FFG's system is fairly poor at that.

 

The other area where WEG is far superior in my mind is in the scaling rules. The FFG personal/planetary scaling doesn't even come close. In WEG, you can use an E-web to drop a speeder or a AT-ST, but in FFG the gulf between characters and almost anything Armor 2+ is insurmountable.

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8. Easiest system to GM I've ever played.

 

This. If you are the type of GM that does little to no preparation, this is absolutely the game for you. And I played in an rpg's where the GM let us do everything and play everything we could come up with and he didn't even flinch. We ended up as rainbow pirates with a zombiegirl captain, a vampire-schoolgirl first mate, a blind duelist and my character concept was "cyborg-pirate-ninja-jesus" and I think we fought timetravelling cthulu. (I only joined mid campaign and had to leave after a few months)

 

This doesn't mean that it doesn't benefit from preparation (Of course it does. Everything does.), but you can bullsith (hehe. he.) your way through this game like no other RPG that I know of with little to pretty much no pre-work. You don't even need to write up enemies. PC's want to  start a Cantina Brawl with local thug? Yeah, I described him as a mean beefcake, Brawn 4 and probably 2 ranks in Brawl, YYGG and I'm ready to roll. You want to buy some extra virgin Bantha Milk on Coruscant? Probably streetwise difficulty 4, 2 Setbacks because you are not in an area where it is likely to find it and 2 upgrades because it is definitly inappropriate to ask somebody for this on the subway.

And at the moment you (and your group) are comfortable with the system, making stuff up on the fly is easy-peazy for almost every single situation your players can come up with.

 

It's a diceless game masquerading as dice-based.

 

I know what you mean, but it is really not.

 

Everything

 

Kestin, you need to get that post pinned. You put clearly a LOT of effort into that post and I think it describes the game pretty well and that much effort should not be lost in any one thread but should be shared with a bigger part of the community. I don't know who pins threads or if you can link/pin a single post,

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And as a final word, if you are really curious: get a Beginners Game.

 

Even if you don't like the system it is not much money spent, and if you can keep your players from writing on the pre-printed player sheets (instead of crossing the talents use post-its) you can sell it or gift it to somebody else in your group. And even it they don't like the system it is a sneaky way to get people to become GM's.

 

The Beginners game are an amazing package, with follow up adventures that lasted my group all in all about 8 sessions. Resulty may vary, we had several players new to roleplaying and I embellished a lot of the scenes because the group went a bit off-track.

 

Also: You can just use regular dice and paint them if you don't want to use a table for converting the numbers into dice symbols.

 

Dice%2BConversion%2BChart.png

Edited by derroehre

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That was a lot of writing for such a relatively simple question.  Admittedly I didn't read it all but seems like most of the things where covered quite well.

 

One thing I can say is that the poster mentioned that it was 3 separate core books which is a poor assessment.  These are all stand alone games that cover different aspects of the Star Wars story. Every good system has expanded content, West End Games was no different, even now there are at least 3 times as many supplements for the West End Games version of Star Wars then FFG's version.

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I've GM'ed for a lot of different systems over the years, including Champions, DnD, Pathfinder, GURPS, and Mutants & Masterminds. Other people have mentioned the beauty of the narrative dice system, which is what sold me on this game. However, another aspect which surprised me is how well characters with different XP levels can still have fun together.

 

I'm in a weekly multi-GM campaign that just hit 2 years. We let people rotate in and out according to their availability. We also allow guests to try the system out with us, so we often have characters at 150xp and others at over 2,000. In Pathfinder, a mere 3 level difference completely removes most of the fun for lower level characters. In FFG's SWRPG, even low level characters can affect the situation in profound ways, and the narrative dice system allows everyone to shape the story, with only their imaginations as the limit! In fact, it's common for guests to be voted at the end of our sessions as either MIRP (most interesting RP'er) or even MVP.

 

I've never seen a system as flexible as this in terms of power level. Sure, any system can be broken with munchkinism, but if your group likes to RP and tell a story together, this system is the one!

Edited by verdantsf

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I've GM'ed for a lot of different systems over the years, including Champions, DnD, Pathfinder, GURPS, and Mutants & Masterminds. Other people have mentioned the beauty of the narrative dice system, which is what sold me on this game. However, another aspect which surprised me is how well characters with different XP levels can still have fun together.

 

I'm in a weekly multi-GM campaign that just hit 2 years. We let people rotate in and out according to their availability. We also allow guests to try the system out with us, so we often have characters at 150xp and others at over 2,000. In Pathfinder, a mere 3 level difference completely removes most of the fun for lower level characters. In FFG's SWRPG, even low level characters can affect the situation in profound ways, and the narrative dice system allows everyone to shape the story, with only their imaginations as the limit! In fact, it's common for guests to be voted at the end of our sessions as either MIRP (most interesting RP'er) or even MVP.

 

I've never seen a system as flexible as this in terms of power level. Sure, any system can be broken with munchkinism, but if your group likes to RP and tell a story together, this system is the one!

It's this post more than Kastin's that made me give it a try - it's not that I didn't like reading your post, Kastin (and I did!)

 

I also ran a game of FFG's Edge of the Empire and... I did not hate it. That's the most I could say for it. Certainly it appealed to my flexibility as GM; but I can BS my way through even a game like GURPS when I have to. But the system is TOO lose for my players, who got entirely too argumentative with me about several finer rules points, to the point that one actually left the table and swore not to come back because he genuinely dislikes me and thinks I actually care about him enough to return the favor. Seriously, you should NOT get a cover bonus if the guy walks over right next to you. The goon even missed the **** shot.

 

So I'm going with Savage Worlds. Not only do I know its concise yet thorough rules-set very well, but it has an decent adaption, even if I am wholeheartedly ditching his droid rules for PC droids.

 

This thread definitely needs to be locked, but Kastin's post (absent the first two paragraphs) needs to be enshrined somewhere.

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I've GM'ed for a lot of different systems over the years, including Champions, DnD, Pathfinder, GURPS, and Mutants & Masterminds. Other people have mentioned the beauty of the narrative dice system, which is what sold me on this game. However, another aspect which surprised me is how well characters with different XP levels can still have fun together.

 

I'm in a weekly multi-GM campaign that just hit 2 years. We let people rotate in and out according to their availability. We also allow guests to try the system out with us, so we often have characters at 150xp and others at over 2,000. In Pathfinder, a mere 3 level difference completely removes most of the fun for lower level characters. In FFG's SWRPG, even low level characters can affect the situation in profound ways, and the narrative dice system allows everyone to shape the story, with only their imaginations as the limit! In fact, it's common for guests to be voted at the end of our sessions as either MIRP (most interesting RP'er) or even MVP.

 

I've never seen a system as flexible as this in terms of power level. Sure, any system can be broken with munchkinism, but if your group likes to RP and tell a story together, this system is the one!

It's this post more than Kastin's that made me give it a try - it's not that I didn't like reading your post, Kastin (and I did!)

 

I also ran a game of FFG's Edge of the Empire and... I did not hate it. That's the most I could say for it. Certainly it appealed to my flexibility as GM; but I can BS my way through even a game like GURPS when I have to. But the system is TOO lose for my players, who got entirely too argumentative with me about several finer rules points, to the point that one actually left the table and swore not to come back because he genuinely dislikes me and thinks I actually care about him enough to return the favor. Seriously, you should NOT get a cover bonus if the guy walks over right next to you. The goon even missed the **** shot.

 

So I'm going with Savage Worlds. Not only do I know its concise yet thorough rules-set very well, but it has an decent adaption, even if I am wholeheartedly ditching his droid rules for PC droids.

 

This thread definitely needs to be locked, but Kastin's post (absent the first two paragraphs) needs to be enshrined somewhere.

 

 

Well, I do my best. ;) Gotta justify that GRE score somehow.

 

And I'm glad you gave it a try! Sucks that it didn't work out, but not everything is for everyone, after all. I can definitely see how the system doesn't entirely work for those who like the constraint and certainty of an extremely detailed rules set (to the limit that words like "certainty" can be applied to something like that). FFG certainly requires everyone to collaborate and let narrative override crunch, and if a player can't see that someone walking around cover (wasting maneuvers they could be using to Aim, even!) kind of negates cover, then they clearly need a nice set of governing rules that they can fall back on.

 

FFG SW isn't about finer points... a thing that's sometimes very difficult for me to remember. Which is why my GMing mantra is often "get tipsy, don't be uptight, roll with it".  :lol:

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I've GM'ed for a lot of different systems over the years, including Champions, DnD, Pathfinder, GURPS, and Mutants & Masterminds. Other people have mentioned the beauty of the narrative dice system, which is what sold me on this game. However, another aspect which surprised me is how well characters with different XP levels can still have fun together.

 

I'm in a weekly multi-GM campaign that just hit 2 years. We let people rotate in and out according to their availability. We also allow guests to try the system out with us, so we often have characters at 150xp and others at over 2,000. In Pathfinder, a mere 3 level difference completely removes most of the fun for lower level characters. In FFG's SWRPG, even low level characters can affect the situation in profound ways, and the narrative dice system allows everyone to shape the story, with only their imaginations as the limit! In fact, it's common for guests to be voted at the end of our sessions as either MIRP (most interesting RP'er) or even MVP.

 

I've never seen a system as flexible as this in terms of power level. Sure, any system can be broken with munchkinism, but if your group likes to RP and tell a story together, this system is the one!

It's this post more than Kastin's that made me give it a try - it's not that I didn't like reading your post, Kastin (and I did!)

 

I also ran a game of FFG's Edge of the Empire and... I did not hate it. That's the most I could say for it. Certainly it appealed to my flexibility as GM; but I can BS my way through even a game like GURPS when I have to. But the system is TOO lose for my players, who got entirely too argumentative with me about several finer rules points, to the point that one actually left the table and swore not to come back because he genuinely dislikes me and thinks I actually care about him enough to return the favor. Seriously, you should NOT get a cover bonus if the guy walks over right next to you. The goon even missed the **** shot.

 

So I'm going with Savage Worlds. Not only do I know its concise yet thorough rules-set very well, but it has an decent adaption, even if I am wholeheartedly ditching his droid rules for PC droids.

 

This thread definitely needs to be locked, but Kastin's post (absent the first two paragraphs) needs to be enshrined somewhere.

 

 

I don't think your choice of rules system is going to solve this problem.  Best of luck to you and happy gaming.

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So I'm going with Savage Worlds. Not only do I know its concise yet thorough rules-set very well, but it has an decent adaption, even if I am wholeheartedly ditching his droid rules for PC droids.

Savage Worlds is awesome.  I had a lot of fun playing it, we did the Slipstream version and it was a great, Flash Gordon-esque world.  I bet the Star Wars version will be a blast if it's well-written.  Good luck and maybe give the FFG game another try if you're looking for something different.

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I have a bunch of minor annoyances with FFG's take on a Star Wars RPG that is really driving me back towards the now-ancient d6-based West End Games books. The only one big thing is the blatant cash-grabbery of it all (splitting the 'core rules' into 3 books, with HUGE redundant sections and duplicated information? Speciality dice?), but there are a lot of little things that add up to that one big thing and make me just want to shrug and go, "Nope."

 

And I actually have bad memories of the WEG RPG, I just know it's a much sounder, easier-to-use system with a lot of existing books and information. The first system with a wild die concept, for example - and the fact that character creation can take 5 minutes, tops. The more I look at FFG's system and the more I try to plan for it the

 

 

So, sell me on the newest incarnation of the Star Wars RPG. What is actually better about it? Why should I bother with it, other than to give money to my FLGS instead of buying long OOP books?

 

Sounder?  Easier to use?  Um... oooookayyyy...

This is the easiest, fastest, simplest system I've ran.

 

That's really surprising honestly.  You're def in the minority.  The FFG system is a huge breath of fresh air for almost all of us.  However, if you need squares on your maps, the ability to calculate your die probabilities and meta game, the idea the GM is vs the Player, the idea players should die easily, want a crunchy tactical system, etc... then yeah go WEG out man.  But this is the first system that gets out of the way of ROLE playing that I've played.  I just introduced it to a bunch of d20 players at work and they're sold, abandoning their other games for a campaign in FFG's system.  But if you're still at a 'the dice are weird' place...

 

To each their own.

 

You are obviously thinking of the WotC D20 Star Wars rather than WEG's D6 system. D6 has some issues, but those you mention are not among them.

 

Yeah they were... more pronounced in WOTC... but they were there... this is taking WEG's system and taking it where it could have gone and giving it the potential it should have had.  IMHO.

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Sorry, but I can't agree at all.

 

WEG didn't use "squares on a map" at all, and it did not have a "crunchy tactical system" by any stretch of the imagination. PCs might die easily (I never really saw that) compared to FFG, but that's because FFG can easily make everybody a tank able to shrug off far too many hits. As far as calculating dice probabilities, that's going to come up in any game with dice, the FFG line included.

 

And when it comes to a system getting out of the way, WEG can be played with nothing more than the character sheets (unless you have Force powers in play). FFG can't because it really isn't possible to keep tract of the scores of talents and other details that might come up. Now that is saying that WEG loses out on being highly detailed compared to FFG, but for some that's a mixed bag.

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Honestly ...... why should anyone convince you to stay? Look dude ..... it's your time and money. If you want to spend it on FFG then, by all means, do so. If FFG's business practice annoy you then by all means stick with WEG. Why do you need us to convince you to stay? Either you do or you don't. It's not that big of a deal if you want to stick with WEG. No more so than if anyone wants to stick with WotC. FFG's style is not going to be for everyone.

 

So decide if you like the game. That choice is all on you. If you like it then stick with it. If not, then move on. This is fairly simple. 

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