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nickv2002

Discussion of New Scum Uniques

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Since this forum has been a bit sleepy lately, let's have a discussion about the the new Scum 'Heros' in Skirmish. First of all, here are the cards:
swi32_deployment_shyla-varad.png swi32_deployment_onar-koma.png swi32_deployment_vinto-hreeda.png

My own thoughts:

  • They all seem competitively costed, which is great.
  • They all have the Hunter trait in addition to something else, so hopefully we continue to see good Hunter cards (Greedo gave us a few).
  • Shyla has the same health/speed/defense as Obi who is very tough to kill, but her threat range is much wider and she can even recover a bit of health!
  • Onar is kind of 2/3rds of a Bantha based on points and health, but gets occasional Defense, and hits 1 close-up target hard.
  • Vinto is going to be throwing damage all over the pace. Between 2 attacks per turn and Boltslinger he's an ideal figure to have dart in to finish off injured and weak figures, but keeping him safe might be a challenge. Prey on the Weak seems like a good attachment on him to boost his range and add auto Pierce 1.
Edited by nickv2002

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I just realized this but Onar's ability says "spaces" so he can ignore difficult terrain costs and go through enemies. I play league of legends and if you're familiar with volibear, he has an ability where he rushes to an enemy and picks him up to toss him behind himself. The idea being then the enemy is positioned to get destroyed by your team. Onar can do that. Run through an enemy figure to the other side and then push it back towards your damage dealers and then Onar is in the way blocking an escape.

If followed up by Shyla's whip, you can effectively drag an enemy unit really far out of position. And hopefully to its death. And it's not limited to low cost units. Can you imagine doing that to leia?

Shyla can also cripple them or dirty trick when she brings them adjacent to her.

And I really like the possibilities for strength in numbers with Jabba and a lot of new scum figures (sadly Shyla won't be able to take much use of it unless you run Greedo or Hired Guns).

And change of plans has a lot of synergy in the scum faction with at least 13 hunter deployment cards with these three and jabba (maybe 15 if weequays have the hunter key word).

The other big thing to note is we have not seen any of the unique command cards for these characters

Edited by Masterchiefspiff

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Purposely double posting because want to make sure someone sees this rule question:

If Onar cripples someone and Shyla whips them to her, is that figure still not able to leave the new spot that Shyla took them to until the end of the round?

  

Yes, compare to being Stunned. Being Mandalorian-Whipped, pushed or Force Thrown (in campaign) is not voluntarily exiting space. "its space" and "your space" refer to the space the figure is on, not a space the figure was when it was stunned or crippled.

That's what I was thinking just wanted to make sure :)

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They look amazing. Especially the mandalorian and the rodian. To bad that Dengar and Boba Fett are so far removed from anything remotely competetive when these guys hit the shelves. I am not complaining about the new guys, because they are really awesome looking, I am just sad that the models I want to play, are now completely replacable with better models that's not associated with my love for Star Wars at all.

When you love scum, you have probably been drawn to the faction because of Fett, IG-88, Dengar, Bossk, Zuckuss and 4-LOM. But instead of fielding those guys, you're fielding HK's and some rodian dude without even a back story. I have a really hard time digging that.

Love these guys, loosing interest in the game because it's not what I would have liked it to be.

Edited by sejestephan

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They look amazing. Especially the mandalorian and the rodian. To bad that Dengar and Boba Fett are so far removed from anything remotely competetive when these guys hit the shelves. I am not complaining about the new guys, because they are really awesome looking, I am just sad that the models I want to play, are now completely replacable with better models that's not associated with my love for Star Wars at all.

When you love scum, you have probably been drawn to the faction because of Fett, IG-88, Dengar, Bossk, Zuckuss and 4-LOM. But instead of fielding those guys, you're fielding HK's and some rodian dude without even a back story. I have a really hard time digging that.

Love these guys, loosing interest in the game because it's not what I would have liked it to be.

But by definition, the mercs are all fringe characters ( really better off without a back story, boba loses his street fed as a whiny clone kid in AOTC)

I get what you're saying, and agree to a certain point, especially as far as getting new players interested. But personally I prefer some generic or characters I don't have bias for. Frankly, the game is what interests me more than anything, skirmish is a blast to play. I would also point out that it is a fairly new game (2-3yrs) and FFG is usually pretty good at fixing and balancing things. Look at X-wing for example, it takes time, but they do get around to rebalancing older figures. Give them a bit of time.

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I wouldn't hold my breath. FFG seem to hate Boba Fett, he sucks in x-wing and he (kinda) sucks here.

But back on track. Onar looks really cool me thinks, adding a block or evade to any small dude within 2, seems great. Temp alliance 3PO for Boba Fett, Onar and 3PO, giving Boba +2 block and +2 evade on every attack. Or splash Onar and Fett into imperial with royal guards and zillo, for an insane +3 block + 1 evade on disintegration man, I can see some value in that.

I know I came of overly dismayed, but I am really looking forward to this expansion, especially the rancor intruiges me. I al happy that FFG keep up the high standard for the new heroes in skirmish. I love playing Davith, Murne, Verena, Loku, MHD, and I am sure I'll love playing these guys as well. Anything to take the focus away from trooper spam I guess :)

Edited by sejestephan

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I, for one, am excited about this expansion. I love Scum in X-Wing and I am totally OK with the original characters here. 

 

For five points, Vinto has got some solid attack power and a range of surges that give him some flexibility. As the OP said, the slight boost from PotW may well help him considerably - he'll benefit from it twice as much as most figures!

 

Shyla looks great - three dice attack, technically 5 speed and the ability to move other figures out of position - potentially dragging out a big point character who has already activated to line up some kill shots. Or perhaps using some of the brawler cards to pin the moved figure in place or deal it unblockable damage.

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I wouldn't hold my breath. PP seem to hate Boba Fett, he sucks in x-wing and he (kinda) sucks here.

But back on track. Onar looks really cool me thinks, adding a block or evade to any small dude within 2, seems great. Temp alliance 3PO for Boba Fett, Onar and 3PO, giving Boba +2 block and +2 evade on every attack. Or splash Onar and Fett into imperial with royal guards and zillo, for an insane +3 block + 1 evade on disintegration man, I can see some value in that.

I know I came of overly dismayed, but I am really looking forward to this expansion, especially the rancor intruiges me. I al happy that PP keep up the high standard for the new heroes in skirmish. I love playing Davith, Judge, Verena, Loku, MHD, and I am sure I'll love playing these guys as well. Anything to take the focus away from trooper spam I guess :)

Ffg!

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Onar is going to be nasty with Heightened Reflexes and Element of Suprise and Primary Target. I think like the Bantha, he is going to live and die in effectiveness by the command cards and Jabba

He might benefit from In the Shadows and Camoflauge as well as Stealth Tactics, and even Bodyguard.

Edited by buckero0

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Can anyone see if Jabba's Blood Feud card is 1 or 3 damage(can't read it) ?

Getting that at the start of a game could be crucial, as to making it much easier to kill some of these high health and hard to hit deployment options.

With so many good Hunter options, will Price on their Heads get used? Or do we need a generic, cheap Hunter/trooper type to waste actions on it? Trandoshan Hunters almost fit the bill, but usually need their actions to get in position

Edited by buckero0

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I wouldn't hold my breath. PP seem to hate Boba Fett, he sucks in x-wing and he (kinda) sucks here.

But back on track. Onar looks really cool me thinks, adding a block or evade to any small dude within 2, seems great. Temp alliance 3PO for Boba Fett, Onar and 3PO, giving Boba +2 block and +2 evade on every attack. Or splash Onar and Fett into imperial with royal guards and zillo, for an insane +3 block + 1 evade on disintegration man, I can see some value in that.

I know I came of overly dismayed, but I am really looking forward to this expansion, especially the rancor intruiges me. I al happy that PP keep up the high standard for the new heroes in skirmish. I love playing Davith, Judge, Verena, Loku, MHD, and I am sure I'll love playing these guys as well. Anything to take the focus away from trooper spam I guess :)

Ffg!

Edited. Thats what you get for being half asleep when posting :-)

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It's 1 damage

3 seemed way too good, this is pretty pricey still as it costs an action

(Less scheming and focusing) and cost 2 pts, but I guess against a really hard to kill opponent like New Luke

Or something like that it could be worth it.

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So Shyla and Vinto seem pretty great. Not to sure on Onar.

 

Here's my thoughts:

Shyla:
Great all round character. Very flexible. Solid damage, great surge abilities. Will  benefit a lot from a focus. 
The whip is very interesting. She has solid defense so she can get in close which is great, however it's still only 1 attack for 8 points. This is on the borderline where characters need to start having 2 attacks or some other source of damage. 

The displacement is very powerful but time will tell if it has as much impact as we think. 

Perhaps we might start seeing more melee characters (both to counter the whip and to benefit from it). 

Overall seems very well rounded. 

 

Vinto:

He's simply just good. Solid attack for only 5 points. He's basically the scum Jyn trading a bit of toughness for damage. I think he's better than Greedo in almost every way but be aware that his raw damage is a bit low. I'm seeing a lot of Pierce 2 in this wave and it's a bit strange considering we just got Zillo. It either makes Zillo even more mandatory to take or the Devs are trying to flood the game with Pierce so that Zillo can only stop it once per turn and the rest of it matters more. 

Again, versatility of this guy is great. Being able to split attacks, or focus them or pick of low health stuff at decent range is very useful.

That being said, his minimum range is 3 so I dunno how often people will want to get close enough to use boltslinger but again, the flexibility of it is great. 

 

Onar:

I'm not sure what role this guy plays. He's there to tank shots obviously, but 15 health and no defense won't last that long. With some good roles a unit of eStormies will kill him in one activation. 
If he can in fact use Get Down on himself, that will slightly prolong his life (by 1 health) but his self harm ability doesn't seem very useful. 

His attack is definitely strong, and I really like the design choice of giving negative accuracy to surge abilities. He seems like a bit of a suicide bomber. Run in there, throw down a big attack, soak up as much return fire as you can and die.  

He's certainly cheap but he's competing with something like an elite Nexu which I think offers some more flexibility (especially with the new upcoming Feeding Frenzy). He'd be more useful if he had recover or some built in defense. I'm not usually a huge fan of disposable units (at least not above 4 points). 

 

 

 

Side note:

It does seem a little odd that Rebels are getting so few skirmish things this wave. 

They get Luke (who is amazing) and Rangers. That's it. 

In fact Imperials only get Jet Troopers and Dewback Riders. They can use some of the Merc units of course. 

 

But everything else is Mercs. 2 new units, 3 heroes, Jabba and a Rancor.

I can't remember if any previous waves had such a big difference in faction releases.

I wonder if that's a reaction to what they've been seeing in skirmish world wide?  

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So Shyla and Vinto seem pretty great. Not to sure on Onar.

 

Here's my thoughts:

Shyla:

Great all round character. Very flexible. Solid damage, great surge abilities. Will  benefit a lot from a focus. 

The whip is very interesting. She has solid defense so she can get in close which is great, however it's still only 1 attack for 8 points. This is on the borderline where characters need to start having 2 attacks or some other source of damage. 

The displacement is very powerful but time will tell if it has as much impact as we think. 

Perhaps we might start seeing more melee characters (both to counter the whip and to benefit from it). 

Overall seems very well rounded. 

 

Vinto:

He's simply just good. Solid attack for only 5 points. He's basically the scum Jyn trading a bit of toughness for damage. I think he's better than Greedo in almost every way but be aware that his raw damage is a bit low. I'm seeing a lot of Pierce 2 in this wave and it's a bit strange considering we just got Zillo. It either makes Zillo even more mandatory to take or the Devs are trying to flood the game with Pierce so that Zillo can only stop it once per turn and the rest of it matters more. 

Again, versatility of this guy is great. Being able to split attacks, or focus them or pick of low health stuff at decent range is very useful.

That being said, his minimum range is 3 so I dunno how often people will want to get close enough to use boltslinger but again, the flexibility of it is great. 

 

Onar:

I'm not sure what role this guy plays. He's there to tank shots obviously, but 15 health and no defense won't last that long. With some good roles a unit of eStormies will kill him in one activation. 

If he can in fact use Get Down on himself, that will slightly prolong his life (by 1 health) but his self harm ability doesn't seem very useful. 

His attack is definitely strong, and I really like the design choice of giving negative accuracy to surge abilities. He seems like a bit of a suicide bomber. Run in there, throw down a big attack, soak up as much return fire as you can and die.  

He's certainly cheap but he's competing with something like an elite Nexu which I think offers some more flexibility (especially with the new upcoming Feeding Frenzy). He'd be more useful if he had recover or some built in defense. I'm not usually a huge fan of disposable units (at least not above 4 points). 

 

 

 

Side note:

It does seem a little odd that Rebels are getting so few skirmish things this wave. 

They get Luke (who is amazing) and Rangers. That's it. 

In fact Imperials only get Jet Troopers and Dewback Riders. They can use some of the Merc units of course. 

 

But everything else is Mercs. 2 new units, 3 heroes, Jabba and a Rancor.

I can't remember if any previous waves had such a big difference in faction releases.

I wonder if that's a reaction to what they've been seeing in skirmish world wide?

Vinto is not better than Greedo, first off, Greedo has +3 damage, Vinto has +1, Greedo has better range surges, but Vinto rolls a blue, meaning his range is probably more consistent, however, he rolls less surges than Greedo. Vinto has great surges, but he also has that blue die, which doesn't have a lot of surges on them.

I think they're very comparable, but I actually prefer Greedo ... But whatever man, both of them for 9 pts sounds like a steal to me :-)

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I think he's better than greedo because he's more flexible.

He has bleed and weaken. He's much safer with longer range, more health and hide. He can split his attacks up and do unmitigated damage. 

Greedo has a stronger attack for sure, but he has slow to draw, much worse range and doesn't get to attack twice. 

 

Doing some rough numbers it looks like Vinto does about 2.5dmg on average against a black dice (without hide or weaken). And Greedo does 4.

Except Vinto can attack the same target twice and potentially throw 2 more damage out somewhere else. 

 

We don't know Vinto's command card yet either, where as Greedo's one is not amazing. Keeps him alive once sure but it's more of a "remove his weakens for one turn" rather than boost his power. 

 

They aren't too far apart as far as power goes but Vinto's certainly easier to use and I think just more flexible. He's worth the extra point in my opinion. 

Edited by Inquisitorsz

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So Shyla and Vinto seem pretty great. Not to sure on Onar.

Here's my thoughts:

Shyla:

Great all round character. Very flexible. Solid damage, great surge abilities. Will benefit a lot from a focus.

The whip is very interesting. She has solid defense so she can get in close which is great, however it's still only 1 attack for 8 points. This is on the borderline where characters need to start having 2 attacks or some other source of damage.

The displacement is very powerful but time will tell if it has as much impact as we think.

Perhaps we might start seeing more melee characters (both to counter the whip and to benefit from it).

Overall seems very well rounded.

Vinto:

He's simply just good. Solid attack for only 5 points. He's basically the scum Jyn trading a bit of toughness for damage. I think he's better than Greedo in almost every way but be aware that his raw damage is a bit low. I'm seeing a lot of Pierce 2 in this wave and it's a bit strange considering we just got Zillo. It either makes Zillo even more mandatory to take or the Devs are trying to flood the game with Pierce so that Zillo can only stop it once per turn and the rest of it matters more.

Again, versatility of this guy is great. Being able to split attacks, or focus them or pick of low health stuff at decent range is very useful.

That being said, his minimum range is 3 so I dunno how often people will want to get close enough to use boltslinger but again, the flexibility of it is great.

Onar:

I'm not sure what role this guy plays. He's there to tank shots obviously, but 15 health and no defense won't last that long. With some good roles a unit of eStormies will kill him in one activation.

If he can in fact use Get Down on himself, that will slightly prolong his life (by 1 health) but his self harm ability doesn't seem very useful.

His attack is definitely strong, and I really like the design choice of giving negative accuracy to surge abilities. He seems like a bit of a suicide bomber. Run in there, throw down a big attack, soak up as much return fire as you can and die.

He's certainly cheap but he's competing with something like an elite Nexu which I think offers some more flexibility (especially with the new upcoming Feeding Frenzy). He'd be more useful if he had recover or some built in defense. I'm not usually a huge fan of disposable units (at least not above 4 points).

Side note:

It does seem a little odd that Rebels are getting so few skirmish things this wave.

They get Luke (who is amazing) and Rangers. That's it.

In fact Imperials only get Jet Troopers and Dewback Riders. They can use some of the Merc units of course.

But everything else is Mercs. 2 new units, 3 heroes, Jabba and a Rancor.

I can't remember if any previous waves had such a big difference in faction releases.

I wonder if that's a reaction to what they've been seeing in skirmish world wide?

Vinto is not better than Greedo, first off, Greedo has +3 damage, Vinto has +1, Greedo has better range surges, but Vinto rolls a blue, meaning his range is probably more consistent, however, he rolls less surges than Greedo. Vinto has great surges, but he also has that blue die, which doesn't have a lot of surges on them.

I think they're very comparable, but I actually prefer Greedo ... But whatever man, both of them for 9 pts sounds like a steal to me :-)

Greedo is single target damage. Vinto is like having two units attacking in one figure. And he's got the ability to plink one unblock able damage on each of his attacks and these can go on different targets. He's a "you got away with one health? I don't think so!" Hunter. And the original attack can be blocked/xmanned and he still gets to get the boltslinger damage. Vinto has one more health and doesn't require being careful about not dying to slow on the draw. I still think Greedo is really good for his four points. But I think Vinto is also worth his one point extra cost. And we haven't seen his card yet :)

I am definitely tempted to play both rodians together :)

Edit: lol apparently I was typing this up as inquisitorz was responding too. Came to some similar conclusions :)

Edited by Masterchiefspiff

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That being said, his minimum range is 3 so I dunno how often people will want to get close enough to use boltslinger but again, the flexibility of it is great.

boltslinger literally increases his damage output by about 50%
Well, it does so only situationally. You can only use it when two enemy units are within LoS and within three spaces. But yeah the ability is awesome and will change how people play. That's pretty powerful for 5 points.

-ryanjamal

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That being said, his minimum range is 3 so I dunno how often people will want to get close enough to use boltslinger but again, the flexibility of it is great.

boltslinger literally increases his damage output by about 50%
Well, it does so only situationally. You can only use it when two enemy units are within LoS and within three spaces. But yeah the ability is awesome and will change how people play. That's pretty powerful for 5 points.

-ryanjamal

 

My point was that you probably want to be in that situation whenever possible since it's such a huge damage boost.

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ryanjamal you don't have be within 3 spaces to both targets, only to the one who should get the extra dmg by his ability. With the blue/green/ 2 accuracy surge you should be able to shot someone 5 or 6 spaces away and deal dmg to another figure within 3.

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