Would expose be worth it if it was a dual card?

[thespaceinvader 17,538]

Expose has a great idea in the card, but was executed poorly. This game is all about having better tokens than your opponent at times.  I hope FFG returns to the idea and creates a new card, such as...

 

​Aggressive 

When attacking with a primary weapon, roll one more attack die.  When defending, roll one less (minimum of zero).

4 points

 

With the ability to perform your actions every round, this is what a 4 point card looks like.

Yup.  Expose would probably be worth 4 points if it was permanent.  As long as it specified you had to have at least one AGI to start with...

[Stone37 3,353]

 

Expose has a great idea in the card, but was executed poorly. This game is all about having better tokens than your opponent at times.  I hope FFG returns to the idea and creates a new card, such as...

 

​Aggressive 

When attacking with a primary weapon, roll one more attack die.  When defending, roll one less (minimum of zero).

4 points

 

With the ability to perform your actions every round, this is what a 4 point card looks like.

Yup.  Expose would probably be worth 4 points if it was permanent.  As long as it specified you had to have at least one AGI to start with...

 

I disagree three.  Even the Decimator would be giving up a die at R3.  I don't think such a limitation is necessary. 

[mazz0 2,843]

 

 

Expose has a great idea in the card, but was executed poorly. This game is all about having better tokens than your opponent at times.  I hope FFG returns to the idea and creates a new card, such as...

 

​Aggressive 

When attacking with a primary weapon, roll one more attack die.  When defending, roll one less (minimum of zero).

4 points

 

With the ability to perform your actions every round, this is what a 4 point card looks like.

Yup.  Expose would probably be worth 4 points if it was permanent.  As long as it specified you had to have at least one AGI to start with...

 

I disagree three.  Even the Decimator would be giving up a die at R3.  I don't think such a limitation is necessary.

 

I disagree four.  The Decimator would be giving up less than other ships, since it would only be giving it up and R3, and is far less dependant on that die as it has shields and hull to make up for it.

[mazz0 2,843]

What if it's your second action, by the way?  If you already have a focus, how does Expose compare to taking a TL, and if you already have a TL how does expose compare to focusing?

[thespaceinvader 17,538]

Even the Decimator would be giving up a die at R3.

No it wouldn't. Agility is a minimum of 0. You add range and obstruction bonuses to that value.

[thespaceinvader 17,538]

What if it's your second action, by the way?  If you already have a focus, how does Expose compare to taking a TL, and if you already have a TL how does expose compare to focusing?

Expected damage for 3 dice with focus or TL is 2.25.

3 dice with focus/TL is 2.8125

4 dice with focus is 3

4 dice with TL is also 3.

So, Expose is a better second action than ether focus or TL looking purely at attack dice. But taking into account the opportunity costs and the penalty for using it...

[SEApocalypse 4,439]

Much more likely, yes.  Because then it's not competing with focus or TL for your actions.  It's often going to be worth taking -1 green for +1 red.

 

It *would* be broken good on a Decimator in that version, though.

 

I've often considered this, usually as a pilot ability:

 

Action: assign or remove a +1red/-1green or +1green/-1red token to this ship.

 

The tokens do what they say on the tin, to a minimum of 1 red or 1 green.  I think that would be a pretty solid card at 3 points.

 

Which could be easily fixed if you deny the flip if your agility becomes less than zero. 

[hothie 1,719]

What if it's your second action, by the way? If you already have a focus, how does Expose compare to taking a TL, and if you already have a TL how does expose compare to focusing?

Now you're starting down the right path. There are sooo many dice modification cards in each faction now that if you build a squad with Expose, it's very easy to have some form of modification with it. And that is when Expose gets to be worth the cost, when you can modify that extra die that you are throwing. (and i say modify because you have glitterstim, Dengar crew, Palpatine, Vessery, etc out there that aren't action dependent.)

And then you can couple onto that all of the ways to "gain a token"(Kyle, Lando, dutch, fleet officer, systems officer, manaroo, K4, guri, Kaato, among many others), plus you have free actions (Airen, Lando, squad leader.) It's harder to build an Expose squad that doesn't have some form of dice mods built into it.

Edited September 15, 2016 by hothie

[Jamz 74]

I'm looking at this list at the moment......

Expose on a Decimator using EI to get a 2nd action
 

“Echo”

TIE Phantom, Unique

Agent Kallus (2)

Fire-Control System (2)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

 

Captain Oicunn

VT-49 Decimator, Unique

Expose (4)

Emperor Palpatine (8)

Rebel Captive (3)

Experimental Interface (3)

Edited September 15, 2016 by Jamz

[thespaceinvader 17,538]

 

I'm looking at this list at the moment......

Expose on a Decimator using EI to get a 2nd action

 

“Echo”

TIE Phantom, Unique

Agent Kallus (2)

Fire-Control System (2)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

 

Captain Oicunn

VT-49 Decimator, Unique

Expose (4)

Emperor Palpatine (8)

Rebel Captive (3)

Experimental Interface (3)

 

The real trouble with this is you're spending 7 points to get the kind of attack boost you could get for 3 points by just equipping Predator.

[Jamz 74]

 

 

I'm looking at this list at the moment......

Expose on a Decimator using EI to get a 2nd action

 

“Echo”

TIE Phantom, Unique

Agent Kallus (2)

Fire-Control System (2)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

 

Captain Oicunn

VT-49 Decimator, Unique

Expose (4)

Emperor Palpatine (8)

Rebel Captive (3)

Experimental Interface (3)

 

The real trouble with this is you're spending 7 points to get the kind of attack boost you could get for 3 points by just equipping Predator.

 

 

 

I don't agree with a TL I can re-roll upto 4 dice not just one so extra action and extra attack? 

[thespaceinvader 17,538]

3 dice with focus and predator is 2.68 damage.  4 dice with TL is 3 damage.  And that;'s assuming only one reroll from Predator; it goes up to 2.8 with 2 rerolls.

 

0.32 damage isn't worth 4 points and a stress.

 

TL/Expose is better, but not four points and a stress better IMO.  You're more than welcome to disagree though.

[Firespray-32 5,424]

The action and price of expose just isn't worth it along with the penalty. You are paying 4 points to make a ship easier to destroy, so if you read the card carefully it comes down to read: remove your ship from play. Add the total cost of your ship +4 to your opponent's MOV.

 

I tried it on Vader and I found out that Vader's cost plus the cost of the upgrade was just too much points for what I got.

 

Of course it was: it's 4 points and an action to turn him into an X-wing.

[mazz0 2,843]

3 dice with focus and predator is 2.68 damage.  4 dice with TL is 3 damage.  And that;'s assuming only one reroll from Predator; it goes up to 2.8 with 2 rerolls.

 

0.32 damage isn't worth 4 points and a stress.

 

TL/Expose is better, but not four points and a stress better IMO.  You're more than welcome to disagree though.

 

No thanks, I only disagree when it's unwelcome.

[hothie 1,719]

 

0.32 damage isn't worth 4 points and a stress.

 

TL/Expose is better, but not four points and a stress better IMO.  You're more than welcome to disagree though.

Not disagreeing, I'm confused where the stress is coming from.

And if you are comparing Expose to Predator, you're only talking a 1 point difference.

Now, would you put Predator on Vessery? Consider Vessery with Expose and x7. His ability is a built in Predator, assuming you have 63 points of something else that can target lock his target. Now he can roll 4+tl or 5+tl. And the -1 AGI, he's got 3 shields, 3 hull, 2 AGI, and an evade token. He can soak up a couple of shots while the other 63 points of your squad (Whisper with VI, ACD, FCS?) is ignored.

[mazz0 2,843]

 

 

0.32 damage isn't worth 4 points and a stress.

 

TL/Expose is better, but not four points and a stress better IMO.  You're more than welcome to disagree though.

Not disagreeing, I'm confused where the stress is coming from.

And if you are comparing Expose to Predator, you're only talking a 1 point difference.

Now, would you put Predator on Vessery? Consider Vessery with Expose and x7. His ability is a built in Predator, assuming you have 63 points of something else that can target lock his target. Now he can roll 4+tl or 5+tl. And the -1 AGI, he's got 3 shields, 3 hull, 2 AGI, and an evade token. He can soak up a couple of shots while the other 63 points of your squad (Whisper with VI, ACD, FCS?) is ignored.

 

I think the stress was comcing from EI or PTL.

[hothie 1,719]

0.32 damage isn't worth 4 points and a stress.

TL/Expose is better, but not four points and a stress better IMO. You're more than welcome to disagree though.

Not disagreeing, I'm confused where the stress is coming from.

And if you are comparing Expose to Predator, you're only talking a 1 point difference.

Now, would you put Predator on Vessery? Consider Vessery with Expose and x7. His ability is a built in Predator, assuming you have 63 points of something else that can target lock his target. Now he can roll 4+tl or 5+tl. And the -1 AGI, he's got 3 shields, 3 hull, 2 AGI, and an evade token. He can soak up a couple of shots while the other 63 points of your squad (Whisper with VI, ACD, FCS?) is ignored.

I think the stress was comcing from EI or PTL.

EI, I could see that. Gotcha. Thanks. That explains the point difference, too. Edited September 15, 2016 by hothie

[mazz0 2,843]

0.32 damage isn't worth 4 points and a stress.

TL/Expose is better, but not four points and a stress better IMO. You're more than welcome to disagree though.

Not disagreeing, I'm confused where the stress is coming from.

And if you are comparing Expose to Predator, you're only talking a 1 point difference.

Now, would you put Predator on Vessery? Consider Vessery with Expose and x7. His ability is a built in Predator, assuming you have 63 points of something else that can target lock his target. Now he can roll 4+tl or 5+tl. And the -1 AGI, he's got 3 shields, 3 hull, 2 AGI, and an evade token. He can soak up a couple of shots while the other 63 points of your squad (Whisper with VI, ACD, FCS?) is ignored.

I think the stress was comcing from EI or PTL.

EI, I could see that. Gotcha. Thanks. That explains the point difference, too.

It could be PTL! On an A-Wing

[hothie 1,719]

0.32 damage isn't worth 4 points and a stress.

TL/Expose is better, but not four points and a stress better IMO. You're more than welcome to disagree though.

Not disagreeing, I'm confused where the stress is coming from.

And if you are comparing Expose to Predator, you're only talking a 1 point difference.

Now, would you put Predator on Vessery? Consider Vessery with Expose and x7. His ability is a built in Predator, assuming you have 63 points of something else that can target lock his target. Now he can roll 4+tl or 5+tl. And the -1 AGI, he's got 3 shields, 3 hull, 2 AGI, and an evade token. He can soak up a couple of shots while the other 63 points of your squad (Whisper with VI, ACD, FCS?) is ignored.

I think the stress was comcing from EI or PTL.

EI, I could see that. Gotcha. Thanks. That explains the point difference, too.

It could be PTL! On an A-Wing

Fair enough. Point mazz0.

[Rakaydos 4,232]

Taken to the logical extreme:

 

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)
Expose (4)
Emperor Palpatine (8)
Agent Kallus (2)
Experimental Interface (3)

Total: 63

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

 

Between Chiranu and Kallus, you've basically got free actionless Focus. TL EI Expose, and you're throwing 4 (or 5) TL Focused and Palpatine'd dice. Not even Fell is going to want to face that for long.

[Rividius 583]

So if I was re-designing expose, I would make a 'jouster' upgrade, by rewarding players for placing ships in their enemies fire arcs.

 

Expose

If you are in the firing arc of a ship that is also in your firing arc, you may roll one extra attack dice when attacking that ship.

 

Thematically, it's encouraging you to expose your ships to enemy fire, rather than just applying a penalty to your defense.

Mechanically, it gives your opponent the option of *not* pointing his ships in your direction to deny you the extra dice.

[mazz0 2,843]

So if I was re-designing expose, I would make a 'jouster' upgrade, by rewarding players for placing ships in their enemies fire arcs.

 

Expose

If you are in the firing arc of a ship that is also in your firing arc, you may roll one extra attack dice when attacking that ship.

 

Thematically, it's encouraging you to expose your ships to enemy fire, rather than just applying a penalty to your defense.

Mechanically, it gives your opponent the option of *not* pointing his ships in your direction to deny you the extra dice.

 

Hmm, I like that.  Would be worth quite a lot wouldn't it?  Perhaps even 4pts.  The restriction of being in your target's arc isn't such a big one on a non-arcdodger, particularly if you don't have many ships.  Could pair up nicely with Biggs, maybe on an ARC 170!

[SEApocalypse 4,439]

3 dice with focus and predator is 2.68 damage.  4 dice with TL is 3 damage.  And that;'s assuming only one reroll from Predator; it goes up to 2.8 with 2 rerolls.

 

0.32 damage isn't worth 4 points and a stress.

 

TL/Expose is better, but not four points and a stress better IMO.  You're more than welcome to disagree though.

 

You need to roll defense dice against that. The stronger the defense, the more relevant those 0.32 damage become. They have the potential to double or triple your damage against Palp Aces. ;-)

 

To take your example and attack an imperial token stack with Palp support:

3 dice with focus and predator are now 0.039 damage, while 4 dice with TL are 0.14 damage. 250% damage increase ;-)

And you strip the tokens better that way too. 

 

 

So you better make those saved points count. 

[gryffindorhouse 204]

 It would be worth it if one side was as it is, and the other side said:

 

 Increase your agility value by 1.

 Decrease your primary weapon value by 1.

[ABXY 1,019]

Really, they could just errata the card and add "Perform a free action from your action bar." to resolve the action cost - but would it then be worthwhile???

 

(wouldn't expect them to do the following - why tweak such an old card when they can simply sell you a new one?)