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Metushelah

Shouldn't Lannik's silhouette be 0 ? A 0 silhouette is only a boon?

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Been looking about in the forums and haven't seen references or talks of this so i am asking this here.

 

After comparing some species sizes with other species such as between Jawa(1.1m size 0), Ortalan(1m size 0), Aleena(0.8m size 0), Drall(1.2m not 0 size), Toydarians(1.2m size 0), polis Massan(1.4 not 0 size), Chadra-fan(1m size 0), Gossams(1.25m size 0), Dug(1.1 not 0 size) and Lannik(1.2m not size 0) i can't help but feel there is some inconsistency .

 

This leads me to ask, whether being a one size lower silhouette is only a boon and therefore is "graciously overlooked" in those races for balance reasons or whether being a one lower size is also a detriment (aside from being easier to fling you around with the force) and therefore it really is a  simple mistake?

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Could be a balance issue, but I think there is a bit more to it. Silhouette is not just a measure of height, but an abstraction; compared to the other shorter species, Lanniks are much stronger and kind of stocky. So the overall profile of a Lannik is a bit bigger than a Chadra-Fan or an Aleena, even though they aren't much taller. Drall, by the way, can reach 1.5 meters, so they're in a similar situation. Dugs have kind of an odd stature, so likewise.

 

I'm pretty sure there are no official numbers on Jawas or Ortolans anywhere, so I don't know where you got their silhouettes.

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Could be a balance issue, but I think there is a bit more to it. Silhouette is not just a measure of height, but an abstraction; compared to the other shorter species, Lanniks are much stronger and kind of stocky. So the overall profile of a Lannik is a bit bigger than a Chadra-Fan or an Aleena, even though they aren't much taller. Drall, by the way, can reach 1.5 meters, so they're in a similar situation. Dugs have kind of an odd stature, so likewise.

 

I'm pretty sure there are no official numbers on Jawas or Ortolans anywhere, so I don't know where you got their silhouettes.

 

i believe an adventure has Jawa NPCs? I thought I heard about that, but don't follow the EotE modules as well as I do the others...

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The Jawa and Ortalan i took from the unofficial species menagerie.

 

It's a nice try to explain it but the same stubbiness exists on toydarians and they are size 0. Also you need to be quiet foolish to think you can withstand blaster fire and Lanniks or some of the other "smaller-ish" species are not stupid (with intelligence 2 and higher).

 

I would also add that it's independent of your agility (by trying to explain that they are naturally faster).

 

 

So it's either a balancing issue or a mistake on the other species. 

 

 

The big benefits i can find of being a lower size is that you can ride a smaller beast or machine (silhouette 1 is enough) and that you are harder to hit for the bigger guys (2 and up).

On the other hand in a brawl you are likely going to be knocked down more easily and maybe your encumbrance is a bit lower (being increased by 5*size on bigger creatures).

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The Jawa and Ortalan i took from the unofficial species menagerie.

Yeah, I wouldn't put too much stock in those.

 

Cyril and I came up with those in the very early days of EotE, and took a number of our cues (Cyril especially) from the d20 versions of those species (I tried to also consider the d6 versions where available, but that wasn't always the case, especially for species introduced after WotC got the license).  And at the time, there really hadn't been much in the way of Silhouette 0 species, so we were on our own as far as determining what did or didn't fit as being Silhouette 0, and more often than not if the WotC stats put them as size Small, then we went with Silhouette 0 for our write-up.

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It's a nice try to explain it but the same stubbiness exists on toydarians and they are size 0.

Well, TCW showed some Toydarians (it's the fellows on the left and right of the picture) with thinner bodies than what we usually see, which leads me to believe that Watto and Katuunko is simple corpulent for Toydarians. So if that's the case, then Toydarians are pretty small.

 

And remember: it's not that Lanniks are short, it's that all other species are freakishly tall.

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Well, TCW showed some Toydarians (it's the fellows on the left and right of the picture) with thinner bodies than what we usually see, which leads me to believe that Watto and Katuunko is simple corpulent for Toydarians. So if that's the case, then Toydarians are pretty small.

ze 0.

 

And remember: it's not that Lanniks are short, it's that all other species are freakishly tall.

 

Exactly! other are much bigger than them, so they must be smaller! :)

And by the same logic of Watto being the exception one can say the same thing of other members of those species who by their Lore Size should be considered silhouette 0 but are not (Drall, Lannik, Dug).

 

Any way i get the feeling you guys don't want to question the RAW so there is really no point in trying to convince each other :D

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Well, TCW showed some Toydarians (it's the fellows on the left and right of the picture) with thinner bodies than what we usually see, which leads me to believe that Watto and Katuunko is simple corpulent for Toydarians. So if that's the case, then Toydarians are pretty small.

ze 0.

 

And remember: it's not that Lanniks are short, it's that all other species are freakishly tall.

 

Exactly! other are much bigger than them, so they must be smaller! :)

And by the same logic of Watto being the exception one can say the same thing of other members of those species who by their Lore Size should be considered silhouette 0 but are not (Drall, Lannik, Dug).

 

Any way i get the feeling you guys don't want to question the RAW so there is really no point in trying to convince each other :D

 

I actually think there's a miscommunication between what I'm saying and what you're saying, here.

 

And I think it's somewhat of an insult saying that any of us don't want to question RAW (I definitely thought it was odd at first). Here's the thing to remember, though: You cannot equate something's silhouette with a number of meters, and expect everything else to fall in line, because silhouette is not a concrete measurement. It's a flexible abstraction. Other games and systems use hard and fast measurements of height to determine an object's size; this game does not.

 

And seeing as the developers and writers are just big fans of Star Wars as anyone could be, and that they have all the same research available to them as anybody else does, I'm sure that, if they thought that Lannik's being silhouette 0 was an important enough aspect of the species, they would have had it.

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Guest cimmerianthief

I've tried to re-skin species from multiple FFG sources. We had a lot of fun with the new Jawa a proud father shared, too. What did I learn?

 

GO WITH YOUR GUT. There is no hard rule that forces balance in species design. I think this is why we have two Lanniks in core rules that are so different.

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Guest cimmerianthief

No insults - no worries. Try reading the newer "Jawa" thread from the EotE thread. There, we discuss an article from a developer. Although it's an exciting read and helps us see behind the curtain, too much numerical crunch is open to interpretation. Following the developers' guidelines, for example, a Red Niktos' arid/hot environmental conditions seems to GIVE that species more XP when built from scratch. 

 

It's a lot of algebra; be forewarned, and some of the variables still remain inconclusive. This is what I tried to do, based on the article guidelines.

 

Start with a basic human. This is 110XP, with all base characteristics at 2.

Buy back one non-career skill rank 1 at 10XP, and the second one for another 10XP. We now have 130XP with which to make a new species.

This is the gold standard by which we may navigate. 

Buying more characteristics costs the same amount to raise as in character creation (i.e.: 2 to 3 = 30XP), while lowering one characteristic also nets us the difference (i.e.: 2 to 1 = +10XP). Similarly, WT and ST can fluctuate. No definitive cost is given for talents, and finding out how much environmental conditions or silhouette or acute senses seems quite difficult, because too many variables hinge on these unknown purchase rates.

 

So, after a full day of trying to qualify a Jawa, I re-read the best advice, and went with my gut. 

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