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I am critically looking at all the GW IP stuff and deciding whether to pick up before they disappear into the gaming sunset.

I have the complete range of DH 1st edition books and that is more than enough material to last us a life time. The rules are functional and overall do the job they need to do.

What are thoughts on grabbing the 2nd edition books? Do they add much to the much larger 1st edition range?

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I am critically looking at all the GW IP stuff and deciding whether to pick up before they disappear into the gaming sunset.

I have the complete range of DH 1st edition books and that is more than enough material to last us a life time. The rules are functional and overall do the job they need to do.

What are thoughts on grabbing the 2nd edition books? Do they add much to the much larger 1st edition range?

 

I'd say that in terms of updated rules they are great, in terms of setting you can do well with the Calixis sector.

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I'd say definitely. If just to transport the mechanics of the system to DH1.

 

I did that while running Haarlock's Legacy. There were some things lost, but the smoothness gained was worth it.

 

Definitely read the core though, I'm still finding stuff I missed that's different.

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Personally, I wouldn't use 2E to add to 1E (though there is always the option to find inspiration), but rather to replace it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I've got most of 1E's books, but have come to the opinion of it suffering from classic 40k "codex creep" and a bloated locale. They just released too many books, many of the later ones absolutely breaking balance with the former, and pushed too much stuff into the setting; a weird sort of fanservice that places catering to popularity before actually creating an immersive, living world.

 

In contrast, 2E seems to hit that sweet spot of having just enough supplements to cover everything you need without actually pushing past that magic mark like 1E did. Sure, our individual preferences as gamers and readers will mean that we'll all miss "that one thing" from the books, but the rules are easy to adapt and stuff is easy to houserule, so this should not be a problem at all.

 

tl;dr: If I hadn't gotten them already, I'd get 2E even now. In a weird way, the possibility for additional products for 2E now being zero could actually be regarded as a good thing, because it renders Dark Heresy 2.0 a "complete line" where you can be sure you've got everything after buying only four books, rather than feeling like you have to "subscribe" to a biannual release cycle seeing you sink hundreds of bucks into an ever growing list of "optional" supplements, most of which written just for the sake of being sold.

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...

 

tl;dr: If I hadn't gotten them already, I'd get 2E even now. In a weird way, the possibility for additional products for 2E now being zero could actually be regarded as a good thing, because it renders Dark Heresy 2.0 a "complete line" where you can be sure you've got everything after buying only four books, rather than feeling like you have to "subscribe" to a biannual release cycle seeing you sink hundreds of bucks into an ever growing list of "optional" supplements, most of which written just for the sake of being sold.

 

Yes, completely agree there. It seems to be the most prominent strategy these days to get people to buy more: Small but numerous overpriced mini expansions.

 

Then you have that little devil on your shoulder telling you: "Come on, it's just $15, and then you got the complete set... could you imagine yourself in 10 years with a full collection, except for that small piece?"

 

Then the angel is like "Nooo, think of your wallet, there are better things to spend money on than hundreds and hundreds of dollars on toys, games, fantasy books, ...".

 

Sounds familiar?

 

I guess the whole GW/FFG split is a relieve for the angel on my shoulder, except I did some last minute buying to cater the devil as well. Heh.

Edited by Gridash

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you can be sure you've got everything after buying only four books, rather than feeling like you have to "subscribe" to a biannual release cycle seeing you sink hundreds of bucks into an ever growing list of "optional" supplements, most of which written just for the sake of being sold.

 

Forgotten Gods has some alternate homeworlds and some pretty good fluff, but I'd agree the GM kit isn't really that necessary.

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Then the angel is like "Nooo, think of your wallet, there are better things to spend money on than hundreds and hundreds of dollars on toys, games, fantasy books, ...".

 

Wait - you're saying there are better things than spending a grand on 2000 points of Sisters models? hum. Color me intrigued.  :P

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Personally, I wouldn't use 2E to add to 1E (though there is always the option to find inspiration), but rather to replace it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I've got most of 1E's books, but have come to the opinion of it suffering from classic 40k "codex creep" and a bloated locale. They just released too many books, many of the later ones absolutely breaking balance with the former, and pushed too much stuff into the setting; a weird sort of fanservice that places catering to popularity before actually creating an immersive, living world.

 

In contrast, 2E seems to hit that sweet spot of having just enough supplements to cover everything you need without actually pushing past that magic mark like 1E did. Sure, our individual preferences as gamers and readers will mean that we'll all miss "that one thing" from the books, but the rules are easy to adapt and stuff is easy to houserule, so this should not be a problem at all.

 

tl;dr: If I hadn't gotten them already, I'd get 2E even now. In a weird way, the possibility for additional products for 2E now being zero could actually be regarded as a good thing, because it renders Dark Heresy 2.0 a "complete line" where you can be sure you've got everything after buying only four books, rather than feeling like you have to "subscribe" to a biannual release cycle seeing you sink hundreds of bucks into an ever growing list of "optional" supplements, most of which written just for the sake of being sold.

Thanks. I agree that 1st edition suffers from too many books with an overwhelming abundance of material. However I went into auto pilot and bought everyone so now feel compelled to get the most out of them. 2nd edition looks to be an improvement but not enough to pull me away from 1st edition. The one book that is tempting me is Forgotten Gods. Is it easy enough to run using 1st edition?

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Written just for the sake of being sold?

 

Sure. It's common practice for a franchise the longer it exists -- companies, even FFG, need to make money.

 

Does the 40k tabletop really need a new edition with all-new codices every 2 years? Does there really need to be a new Call of Duty game every year? Even with Paradox, as much as I love that studio, you can see this practice when looking at Crusader Kings 2, where they've just released a full expansion focused entirely on ... people getting sick.

 

For every game, including P&P RPGs, there comes a point where additional supplements objectively just don't add much to the game anymore, aside from catering to that particular subset of the playerbase that is particularly fond of the supplement's focus.

 

Certainly, if one really wanted to, a skilled writer can write some cool stuff just about anything. But in my personal opinion, more is not always better; not when you end up with a product line that seems off-putting to new players because they see a lineup of twenty products and how much money it'd cost to get them all.

Not to mention the horrible browsing through a dozen different books just because rules and stats are all over the place.

Edited by Lynata

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Thanks. I agree that 1st edition suffers from too many books with an overwhelming abundance of material. However I went into auto pilot and bought everyone so now feel compelled to get the most out of them. 2nd edition looks to be an improvement but not enough to pull me away from 1st edition. The one book that is tempting me is Forgotten Gods. Is it easy enough to run using 1st edition?

 

 

For the most part I imagine it would be pretty straight forward to run Forgotten Gods or Dark Pursuits (the 2E corebook adventure) using 1st edition rules. Basic enemy statlines are pretty much the same and there are fewer talents to wrap your head around.

 

The GM kit adventure is fairly basic and I probably wouldn't bother grabbing it if you haven't already. I was expecting something a bit more unique in the kit like the BC rules for reducing Infamy or the combat bikes and basic trucks in OW. Alas, the one thing that was useful was stats for Nurgle zombies.

Edited by Popdart

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In answer to the OP: yes! I have felt for a long time that the 40k RPG system is one of the better (though not perfect!) ones out there. The best chance of it getting picked up again is to show that there's still money to be made!

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I'm a big fan off the rules updates to 2nd edition. I think it's a complete system even with only 6 products to it's credit. The rules updated brought it in line with Black Crusade and Only War so a lot of the material can cross over between the three games. In my opinion it's worth picking up.

DH1 will always have a place in my heart, but I felt DH2 was needed to rebalance the power creep. The only thing I didn't like was the change of needing to roll for equipment, but a GM can provide whatever is needed as a care package from the group's Inquisitor if the group rolls poorly to acquire what they need.

Edited by LeBlanc13

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From my perspective, I feel dh2 psyker stuff limited to what they could actually can do compared to dh1 and fluff and what not. For me it is just not worth taking anymore. Even if many things look broken in dh1, I believe everything have their place in power scale. But I might be biased on my own characters who are almost impossible to match or represent with the dh2 system.

 

I think DH2 is much more appropriate for lower character level games.

 

But hey - New sector is described!

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Yeah, at some point I got the chance to play a Psyker, having quite high initial Toughness. So I figured.. Biomancer ! Yeah baby.

 

And then I noticed that you're so suck healing yourself or others as a Biomancer, something I would think would be the essence of a Biomancer.

 

If a lightly wounded person decides to spend his entire day in bed, he heals like 3-4 wounds (assuming a Toughness Bonus of 3-4). Then compare it to the Psyker using Endurance, assuming he has a Psy Rating of 4 or something. The Psyker then heals 2 points of damage. It only works every 12 hours so that's also 4 points of damage for a whole day.

 

Endurance heals an amount of wounds equal to half the Psyker psy rating rounded up, it heals the damage of X people where X is the psyrating of the Psyker. It also removes Pinning. Endurance works best if you have several people in your group wounded at the same time. It could be alright then, but if you want to focus on just yourself or others, you're out of luck. Better to just stay in bed then.

 

The power itself is alright, it has utility in the right circumstances, but I feel like the Biomancy tree lacks a more "focused" healing power. A power that heals just 1 person, but strongly. 

 

Maybe it's a balance thing but yeah.

Edited by Gridash

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The usage of Psychic Powers in 2E is backwards as all hell. It forces psykers to get Willpower at the expense of anything else to even have a chance of casting their powers with any sort of tangible effect and flat out punishes players when they try to use their powers at anything but the lowest Psy Rating. I know that Psykers have been too powerful in games like Black Crusade and Deathwatch, but this gutting of the entire concept seems arbitrary.

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It's almost like psykers need a lot of will to do the things they do, and it's a dangerous thing they do or something...

 

You want dangerous psychic powers? Use DH 1st ed.

All that 2nd Ed added was nerfing psykers, giving them less powers to choose from, making said powers useless at low levels and then punishing them for trying to use them effectively. The only tree that is somewhat viable without significant house-ruling is Divination, and that's just because you can make the GM quit the game after one session of it.

 

I don't know what Psykers you've had in your games and how happy they've been with their lackluster powers that may eat their soul regardless of what they do, but for my group it took less than a month of 2E psychic powers before people wanted to burn the book in a sacrifice to the Dark Gods and pray for a better system.

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You miss my implication SCKoNi, you yourself mentions that psykers are punished to the point of using their powers at low levels.

 

All trees are viable, your personal opinion is regardless of their viability. Personal taste does not impact that.

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