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When an ip license is lost - a new path forward

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Translation: "We are sick of GW's crap so were not working with them anymore, but were saying it nicely"

I don't think "crap" drives business decisions as much as some people think.  It's more likely, "We can't hit profitability margins with the license fee GW is insisting on."

 

It was a mutually beneficial arrangement until it wasn't.

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Not super surprising. FFG directly competing with Warhammer Age of Sigmar with their Runewars miniatures game was kind of a signal, along with GW increasing the number of tie-in boardgames they have been putting out. I didn't realize Fury of Dracula was a GW IP, sad to see that go. I feel bad for the Conquest players out there too :(

Edited by Transmogrifier

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Translation: "We are sick of GW's crap so were not working with them anymore, but were saying it nicely"

I don't think "crap" drives business decisions as much as some people think.  It's more likely, "We can't hit profitability margins with the license fee GW is insisting on."

 

It was a mutually beneficial arrangement until it wasn't.

 

With GW undergoing changes, it's also entirely possible that they're trying to bring everything back under one roof, to do it themselves.

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I wonder if they keep producing until that date or if they are cutting everything now as we speak.

 

 

Probably cut it soon otherwise they get left with stock they are not allowed to sell. 

 

 

As long as they sell it on time to their distributors they should be most likely fine. But IANAL and know jack **** about their licence with GW either. 

Overall it's not surprising anyway as FFG has become a big competitor of GW, basically the only other option long term would have been for Asmodee to buy GW. Asmodee is on a buying spree anyway, but they just took a 80 million dollar loan to basically buy pandemic together with its developer F2Z. So GW might be on their shopping list for a later point in time. ;-)

One thing is for sure, Asmodee is on a shopping spree and willing to continue that strategy to expand its market dominance. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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Not super surprising. FFG directly competing with Warhammer Age of Sigmar with their Runewars miniatures game was kind of a signal, along with GW increasing the number of tie-in boardgames they have been putting out. I didn't realize Fury of Dracula was a GW IP, sad to see that go. I feel bad for the Conquest players out there too :(

^ This.

 

FFG knew that Runewars would compromise their license but went ahead with it anyway.

 

Really pisses me off, the GW games they made were (mostly) great. Conquest is a great game and had the potential to become one of the best 40k Universe games out there.

 

What we have to worry about on these boards is whether or not Asmodee/FFG are sensible enough to keep to the T&C's concerning their license with the Mouse.

 

Cheers

Baaa

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I wonder if they keep producing until that date or if they are cutting everything now as we speak.

 

 

Probably cut it soon otherwise they get left with stock they are not allowed to sell. 

 

 

As long as they sell it on time to their distributors they should be most likely fine. But IANAL and know jack **** about their licence with GW either. 

Overall it not surprising anyway as FFG has become a big competitor of GW, basically the only other option long term would have been for Asmodee to buy GW. Asmodee is on a buying spree anyway, but they just took a 80 million dollar loan to basically buy pandemic together with its developer F2Z. So GW might be on their shopping list for a later point in time. ;-)

One thing is for sure, Asmodee is on a shopping spree and willing to continue that strategy to expand its market dominance. 

 

 

Maybe it would be better if sombody else would get to control of the franchise and the minatures. Re-install Warhammer Fantasy, to an easy to access rank and file system, like FFG has proven that this is possible (I'm sorry FFG, I just like the old Warhammer fluff better then any other fantasy tabletop setting). Maybe Asmodee buys GW at some point and FFG makes some good games in the old world, involving citadel miniatures ^^

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Not super surprising. FFG directly competing with Warhammer Age of Sigmar with their Runewars miniatures game was kind of a signal, along with GW increasing the number of tie-in boardgames they have been putting out. I didn't realize Fury of Dracula was a GW IP, sad to see that go. I feel bad for the Conquest players out there too :(

^ This.

 

FFG knew that Runewars would compromise their license but went ahead with it anyway.

 

Really pisses me off, the GW games they made were (mostly) great. Conquest is a great game and had the potential to become one of the best 40k Universe games out there.

 

What we have to worry about on these boards is whether or not Asmodee/FFG are sensible enough to keep to the T&C's concerning their license with the Mouse.

 

Cheers

Baaa

 

 

Well, GW left a gap when they decided to kill Warhammer Fantasy. So, why wouldn't FFG jump in and take advantage of that fact?

GW is claiming that they are primarily a manufacturer for excellent miniatures. FFG does make excellent games. If both would have been excellent to each other, unbelivable things would have happened.

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Not super surprising. FFG directly competing with Warhammer Age of Sigmar with their Runewars miniatures game was kind of a signal, along with GW increasing the number of tie-in boardgames they have been putting out. I didn't realize Fury of Dracula was a GW IP, sad to see that go. I feel bad for the Conquest players out there too :(

^ This.

 

FFG knew that Runewars would compromise their license but went ahead with it anyway.

 

Really pisses me off, the GW games they made were (mostly) great. Conquest is a great game and had the potential to become one of the best 40k Universe games out there.

 

What we have to worry about on these boards is whether or not Asmodee/FFG are sensible enough to keep to the T&C's concerning their license with the Mouse.

 

Cheers

Baaa

 

Or they knew their license was probably going to be ending soon and decided to put out their own product catering to that market.

 

GW's revenues have been declining, so the terms of this deal clearly were not working out for them. It stinks for the players, but it sounds like this is just the way business goes for both sides of the relationship.

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Not super surprising. FFG directly competing with Warhammer Age of Sigmar with their Runewars miniatures game was kind of a signal, along with GW increasing the number of tie-in boardgames they have been putting out. I didn't realize Fury of Dracula was a GW IP, sad to see that go. I feel bad for the Conquest players out there too :(

^ This.

 

FFG knew that Runewars would compromise their license but went ahead with it anyway.

 

Really pisses me off, the GW games they made were (mostly) great. Conquest is a great game and had the potential to become one of the best 40k Universe games out there.

 

What we have to worry about on these boards is whether or not Asmodee/FFG are sensible enough to keep to the T&C's concerning their license with the Mouse.

 

Cheers

Baaa

 

 

Considering that Star Wars was one of the reasons that Asmodee bought FFG, I don't see them letting it slide any time soon (granted, that doesn't necessarily mean they won't lose it, because LFL can choose just not to re-up anyway). 

 

I think this was primarily due to GW redoing some of their products. Since they seem to be getting back into boardgames it makes no sense of have a lot of those stuck with FFG. It might also explain the glut of new FFG stuff coming, as designers were shifted around and space was opened up for new products. 

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I guess we know what games will be heavily featured in this year's FFG Black Friday sale.

 

If they make it that far; Cool Stuff flew through 15 copies of Forbidden Stars in under an hour, and are currently sold out of Chaos in the Old World and everything Talisman save for a single expansion.  And prices have been climbing on Amazon all day.  I nabbed Forbidden Stars for $68 just before things started taking off.  Suffice it to say that if there are any FFG/GW games you are interested in, don't count on getting a bargain this holiday season.

Edited by DailyRich

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Not super surprising. FFG directly competing with Warhammer Age of Sigmar with their Runewars miniatures game was kind of a signal, along with GW increasing the number of tie-in boardgames they have been putting out. I didn't realize Fury of Dracula was a GW IP, sad to see that go. I feel bad for the Conquest players out there too :(

^ This.

 

FFG knew that Runewars would compromise their license but went ahead with it anyway.

 

Really pisses me off, the GW games they made were (mostly) great. Conquest is a great game and had the potential to become one of the best 40k Universe games out there.

 

What we have to worry about on these boards is whether or not Asmodee/FFG are sensible enough to keep to the T&C's concerning their license with the Mouse.

 

Cheers

Baaa

 

 

Well, GW left a gap when they decided to kill Warhammer Fantasy. So, why wouldn't FFG jump in and take advantage of that fact?

GW is claiming that they are primarily a manufacturer for excellent miniatures. FFG does make excellent games. If both would have been excellent to each other, unbelivable things would have happened.

 

There's a massive misconception about the AoS makeover.

 

I've been a 40k player since the early '90's.

 

I have one army, a full company of Space Marines. I only buy the relevant new codices and rulebooks, and any new models that will either enhance my army or that appeal to me. In short, at this present moment I spend more on X-Wing than I do on 40k because my collection is at the point where I don't need a massive input of new material.

 

I am not the demographic that a company wants to attract, be that GW or any company.

 

The vast majority of Fantasy players I know were at the same point with their respective armies as I am with my 40k one. They simply were not generating sales because they didn't need the stuff and new players were not as attracted to the Fantasy world as they were to the 40k one.

 

Fantasy, much loved as it was, was not making money. End of. GW is a business; if something isn't making money, kill it.

 

The vast majority of bitching about GW comes from Codex hoppers; "Tau are great now, buy an army". "****, Eldar are better, sell Tau and buy Eldar" etc.

 

Fantasy, as it was (from a business sense) had to die.

 

When FFG took out their license with GW, Fantasy was very much alive; they entered willingly into the contract knowing that making a Fantasy type miniatures game would compromise this.

 

Cheers

Baaa

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Translation: "We are sick of GW's crap so were not working with them anymore, but were saying it nicely"

I don't think "crap" drives business decisions as much as some people think.  It's more likely, "We can't hit profitability margins with the license fee GW is insisting on."

 

It was a mutually beneficial arrangement until it wasn't.

 

Probably not.  If they can profit on products paying for the Star Wars license, then they can make money on the 40K license.

 

This may be a priority shift for one of the two companies. FFG might be planning to double down on Star Wars, or GW is bringing more of their license back in house. In the end, assets are finite. For every writer/designer you have working on one project, that's other projects you aren't working on. We know that GW almost doubled its design staff the last two years, which is why new books and new armies have been slamming the shelves (whereas before there was a 4-5 year turnaround on new codex books and such). Before that, they just didn't have enough in-house assets to cover every project (hence why fringe armies like SIsters of Battle never got new minis or "real" codex updates).

 

FFG may also have decided that the cost of the 40K license didn't make sense for their future business strategies. To make money on license products, you either have to have really low production costs, or sell lots of product. FFG may have noticed a drop-off on their sales of 40K-related material. RPGs especially have a problem with that, as the used market eats into your sales, and there's a finite amount of products you can reasonably create for it. Games Workshop's had that problem with 40K (and Fantasy before it was dumped). After 30 years, there were so many 40K models on the secondary markets their main competitor wasn't Warmahordes or Bolt Action, it was EBay, lol. They struggled for a long time to figure out what they could sell to their customers. Hence why there was that awful stretch of "Flyers! Superheavies! Big walkers! Giant walkers!". You didn't have one of those yet.   If Dark Heresy and its kin are slowing down in sales, FFG may have just decided that the carrying costs for those products just don't make financial sense anymore.

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