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chriscook

Hey guys, does the mc30 torpedo need to have initiative to work?

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I think it depends upon the rest of your fleet, but the MC30 really does like going first.  If you're gunning for first, I'd really think the 12 point bid is necessary, though that depends upon your local meta.  You might need more in some areas, or less might be fine in others.

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I tend to design lists to go second, so I also tend to avoid the MC30. I want to fly this ship more, but have this untested, subconscious fear that I just won't do it justice without initiative. I feel like it could definitely survive going second if Mothma is commanding, but haven't tried it. Would love to hear more answers to your question.

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It absolutely doesn't need first to work, but it does work easier with it.  Having more than one mitigates going 2nd some.  You have to plan ahead and use it as a trap/area denial.

 

I ran 3 MC30/2 CR90 most of Wave 2 in tournaments, and forced myself to go 2nd even when I had initiative to learn how to use it going 2nd.  It's much less forgiving, but still completely doable.  Having objectives that force engagement (Fire Lanes/Intel Sweep) are important, too.  You couldn't ask for a better Advanced Gunnery ship, either.  Hits like a truck and is cheap so if it dies, the game isn't an auto-loss.

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It helps to use two of them in tandem. That way you can force some hard choices for your opponent's first activation. I'm also a huge advocate of always using the titles and using them with Mon Mothma. It makes them damned near impossible to kill at any range but close, which is where you want to be anyway.

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The MC30 is a lovely ship but I think anyone who knows how to use it well can use it well either first or second. The key is using it well!

 

Takes a bunch of practice and craft unless you naturally take to it in your play style. I think its important to be very aware of what role you are expecting the ship to play in your fleet. If they have to do the heavy lifting, or if you use it to threaten a flank with its crazy speed.

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One of the tricks for going second is to have more than one "trick" going on. If your only threat that turn is the MC30 then they will just move the threatened ship.. but if you have something else threatened elsewhere as well, then they have to make a choice.

This. Armada is a game of presenting your opponent with only bad choices, and being able to do this well can really mess with them and what they thought they would be doing with first player

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No.

It's a nice crutch for learning how to use them, but you really don't need it once you're comfortable with flying them, and how the setup/activation order works.  What you do need is a way to guarantee that you'll get 1-2 good shots off, from two arcs, and be able to back it up.  Ways to do this include:

Rieekan

Activation advantage

Mon Mothma

Activation advantage

Initiative

Forking (forcing bad choices)

Activation advantage

Hyperspace Assault

Titles

Lando

Activation advantage

Any combination of the above

Activation advantage

One of these items is more important than any of the others.

Also, the enabling factor:  you need to be able to 1) identify early which ship(s) you're going to kill, and 2) position yourself at deployment in such a way to allow your MC30s quick access to those ships.  This means high deployment count, good reading of your opponent's list, and/or Superior Positions.

Player 1 is just the cherry on top of a well-laid-out overall plan of execution for MC30Ts.

The list I'm currently kicking around (recently changed from Dodonna/APTs to Rieekan/RR thanks to the extraordinary number of Interdictors in my local meta at the moment):

REBEL FLEET (389 points)
1 • MC30c Torpedo Frigate - Skilled First Officer - Ordnance Experts - Rapid Reload - H9 Turbolasers - Admonition (92)
2 • MC30c Torpedo Frigate - Skilled First Officer - Ordnance Experts - Rapid Reload - H9 Turbolasers (84)
3 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Slicer Tools - Bright Hope (27)
4 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Slicer Tools - Quantum Storm (26)
5 • GR-75 Medium Transports - General Rieekan - Comms Net (50)
6 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Comms Net (20)
7 • A-wing Squadron (11)
8 • A-wing Squadron (11)
9 • A-wing Squadron (11)
10 • A-wing Squadron (11)
11 • A-wing Squadron (11)
12 • A-wing Squadron (11)
13 • HWK-290 (12)
14 • HWK-290 (12)
15 • Objectives - Most Wanted - Hyperspace Assault - Superior Positions (0)

http://armada.fabpsb.net/permalink.php?sq=r17o26w5n3t2f17r17o26w5n3t2r29b1f26r29b1f27r29c8b2r29b2r13r13r13r13r13r13r25r25r0a2a8a12

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It helps to use two of them in tandem. That way you can force some hard choices for your opponent's first activation. I'm also a huge advocate of always using the titles and using them with Mon Mothma. It makes them damned near impossible to kill at any range but close, which is where you want to be anyway.

You guys should look at cracken. I actually like him more in close range than mothma.

To the OP I have a really hard time with using them offensively when I don't have initiative. When that happens I prefer to use them defensively as escorts for things like yavaris or a liberty.

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well, I might not be equally skilled than players who succeed to make every situation advantageous to them and have no problem setting up everything right whatever the opponent does, but having activation advantage and being first player helps my torpedo frigate, no doubt. You are in command, you go in last and also have the chance to move your squads first to maybe bind his non-rogue squads that set up where the mc30 might end to attack it. you make sure no carrier activates after you moved close, or before you shoot and move away or ram. Ideally, you kill the carrier, or the lead whale, or Demolisher before they ever get a chance. you park the mc30 in front or aft of ackbars.

course things also can go wrong, horribly so (thats where Lando and Admo come into play), but I still feel in command generally. Spamming nav makes my Mc30 much more likely to survive, I gave up giving the cf command for one die, its not worth the extra yaw or speed from nav.

best oc is, as has been said here, that you set up so that opponent moves towards you so you can shoot last, then move, still be in black range and attack first next round and then move away or to another threat. That happens sometimes, or can be forced by skilled play, especially when opponents do not appreciate the full potential of some Mc30 configurations. But again, I think the average opponent would like to be first player against your torp frigate.

No doubt getting all that as second player is very nice and you play your own objectives. Also, importantly, depends on what you also fly, as has been said correctly. But its a great little ship, underrated by some I think, or not used to full potential.

Edited by NebulonB

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For me the MC30 is all about forcing the "bad and worse" situation for your opponent, which has also been mentioned above. The titles that can be taken make the ships very survivable, even up close, meaning that mingling with the opposing fleet is possible and thereby aiding the forcing of a choice.

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After running 2x MC30T a lot I've come to the conclusion that I prefer Admonition on one and then Lando on the second rather than Foresight as normally they will only be shot at long range or short range. I also think Cracken works best with them but it depends on the rest of your fleet if he is best overall. With TRC90's and Flotillas he is ideal.

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After running 2x MC30T a lot I've come to the conclusion that I prefer Admonition on one and then Lando on the second rather than Foresight as normally they will only be shot at long range or short range. I also think Cracken works best with them but it depends on the rest of your fleet if he is best overall. With TRC90's and Flotillas he is ideal.

 

I agree, without Mon Mothma Advanced Projectors or Lando is a much better deal than Foresight. 

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I've run three MC-30s before plus a few other cheap ships and with like 5 activations it's more forgiving.   Plus, even if your opponent blows one up, you've still got 2 more than can shoot this round, so it makes you feel like you have a zerg swarm of MC-30s. 

 

  Since the torpedo versions don't have red dice, but DO have turbolaser you can always give them enhanced armament and run ackbar, allowing your MC-30s to roll rainbow dice!

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I've seen this variant:

 

 

385/400

 

CR90 Corellian Corvette A - Admiral Ackbar (38)    - Projection Experts (6)

MC30c Scout Frigate - Lando Calrissian (4)    - Ordnance Experts (4)    - Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)    - Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)

MC30c Scout Frigate - Ordnance Experts (4)    - Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)    - Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)    - Foresight (8)

MC30c Scout Frigate - Ordnance Experts (4)    - Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)    - Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)    - Admonition (8)

2 x A-wing Squadron

 

 

It tried to stay away and advantage the red dice with evades, but if you close it has blacks to punish you.

 

 

 

HA!   Crabbok just beat me to the post...

Edited by SirDave

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Since the torpedo versions don't have red dice, but DO have turbolaser you can always give them enhanced armament and run ackbar, allowing your MC-30s to roll rainbow dice!

The Torpedo version can use Akbar without the Enhanced Armament, it just can't benefit from him at long range since there's no reds in the pool to add to.

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The torp version plays well as a blocker if you have first or second activation. I like to get my opposition to drift into its arcs. I use a mixture of long guns ( Neb bs work great) and missions to force my opponent into the MC30. First or second player MC30 torp. Boats work best if the other guy needs to come through it.

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