Confirmation of Engage movement please?

[DarwinsDog 150]

I am confused about what to do when a monster is instructed to engage a figure that it can't possibly reach due to other obstacles.

 

The specific situation that I ran into was this:

The zombies had +2 movement from the activation special rules.

Their first action was to engage the hero with the most damage suffered. This was Avric Albright (light blue circle) here.

The next action was to attack an adjacent hero. The first three zombies did this with no trouble. Since there was no specific target for the attacks I divided the attacks between Avric and Syndrael (green circle) as per the rules on deciding.

Then came zombie number four (yellow circle). It had no way of getting adjacent to Avric, but it could move closer by following the yellow path. There were no other movement actions listed (and no retreats), so nothing else to go on. 

In the end I decided that this was closer to Avric (as per moving "towards" an enemy), so it would go here and attack Syndrael (it's only target). 

 

Is this what you would have done?

 

Now to get nitpicky for the sake of discussion. Imagine that the zombie started one space closer to Avric. Now the starting and ending space are both the same distance (2 spaces) from the target of the engage move. Is it still moving towards Avric at that point?

 

How would you rule this?

 

I would say that the zombie still moves next to Syndrael, but I can see an argument that it just moves up behind one of the others and waits, as that would result in a shorter distance.

 

In the end I'll just do whatever makes the most sense at the time, but I would like to stay true to the rules as much as possible. Thanks!

[Alarmed 257]

Of course, you inject the cunning you want in the App's instructions, based on your group's skill, so if you want to, it's perfectly al (b)right to have your zombie go straight for Avric.

 

However,I believe the engage action includes an assumption that you can only move to valid targets. In your example, the zombie has no access to Avric, so would not choose him as "most wounded hero"

[Voidez 8]

>Starting and ending space are same distance from target

Roll Blue die. 1-3 stay on place, 4-6 move

Also defence dies make great scatter to decide, direction of Ettin throw

[Rauhughes 502]

Exactly this. As the Zombie can't physically engage Albright he would not select him as the target, making syndrael the only legal target.

[any2cards 2,508]

Exactly this. As the Zombie can't physically engage Albright he would not select him as the target, making syndrael the only legal target.

 

This is incorrect.  Engage is defined as the following (RTL: Page 8):

 

When engaging, a figure is trying to get adjacent to a target. It performs a move action and moves toward the target (see “Toward” on page 9), stopping when it is adjacent or when it runs out of movement points.

 

Note that it performs the movement towards the target, even if it cannot successfully get adjacent to the target.  There is an exact example of this in the rules on Page 8 as well.

[Rauhughes 502]

Agreed, but am I wrong when I say there is a separate paragraph concerning 'targets' and that only a viable model can be determined as the target, so models who cannot be chosen for adjacency would be ignored.

For example Nanock is 8 squares away with 10 health suffered and Albright is 2 squares away with no health suffered. If the action is 'engage the hero with most damage' the zombies cannot engage Nanock so they engage Albright. Surely the same is true if Nanock is within range but surrounded (and thus impossible to engage)

[Voidez 8]

Agreed, but am I wrong when I say there is a separate paragraph concerning 'targets' and that only a viable model can be determined as the target, so models who cannot be chosen for adjacency would be ignored.

For example Nanock is 8 squares away with 10 health suffered and Albright is 2 squares away with no health suffered. If the action is 'engage the hero with most damage' the zombies cannot engage Nanock so they engage Albright. Surely the same is true if Nanock is within range but surrounded (and thus impossible to engage)

I believe, you are.

 

let's check engage example on page 8:

zombie #2 can't engage hero with highest [book]  (Leoric) so by your logic, he should be excluded from target pool, and zombie #2 should engage Grisban, who are in 3 spaces.

 

but from that example we can conclude, that zombie #2 still moves toward target with highest [book] on field.

 

also, by your logic, if zombie can't engage any hero (everyone is farther than 4 spaces), it will stay on place.

 

also, could you point or quote which paragraph you are reffering?

Edited September 2, 2016 by Voidez

[any2cards 2,508]

I agree with Voidez.  By RAW, you don't get to decide what "is possible" or "achievable" as a target.  You fulfill that "contract" as much as possible, by moving towards the target, and doing your best to engage (get adjacent, or one space away in the case of monsters that have Reach), even if your best is to only get 3 spaces away (as an example).

 

This is why you cycle through the commands.  You may end up engaging twice.  Granted, you may not attack this turn, but all of that movement will most assuredly get you closer to the heroes, thus putting them in the position of having to move forward with their plans, or potentially back track to deal with the monsters coming up on their rear (so to speak).

[Rauhughes 502]

Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think I would amend the way I play. Having monsters waste activations trying to get into an in achievable target seems like it makes things a little too easy.

Maybe why were 0 - 3 in this current platt through however!! Haha

[Alarmed 257]

But keep in mind the following from Page 10 of the RTL rules

Decision making:

...

How the decision making is approached is largely up to the play group. new players or players looking for an easier experience are free to steer the monsters towards choices that favour the heroes. Players looking for a true test of skill should steer the monsters towards the tactical maneuvers that a skilled overlord would employ.

 

This goes back to my first post in this thread: The answer is depending on what you wanted. If you wanted to go easy on the players, then yes, the zombies should try to engage Avric, even though there is no more room around him. If you want a challenge, engage Syndrael.

[DarwinsDog 150]

...get adjacent, or one space away in the case of monsters that have Reach...

Even monsters with reach are trying to get adjacent. They just usually have an attack command like "attack a hero within 2 spaces."

[Voidez 8]

. If you wanted to go easy on the players, then yes, the zombies should try to engage Avric, even though there is no more room around him. If you want a challenge, engage Syndrael.

except you are cherry-picking from rules

DECISION-MAKING

When resolving app instructions, players frequently have multiple options. When this happens, it is up to the players to decide how to resolve it within the confines of the provided instructions. 

How the decision-making is approached is largely up to the play group. New players or players looking for a easier experience are free to steer the monsters toward choices that favor the heroes. Players looking for a true test of skill should steer the monsters toward the tactical maneuvers that a skilled overlord would employ.

 

so this part

 

How the decision-making is approached is largely up to the play group. New players or players looking for a easier experience are free to steer the monsters toward choices that favor the heroes.

refers to situations, wheh two options to execute same action are present.

i.e.:

two heroes to attack (syndrael and avric from Darwin_dog's example)

or selecting target from two heroes with same [book] value on the field from example

 

Actions that require a target often provide the priority used to select that target (such as the hero with the highest [might] or most [heart] suffered). If there is a tie when selecting the target, select the closest target. If there is still a tie, the players are free to choose as they wish (see “Decision-Making” on page 10).

 

and doesn't nullify rules from engage. 

 

and again, example on page 8.

second zombie can engade and attack grisban, but still moves toward leoric.

 

in any case, you always can homerule something, if you feel that it would improve your experience.