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derekstanggt

Protectorate vs Kihraxz

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Sorry if this has been discussed, I may have missed it. 

 

What is the reasoning behind the Protectorate?  To me, it's so much better than the Kihraxz, and at the same cost, that I would never take the K again.  

 

The Protectorate has a better dial.  More maneuvers, more tricky turnarounds, and more greens.  Sure you lose the 1 banks, but I'll gladly take the additional maneuvers over 1 banks.  

 

The Protectorate has an EPT at PS 3, instead of needing PS 5 on the K.  Also, Graz with no EPT?  Dumb.

 

The pilot abilities on the Protectorate blow the K away.  Sure Talonbane's is cool, 4 green dice at range 3, 5 red at range one.  But I'd rather have Rau's, 5 red dice at 1, 4 green at 1.  I still get 4 green at 3, plus I get an option for autothrusters.  

 

Here is where some may have differing opinions:  1 shield for the K and 2 agility; 0 shield for Protectorate but 3 agility.  Give me 3 agility and one less shield all day, IMHO.

 

Also, the Protectorate is much more flexible.  You can arc dodge with some of the best in the game, but the abilities also encourage (and reward) jousting.  I'll take that flexibility in a heartbeat, that way I can change mid-game if I need to.   

 

So is the Protectorate Scum's A-wing and the K is still Scum's X-wing?  Was that the reasoning?  Or was the Protectorate an admission by FFG that they messed up the Kihraxz??

Edited by derekstanggt

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The protectorate is something that scum was sorely lacking: a strong ace in a maneuverable ship at high native PS. Think of the khiraxz as the analogue to the tie advanced, and the protectorate as the analogue to the interceptor.

The khiraxz is a touch better than a naked advance, and the protectorate is a touch better than a naked interceptor.

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Basically its proof Khiraxz will be in Scum Aces expansion with a defender type fix to reduce it by 2 points, or maybe give a free illicit upgrade (since it has that going for it over the Protectorate at least). You could then run five Khiraxz with feedback array :P

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Totally agree with the analysis only thing K has going for it is the illicit. I'm thinking of running both 9 Ps pilots with fearlessness for maximum damage. Can totally see a title that adds another illicit coming. I hope soon

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Totally agree with the analysis only thing K has going for it is the illicit. I'm thinking of running both 9 Ps pilots with fearlessness for maximum damage. Can totally see a title that adds another illicit coming. I hope soon

Dont forget to add zuckuss i to the mix! Could throw 18 possible hits with 3 Ships at range 1.

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I did a couple Vassal games with both Fenn and Cobra. They compliment each other well. Vector helps Cobra a great deal. Save Fearlessness as a finishing move for a target ship, so they wont live long enough to return fire. These are the squads I ran:

 

95 points

Fenn: Title, Fearlessness, Auto Thrusters

Old Teroch: VI Auto thrusters

Cobra: Fearlessness, Vectored Thrusters. Cloaking Device

 

99 points

Fenn: Title, Fearlessness, Auto Thrusters

Cobra: Fearlessness, Vectored Thrusters. Cloaking Device

Zuckuss: 4-Lom, VI, Title, Tractor beam, Fire control System, Inertial Dampeners

 

Enjoy,

D.

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Push the Limit is a total waste on Talonbane Cobra, especially if you're taking Glitterstim.  You'd be better off taking Predator, or Crackshot, or even Adaptability so you know he shoots first.

 

The guy has TWO ACTIONS.  Target Lock and Focus.  Glitterstim GIVES YOU FOCUS.  And self-stressing leaves you unable to exploit that glorious 5K to disengage.

 

I'd only ever contemplate taking Push The Limit on Talonbane if he had Vectored Thrusters, but probably not even then.  Don't turn him into a points sink.  He's a glass hammer, cheap and cheerful all the way.

 

This topic does seem familiar - I remember having an intense debate with - who was it again, fickle?  It's usually fickle - over the relative merits of the two ships.  But I can't for the life of me remember what topic it was.

 

Anyway, there's some discussion on the subject here https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/225777-rip-talonbane-cobra/

 

and here

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/225777-rip-talonbane-cobra/

 

Personally, I see them both as entirely different ships.  The Kihraxz is a straight up, no-nonsense jouster; the Protectorate has abilities which make it want to go screaming into a head to head confrontation, but would seem to prefer an arc dodging role.

 

I prefer the Kihraxz' generics.  20 points for a naked Cartel Marauder trumps 20 points for a naked Zealous recruit, and the Black Sun Ace's ability to take Illicit upgrades makes it a more useful all round  candidate than either the Concord Dawn Ace or Concord Dawn Veteran in my book (although there's definitely room for both PS5 pilots, especially in Mindlink lists).

 

The Fang definitely has the edge with it's named pilots, however; Fenn Rau and Old Teroch are looking pretty damned good.

 

I've got 5 Kihraxz (and want a couple more).  I'm likely to get just one Fang, I think.

Edited by FTS Gecko

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Push the Limit is a total waste on Talonbane Cobra, especially if you're taking Glitterstim.  You'd be better off taking Predator, or Crackshot, or even Adaptability so you know he shoots first.

 

The guy has TWO ACTIONS.  Target Lock and Focus.  Glitterstim GIVES YOU FOCUS.  And self-stressing leaves you unable to exploit that glorious 5K to disengage.

 

I'd only ever contemplate taking Push The Limit on Talonbane if he had Vectored Thrusters, but probably not even then.  Don't turn him into a points sink.  He's a glass hammer, cheap and cheerful all the way.

Funnily enough, I'm going to fly this as soon as I get the chance -

 

Fenn Rau (28)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Concord Dawn Protector (1)

Old Teroch (26)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Autothrusters (2)

Concord Dawn Protector (1)

Talonbane Cobra (28)

Push the Limit (3)

"Hot Shot" Blaster (3)

Vectored Thrusters (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

 

Cheers

Baaa

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Interesting list Baaa, and you do have points to spare after the Fangs are kitted out.  Personally I'd still go a couple of other ways with TBC though.  Predator instead of PtL so he always gets modifiers, and maybe even the Illicit Cloaking Device instead of the Hot Shot Blaster so he gets a little bit of extra protection when closing, and becomes even more unpredictable with his movement.

 

But yeah, I used to give TBC Expert Handling, so I'm looking forward to Vector Thrusters.

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Kithraxz is overpriced. Previously by 1pt, though the new baseline set by Jumpmasters means I'm no longer actually confident in that statement.

 

I'm actually not convinced that the baseline Protectorate Fighter is properly priced either, incidentally - but at least they're not as poorly priced as Alpha Squadron craft, so we shall see. To think on it: Do you feel the Alpha Squadron Pilot would have been a good buy at 17 pts instead of 18? If so, the Protectorate Starfighter will be fine. If not... well, that's what it kinda is. Adjust expectations accordingly. ;)

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Totally agree with the analysis only thing K has going for it is the illicit. I'm thinking of running both 9 Ps pilots with fearlessness for maximum damage. Can totally see a title that adds another illicit coming. I hope soon

Dont forget to add zuckuss i to the mix! Could throw 18 possible hits with 3 Ships at range 1.

 

 

 

FEARLESS SCUM

99 points

 

PILOTS

Talonbane Cobra (36)

Kihraxz Fighter (28), Fearlessness (1), Advanced Homing Missiles (3), Cloaking Device (2), Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

N’Dru Suhlak (25)

Z-95 Headhunter (17), Cluster Missiles (4), Glitterstim (2), Lone Wolf (2), Guidance Chips (0)

Fenn Rau (38)

Protectorate Starfighter (28), Fearlessness (1), Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6), Concord Dawn Protector (1), Autothrusters (2)

Not saying it will be particularly competitive but there will be some matches where everything works as designed. Also if we do get a title have some points I can easily take off. Fearlessness on N'dru would be very funny, but I doubt he would A survive B not be within range to use his ability.

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Totally agree with the analysis only thing K has going for it is the illicit. I'm thinking of running both 9 Ps pilots with fearlessness for maximum damage. Can totally see a title that adds another illicit coming. I hope soon

Dont forget to add zuckuss i to the mix! Could throw 18 possible hits with 3 Ships at range 1.

 

 

 

FEARLESS SCUM

99 points

 

PILOTS

Talonbane Cobra (36)

Kihraxz Fighter (28), Fearlessness (1), Advanced Homing Missiles (3), Cloaking Device (2), Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

N’Dru Suhlak (25)

Z-95 Headhunter (17), Cluster Missiles (4), Glitterstim (2), Lone Wolf (2), Guidance Chips (0)

Fenn Rau (38)

Protectorate Starfighter (28), Fearlessness (1), Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6), Concord Dawn Protector (1), Autothrusters (2)

Not saying it will be particularly competitive but there will be some matches where everything works as designed. Also if we do get a title have some points I can easily take off. Fearlessness on N'dru would be very funny, but I doubt he would A survive B not be within range to use his ability.

 

if you took out Talonbane Cobra and put in Manaroo it would be so much better.

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I do hope the Kihraxz gets a good fix. It is one of my favorite models, looks great on the table. We need more aces as well, scum are short on pilots.

I am excited, but worried about the starfighter. I think it's gonna suffer not having the evade. One more hull than a tie Interceptor will be gone after the first round of shooting, but the tie interceptor will keep getting the evade token in subsequent rounds. I am afraid the starfighter needs 4 green dice inherent, or the two mod slots like the Tie Interceptor. I still pre ordered two.

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Kithraxz is overpriced. Previously by 1pt, though the new baseline set by Jumpmasters means I'm no longer actually confident in that statement.

 

I'm actually not convinced that the baseline Protectorate Fighter is properly priced either, incidentally - but at least they're not as poorly priced as Alpha Squadron craft, so we shall see. To think on it: Do you feel the Alpha Squadron Pilot would have been a good buy at 17 pts instead of 18? If so, the Protectorate Starfighter will be fine. If not... well, that's what it kinda is. Adjust expectations accordingly. ;)

Large bases have always gotten a discount for being a large base, just none as severely as the Jumpmaster, likely to avoid another Outer Rim Smuggler/Wild Space Fringer situation.

Kihraxz is definitely a point too much, generic protectorate is likely about 2 points too much. Gaining boost/roll and an agility do not make up for losing a shield. It means the unique Pilots are better off than those on the Kihraxz, but the generics on both ships are absolutely over priced. Compare the Protectorate to the generic interceptors. The Alpha squadron is over priced at 18 with the evade action but fewer hull. Therefore, the protectorate, with an additional hull, should have probably been the same price, but it's lack of evade is another big detriment in its comparison.

I'm not sure about the uniques. Teroch and Fenn should see play. The generics are pretty much DoA.

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PS 1 Kihraxz is better than the PS 1 Fang Fighter for jousting.  The Kihraxz has the extra shield and the only reason you would need the better dial/boost/br is if you are trying to go for a blocker with the fang.  

 

I'm still waiting for the Kihraxz fix.  Personally, I hope it's several different titles that take it in different directions.  It's supposed to be one of the most customizable ships in the galaxy, so why not give it different titles to do different things?

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Totally agree with the analysis only thing K has going for it is the illicit. I'm thinking of running both 9 Ps pilots with fearlessness for maximum damage. Can totally see a title that adds another illicit coming. I hope soon

Dont forget to add zuckuss i to the mix! Could throw 18 possible hits with 3 Ships at range 1.

 

 

 

FEARLESS SCUM

99 points

 

PILOTS

Talonbane Cobra (36)

Kihraxz Fighter (28), Fearlessness (1), Advanced Homing Missiles (3), Cloaking Device (2), Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

N’Dru Suhlak (25)

Z-95 Headhunter (17), Cluster Missiles (4), Glitterstim (2), Lone Wolf (2), Guidance Chips (0)

Fenn Rau (38)

Protectorate Starfighter (28), Fearlessness (1), Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6), Concord Dawn Protector (1), Autothrusters (2)

Not saying it will be particularly competitive but there will be some matches where everything works as designed. Also if we do get a title have some points I can easily take off. Fearlessness on N'dru would be very funny, but I doubt he would A survive B not be within range to use his ability.

 

if you took out Talonbane Cobra and put in Manaroo it would be so much better.

 

I agree, it would probably make it more competitive, but I have no desire to buy or fly a jumpmaster

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PS 1 Kihraxz is better than the PS 1 Fang Fighter for jousting.  

 

Even for pure jousting, de PSF is slightly better than the Kihraxz or than a mangler scyk (just in the same cost)

 

 

Reasoning is, one day, there will come a Khiraxixcxcck fix and it will maybe be worth considering.

Just this.
 
Maybe in a not too distant future, a Scum aces box put a scyk / Kihraxz only title like:
 
Builded for piracy: If you equip a illicit upgrade, its squad point cost is reduced by 2 (to a minimum of 0). 
 
And a scyk / Kihraxz only mod like:
 
Illegal cargo: Your upgrade bar gains the illicit icon.
 
Or something completely different but equally good.
 
And then, without being strictly better than a protectorate starfighter, the three of them could have their use even in competitive play.

PS 1 Kihraxz is better than the PS 1 Fang Fighter for jousting.  

 

Even for pure jousting, de PSF is slightly better than the Kihraxz or than a mangler scyk (just in the same cost)

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PS 1 Kihraxz is better than the PS 1 Fang Fighter for jousting.  

 

Even for pure jousting, de PSF is slightly better than the Kihraxz or than a mangler scyk (just in the same cost)

 

 

How so?  They are the same points and the Kihraxz has 1 Shield more.  

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