Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Garro

Mon Karren Thoughts

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

 

Been lucky enough to get a couple of wave 3/4 games lately and have been trying out the Mc80 Liberty.

Initially I thought it was going to be a poor ship, under achieving for its cost, my last few games have proved me wrong on that count (happily, I might add).

 

I've been running this setup so far:

 

Mc80 Star Cruiser

Mon Karren

Intel officer

Engine Techs

Gunnery team

SW-7 Ion batteries

XI7 turbolasers

 

Along with Madine this thing is supremely maneuverable dealing an average of 5 - 7 damage per shot which is very difficult to mitigate.

 

But i'm wondering about the Mon Karren title, it seems pretty redundant alongside XI7s.  If the target has a brace it's likely to use it and with XI7s do I really care if they can redirect 1 damage as well?  IS it worth 8 points to stop them doing that? Do I really care at long range if an Mc30 evades 1 dice and then redirects 1 damage?

 

I'm not saying it's a bad title it has loads of uses on other setups but on this one, with XI7s I just don't know if it's worth it?

 

I'm curious as well what kind of setups people have had success with the title in?

Edited by Garro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're only using one of its two Turbolaser slots? Heresy!

 

I have to admit the ship has impressed me as well. Here's what my opponent uses often.

 

Mon Karren

Lando Calrissian

Medical Team

Gunnery Team

SW-7 Ion Batteries

XI7 turbolasers

Spinal Armament

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The TWO Turbolasers are best used if you have TWO Liberties and are fielding one without the Mon Karren title.  

XI7 is a complete waste on that thing, as are anything that limits what defensive tokens your opponent can use - so HTT, Quad Turbolasres, H9, - all of it is pointless with that title. 

 

Obviously Spinal Armament is the best option, (though in same cases it is acceptable to go with Enhanced Armament for the well-rounded approach, especially if you have the tendency to leave your MC-80 all by itself). 

 

  What you CAN do if you REALLY want to use a 2nd Turbolaser slot is use Spinal Armament and XX-9 for the double face-up crit, which works better now, especially with the rise of Interdictors which can only cancel the regular crit, and not the double crit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to be the odd one out so far and say keep XI7 and Mon Karren together if possible but there are a couple of qualifiers. First, keep in mind that XI7s don't have quite as much overlap as MK + HTT. XI7s straight nullify redirects whether you use one token or not.

 

MK is a good title but it is expensive. Like a lot of these type of upgrades a lot has to do with perspective. If you take XI7s with MK switch the text text "Do 1 more damage to opposing medium/large ships." Just with the way the defense tokens interact with XI7s and MK, you are really paying to push through a bit more damage. Another benefit to MK+XI7s is that it actually lets you push through a standard crit effect more often. due to this I think MK is better than spinal because it is slightly cheaper and a more reliable way to stick one more damage through.

 

MK w/XI7s is good but its not overpowering. I say if you have the points keep them together, but if you have to drop 1 first drop MK. If you are outfitting Liberty, reach for XI7s first (XI7s may be broken because how ubiquitous they are), then MK. Sprinkle the last turbolaser upgrade to taste.

 

I'm currently running:

[ flagship ] MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
-  General Madine  ( 30  points) 
-  Mon Karren  ( 8  points) 
-  Lando Callriassian  ( 4  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Spinal Armament  ( 9  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points) 

 

The upgrades are a a little more chosen on how I prefer to fly. MK and XI7s plus spinal are there so I can push a little more damage from long range. 5 dice with a CF has a pretty good chance of rolling a natural accuracy but MK provides good insurance. I take Leading shots over SW7s since once I hit blue dice range, making sure all those reds count just seems more important to me. Every face of the blue die is helpful and leading shots makes sure I don't wast some blue accuracies and let me make sure the red dice behave because while they are more unreliable they still have a higher damage ceiling. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Problem is when ECM stops your Accuracy from blocking the brace.

 

Mon Karren, XI7, and Intel Officer will either stop the enemy from bracing or remove the brace from the game. ECM does nothing.

I agree on you on just ECMing the brace but Intel Officer won't stop the brace from helping one turn, which could be enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm leaning toward dropping Mon Karren I think, possibly as Gink said add XX-9s to get passed contain (and make precision strike a little more amusing) and just put the 3 pts toward a bit.

8 pts to essentially stop someone redirecting 1 damage is a bit steep I guess.

 

Can see Mon Karren being great on any build that lacks X17s though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to be the odd one out so far and say keep XI7 and Mon Karren together if possible but there are a couple of qualifiers. First, keep in mind that XI7s don't have quite as much overlap as MK + HTT. XI7s straight nullify redirects whether you use one token or not.

 

MK is a good title but it is expensive. Like a lot of these type of upgrades a lot has to do with perspective. If you take XI7s with MK switch the text text "Do 1 more damage to opposing medium/large ships." Just with the way the defense tokens interact with XI7s and MK, you are really paying to push through a bit more damage. Another benefit to MK+XI7s is that it actually lets you push through a standard crit effect more often. due to this I think MK is better than spinal because it is slightly cheaper and a more reliable way to stick one more damage through.

 

MK w/XI7s is good but its not overpowering. I say if you have the points keep them together, but if you have to drop 1 first drop MK. If you are outfitting Liberty, reach for XI7s first (XI7s may be broken because how ubiquitous they are), then MK. Sprinkle the last turbolaser upgrade to taste.

 

I'm currently running:

[ flagship ] MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)

-  General Madine  ( 30  points) 

-  Mon Karren  ( 8  points) 

-  Lando Callriassian  ( 4  points) 

-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 

-  Spinal Armament  ( 9  points) 

-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 

-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points) 

 

The upgrades are a a little more chosen on how I prefer to fly. MK and XI7s plus spinal are there so I can push a little more damage from long range. 5 dice with a CF has a pretty good chance of rolling a natural accuracy but MK provides good insurance. I take Leading shots over SW7s since once I hit blue dice range, making sure all those reds count just seems more important to me. Every face of the blue die is helpful and leading shots makes sure I don't wast some blue accuracies and let me make sure the red dice behave because while they are more unreliable they still have a higher damage ceiling. 

 

 

Can I just ask: Why the Star Cruiser instead of the Battle Cruiser? Is it because of points?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I'm going to be the odd one out so far and say keep XI7 and Mon Karren together if possible but there are a couple of qualifiers. First, keep in mind that XI7s don't have quite as much overlap as MK + HTT. XI7s straight nullify redirects whether you use one token or not.

 

MK is a good title but it is expensive. Like a lot of these type of upgrades a lot has to do with perspective. If you take XI7s with MK switch the text text "Do 1 more damage to opposing medium/large ships." Just with the way the defense tokens interact with XI7s and MK, you are really paying to push through a bit more damage. Another benefit to MK+XI7s is that it actually lets you push through a standard crit effect more often. due to this I think MK is better than spinal because it is slightly cheaper and a more reliable way to stick one more damage through.

 

MK w/XI7s is good but its not overpowering. I say if you have the points keep them together, but if you have to drop 1 first drop MK. If you are outfitting Liberty, reach for XI7s first (XI7s may be broken because how ubiquitous they are), then MK. Sprinkle the last turbolaser upgrade to taste.

 

I'm currently running:

[ flagship ] MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)

-  General Madine  ( 30  points) 

-  Mon Karren  ( 8  points) 

-  Lando Callriassian  ( 4  points) 

-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 

-  Spinal Armament  ( 9  points) 

-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 

-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points) 

 

The upgrades are a a little more chosen on how I prefer to fly. MK and XI7s plus spinal are there so I can push a little more damage from long range. 5 dice with a CF has a pretty good chance of rolling a natural accuracy but MK provides good insurance. I take Leading shots over SW7s since once I hit blue dice range, making sure all those reds count just seems more important to me. Every face of the blue die is helpful and leading shots makes sure I don't wast some blue accuracies and let me make sure the red dice behave because while they are more unreliable they still have a higher damage ceiling. 

 

 

Can I just ask: Why the Star Cruiser instead of the Battle Cruiser? Is it because of points?

 

Yep. If I could I would go BC but the general rule of why I take MK before Spinal still applies - go for the reliable damage first. One more point than a BS gets me the SC with MK title.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry but those builds are just dumb. I cant help but shake my head at how people try to build Mon Karren.

 

If you have XI7 you need either 1 acc or Intel officer to hit the brace. Mon Karen is almost useless in this situation, well it will prevent reidrecting 1 point of dmg only if the defender has and decides to use contain. That costs you 8 points.

 

If you shoot something smalelr like a Crovette XI7 the redurect acc/intel evade, if 1 evade is left unblocked defender can use it anyway and Mon Karen does nothing again.

 

With every other upgrade restricting use of defense tokens MonKaren loses value. In some rare cases it may do soooomething but remember that you pay 8 points for it on top of other upgrades,

Edited by Microscop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry but those builds are just dumb. I cant help but shake my head at how people try to build Mon Karren.

 

If you have XI7 you need either 1 acc or Intel officer to hit the brace. Mon Karen is almost useless in this situation, well it will prevent reidrecting 1 point of dmg  if the defender has and decides to use contain. That costs you 8 points.

With every other upgrade restricting use of defense tokens MonKaren loses value.

 

Re: Intel Officer; the presence of slicer tools makes Skilled First Officer an attractive choice for anything with a 3 command stack, though, especially if you're navigation strategy relies on Engine Techs.

 

XI7 is good but it almost mandates you to be attacking ships with redirect tokens. 

 

I think Mon Karren is best served on the Battle Chassis, particularly if you're running Enhanced Armaments. Can't count on reds to give you accuracies, and there aren't enough blues to rely on it either. 

 

So, best use for Mon Karren, IMHO is:

 

MC80 Battle(103)

-Mon Karren (8)

-Skilled First Officer (1)

-Enhanced Armaments (or Gunnery Teams) (10/7)

-Leading Shots (4)

Total: 126 (a fairly reasonable large ship pricetag)

Edited by Rocmistro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry but those builds are just dumb. I cant help but shake my head at how people try to build Mon Karren.

 

If you have XI7 you need either 1 acc or Intel officer to hit the brace. Mon Karen is almost useless in this situation, well it will prevent reidrecting 1 point of dmg only if the defender has and decides to use contain. That costs you 8 points.

 

If you shoot something smalelr like a Crovette XI7 the redurect acc/intel evade, if 1 evade is left unblocked defender can use it anyway and Mon Karen does nothing again.

 

With every other upgrade restricting use of defense tokens MonKaren loses value. In some rare cases it may do soooomething but remember that you pay 8 points for it on top of other upgrades,

 

Dumb enough that no one considers the second round of combat vs. and ISD-II or shooting at a MC30c.  But yes, very dumb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry but those builds are just dumb. I cant help but shake my head at how people try to build Mon Karren.

 

If you have XI7 you need either 1 acc or Intel officer to hit the brace. Mon Karen is almost useless in this situation, well it will prevent reidrecting 1 point of dmg only if the defender has and decides to use contain. That costs you 8 points.

 

If you shoot something smalelr like a Crovette XI7 the redurect acc/intel evade, if 1 evade is left unblocked defender can use it anyway and Mon Karen does nothing again.

 

With every other upgrade restricting use of defense tokens MonKaren loses value. In some rare cases it may do soooomething but remember that you pay 8 points for it on top of other upgrades,

I'm not sure you are quite running the scenarios back and forth.

 

1. Intel Officer won't stop the brace. Intel Officer works most efficiently when you can use a smaller hit to drop the toekn but it requires a deft hand since too small of a hit and they won;t use the brace and too big and they'll use it anyway. Putting Intel Officer on the big ships is good, no argument from me, but in my experience it''s been a 50/50 where the Intel Officer has been useful since with my style of play by the time the MC80 shoots it doesn't matter if they brace or not, its a killshot.

 

2. In your contain example run your scenarios to completion with and without MK. If you opponent uses contain you push more damage though to the same hull facing effectively making MK a cheaper spinal armament. If they use the redirect they are only saving them self from 1 additional damage from the hull zone you targeted. Mon Karren is insurance against not rolling an accuracy. It almost operates like a pseudo accuracy.

 

3. Even against a corvette, MK still let's you push one more damage onto the hull zone since they have to either redirect or evade. One more damage point on a corvette is a big deal.

 

As stated before, The MK/XI7 combo lets you push at least 1 more damage against the majority of targets out there. 8 points might seems a little expensive for another point of damage but that is going rate, ala Spinal Armaments are 9 and EA is 10.

 

MK is good just not OP like everyone thought when they first saw it. NOW MK and HTT is pretty worthless...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry but those builds are just dumb. I cant help but shake my head at how people try to build Mon Karren.

 

If you have XI7 you need either 1 acc or Intel officer to hit the brace. Mon Karen is almost useless in this situation, well it will prevent reidrecting 1 point of dmg  if the defender has and decides to use contain. That costs you 8 points.

With every other upgrade restricting use of defense tokens MonKaren loses value.

 

Re: Intel Officer; the presence of slicer tools makes Skilled First Officer an attractive choice for anything with a 3 command stack, though, especially if you're navigation strategy relies on Engine Techs.

 

XI7 is good but it almost mandates you to be attacking ships with redirect tokens. 

 

I think Mon Karren is best served on the Battle Chassis, particularly if you're running Enhanced Armaments. Can't count on reds to give you accuracies, and there aren't enough blues to rely on it either. 

 

So, best use for Mon Karren, IMHO is:

 

MC80 Battle(103)

-Mon Karren (8)

-Skilled First Officer (1)

-Enhanced Armaments (or Gunnery Teams) (10/7)

-Leading Shots (4)

Total: 126 (a fairly reasonable large ship pricetag)

X17 mandates you attack a ship with a redirect... Ok so 69% of ships have redirect. With 44% of those having double. Every medium and large ship has one with 50% of those having double. Odds are it's going to be quite useful.

Also why are you putting EA on that thing???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Sorry but those builds are just dumb. I cant help but shake my head at how people try to build Mon Karren.

 

If you have XI7 you need either 1 acc or Intel officer to hit the brace. Mon Karen is almost useless in this situation, well it will prevent reidrecting 1 point of dmg  if the defender has and decides to use contain. That costs you 8 points.

With every other upgrade restricting use of defense tokens MonKaren loses value.

 

Re: Intel Officer; the presence of slicer tools makes Skilled First Officer an attractive choice for anything with a 3 command stack, though, especially if you're navigation strategy relies on Engine Techs.

 

XI7 is good but it almost mandates you to be attacking ships with redirect tokens. 

 

I think Mon Karren is best served on the Battle Chassis, particularly if you're running Enhanced Armaments. Can't count on reds to give you accuracies, and there aren't enough blues to rely on it either. 

 

So, best use for Mon Karren, IMHO is:

 

MC80 Battle(103)

-Mon Karren (8)

-Skilled First Officer (1)

-Enhanced Armaments (or Gunnery Teams) (10/7)

-Leading Shots (4)

Total: 126 (a fairly reasonable large ship pricetag)

X17 mandates you attack a ship with a redirect... Ok so 69% of ships have redirect. With 44% of those having double. Every medium and large ship has one with 50% of those having double. Odds are it's going to be quite useful.

Also why are you putting EA on that thing???

 

 

Because it's good to double tap?  Gunnery teams is great and all (some of you guys treat it like it's gospel), but I wouldn't necessarily say it's a slam dunk upgrade for this ship (or any other). See the Steel Squadron Article about Gunnery Teams.  (For what it's worth, I also like High Capacity Ion Turbines)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because it's good to double tap?  Gunnery teams is great and all (some of you guys treat it like it's gospel), but I wouldn't necessarily say it's a slam dunk upgrade for this ship (or any other). See the Steel Squadron Article about Gunnery Teams.  (For what it's worth, I also like High Capacity Ion Turbines)

  

Mon Karren

Gunnery Team

SW-7

Medium Range monster shots. 4 damage pre-brace minimum and the Reds are gravy on top of it. All for 116 points.

Mothma MC30s, CR90s, Raiders, Nebs cant evade. Glads and medium ships wont be redirecting.

Irony.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But for non gunnery teams, I would go vet gunners and Overload Pulse with Mon Karren, and take the side arc shot first.

And also have some other ships ready to hit hard as well. Maybe another MC80 Liberty with Spinals / Leading Shots?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Sorry but those builds are just dumb. I cant help but shake my head at how people try to build Mon Karren.

 

If you have XI7 you need either 1 acc or Intel officer to hit the brace. Mon Karen is almost useless in this situation, well it will prevent reidrecting 1 point of dmg only if the defender has and decides to use contain. That costs you 8 points.

 

If you shoot something smalelr like a Crovette XI7 the redurect acc/intel evade, if 1 evade is left unblocked defender can use it anyway and Mon Karen does nothing again.

 

With every other upgrade restricting use of defense tokens MonKaren loses value. In some rare cases it may do soooomething but remember that you pay 8 points for it on top of other upgrades,

I'm not sure you are quite running the scenarios back and forth.

 

1. Intel Officer won't stop the brace. Intel Officer works most efficiently when you can use a smaller hit to drop the toekn but it requires a deft hand since too small of a hit and they won;t use the brace and too big and they'll use it anyway. Putting Intel Officer on the big ships is good, no argument from me, but in my experience it''s been a 50/50 where the Intel Officer has been useful since with my style of play by the time the MC80 shoots it doesn't matter if they brace or not, its a killshot.

 

2. In your contain example run your scenarios to completion with and without MK. If you opponent uses contain you push more damage though to the same hull facing effectively making MK a cheaper spinal armament. If they use the redirect they are only saving them self from 1 additional damage from the hull zone you targeted. Mon Karren is insurance against not rolling an accuracy. It almost operates like a pseudo accuracy.

 

3. Even against a corvette, MK still let's you push one more damage onto the hull zone since they have to either redirect or evade. One more damage point on a corvette is a big deal.

 

As stated before, The MK/XI7 combo lets you push at least 1 more damage against the majority of targets out there. 8 points might seems a little expensive for another point of damage but that is going rate, ala Spinal Armaments are 9 and EA is 10.

 

MK is good just not OP like everyone thought when they first saw it. NOW MK and HTT is pretty worthless...

 

 

Not just that, but in subsequent rounds of combat, missing a XI7 means that your opponent will suffer much less damage.

 

Damage example:

http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2016/08/armada-making-liberty-work.html

 

Example #1 - Shooting at ISDs or MC80s with Mon Karren and XI7s.
Round #1 - Let's say you roll 8 damage.  Regardless of ECM or accuracy, you IO the Brace.  He has no choice but to Brace and take 4 damage directly to shields.  If you did 9 damage and there was a crit, not only would he be unable to Redirect, but he would also take the crit because he can't Contain.
Round #2 - Second round of combat without the Brace available.  Let's say you make the same roll.  He can only choose to Redirect or Contain, but since Redirect will only negate one damage because of XI7s, he wisely chooses to Contain, but eats 8 damage directly to hull.  Since you IO'd the Contain, it is gone for the rest of the game.
 
If you don't buy XI7s with Mon Karren when shooting at a ISD-II with Redirect, GL doing solid second round damage before he MAULS you in return.  You're literally looking at doing near or full damage to hull vs. doing half that because of Redirect.  On a ship that's absolutely meant to do damage, and doesn't have much survivalbility once it does enter equal-brawl range of the bigger ships, you better be making every shot count.
Edited by HERO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...