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Sixter

Is Maarek getting overlooked?

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defenders are "predictable" he says...ha

 

In my local tourny on saturday all 4 games my defender did a move you normally dont see defenders do (even if it was ryad). I did quite a few slow banks and even a couple turns.

 

Thats actually one thing i love about defenders. Everyone "thinks" they know exactly how they will fly because they have options. Then they miss their shot because i didnt move the way they thought.

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The reality of the game is that ultimately dice >>>>>>> all else

Unless you're sporting guaranteed damage (defenders don't)

Which is why you almost always see vess over Steele and x7 over D

That's just how it goes sadly. Steele can be fun but he simply isn't as reliable and ps 9 doesn't change that

NOTE Steele is NOT BAD no x7 defender is bad. Imo ALL x7s are highly competitive. He's just not as good as vess due to having less mods, that's all

Ofc if you don't build for vess you might as well take Steele but vess is so easy to build for

Edited by ficklegreendice

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defenders are "predictable" he says...ha

 

In my local tourny on saturday all 4 games my defender did a move you normally dont see defenders do (even if it was ryad). I did quite a few slow banks and even a couple turns.

 

Thats actually one thing i love about defenders. Everyone "thinks" they know exactly how they will fly because they have options. Then they miss their shot because i didnt move the way they thought.

This. It's best when after a few turns they're so used to constant 3-straights and 4-k-turns that they forget defenders can slow roll at all. And then they get flanked with 1-bank. :D

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Maarek's ability is pretty great. I've run him alongside Vessery with a Palpshuttle to decent success. If you just treat him as a mid-high PS Defender, rather than play him specifically around his ability, he's pretty solid in his own right. I usually just run him with /x7 and Juke to push raw damage. Crits are a bonus, as with any attack. The ability to choose the one you want is just icing.

 

I've pulled some great crits with him, often very timely. I know some people are saying Rex is better, but I've honestly found more room for Maarek given the points difference. Also, Rex usually needs a token support to pick up an extra focus for the trigger, or definite Palp backup. Even building him the cheap way (/x7 and Adaptability), I haven't found him as overall useful as Maarek with Juke.

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A couple things that were said multiple times:

 

  • "Maarek's ability is situational."     Absolutely, it is.  So are all Defender pilot abilities with the exception of Ryad, who can make use of her ability almost every turn.  I think you could make the case that a PTL Ryad can put more damage out than Vessery over the course of a game.  Her downside is her PS.  

 

  • "You need to spend points to make his ability worthwhile."    If you want to make it certain it goes off when available, yes.  However, recognize that 3 attack dice have a 33% chance of scoring a crit, 4 has a 40% chance and that's without a modification.  Predator increases that by 7-8% on each of those.   I've used Maarek quite a bit (either with Predator /D or Juke /x7) and I average about 1 use of his ability per game.  It's significant about 2 out of 3 of those times.  Sometimes the crits pulled just aren't the ones I need or they don't really affect the outcome of the game.
  • "Crits aren't useful in the meta."   There are certainly ships that don't care about crits and they aren't always the key crit you need.  However, I don't know if people have noticed, but large ships are making a comeback (even beyond just Jumpmasters).  Most lists are running at least one and these ships are both the most vulnerable and and likely to take crits.

 

I guess for me, there are some very good reasons to take Marek and there are way too many outright dismissive posts above.  The first is that he's the best value for PS.  You can get him for 35 points with Juke and X7 at PS 7.  Other people have already discussed this, but PS 7 gets you above Glaives and Bots, as well as the soon to oft-be-seen Asaaj, mostly to just shoot first as I agree that positioning for defenders just isn't as much of a concern.  It also puts you at an initiative bid with Dash, the one place where that positioning can be a big deal.   The other thing I like about Maarek is that he can simply be plugged into any Imperial list where Vessery demands some list construction considerations, though that has gotten easier with the Imperials, it's still there.

Edited by AlexW

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dont think ive ever heard of "crits arent useful in the meta"

 

The few times i got stele's ability and DIDNT kill the ship, i killed it by forcing a doubledamage. Or, first crit on a high PS and one of the 3 i had was PS0...just as juicy.

 

Its just rare for that to pop up. I would say Stele is great for the PS value but as others have stated, high PS actually ISNT amazing on defenders. I ended up facing a ryad vs ryad list in one of my games and because i had Lone Wolf on mine and he had VI, mine utterly ruined him because i just blocked her every time while i picked off the other guys. High PS Defenders are almost guaranteed to get their k-turn blocked

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dont think ive ever heard of "crits arent useful in the meta"

 

The few times i got stele's ability and DIDNT kill the ship, i killed it by forcing a doubledamage. Or, first crit on a high PS and one of the 3 i had was PS0...just as juicy.

 

Its just rare for that to pop up. I would say Stele is great for the PS value but as others have stated, high PS actually ISNT amazing on defenders. I ended up facing a ryad vs ryad list in one of my games and because i had Lone Wolf on mine and he had VI, mine utterly ruined him because i just blocked her every time while i picked off the other guys. High PS Defenders are almost guaranteed to get their k-turn blocked

 

See post #33.    As for PS, my point was that a defender doesn't need it to arc dodge and certainly mindless K-turning (just like any obvious play) will get blocked but there are benefits to getting to shooting first, denying an opposing arc dodger information, etc...    In my experience, good defender pilots choose other maneuvers, adjust approaches, or bug out to create better angles.  

Edited by AlexW

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Go up and read what AlexW said again, because that's pretty much what I want to say. I'll put particular emphasis on the fact that Vessery also has a situational ability. Most people seem to read his ability as "you get a free TL", whereas in actuality, there are a lot of things that have to align to make it a free TL. More often it is a transferred action, which is good, but not "Free TL" good.

PTL Ryad is absolutely a more punishing ship than Vessery, but Vessery has that EPT free to give him something other tool to do damage.

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Maarak with predator and x7 is as scary as they come.

He can be boosted up to PS 9 as needed and your u don't have to build around him like Vessery.

That last part hits the nail on the head. I really like marek with x7 and juke, super tanky and you can run him with whatever else strikes your imperial fancy.

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Maarek is overshadowed by Vessery for the most part right now I think. Once more anti-target lock stuff hits I think Maarek will grow in popularity. Sure his ability is situational but there are plenty of ships flying around that cringe to see him on the board.

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Honestly, the "I have to build around him" argument about Vessery isn't that much of an issue unless you plan to fly him alongside interceptors. Pretty much anything else is fine:

1. Omega Leader locks the target but doesn't spend the lock.

2. Vader locks the target but doesn't spend the lock.

3. Phantoms lock targets after they attack and they attack before Vessery.

4. Ryad can lock targets and shoots after Vessery.

5. Inky locks targets for evade and you can boost Vessery to PS8 so he shoots first.

6. Palp shuttle can be given a title to lock anything anywhere.

7. Bombers can be given LRS to lock stuff on the other side of the map.

 

Basically there are so many options to choose from that lack of target locks only becomes a problem for Vessery if he's the last one standing. And if you slap Juke on him the enemy will pay dearly for ignoring him. Stele in comparison isn't bad but he's either more expensive than Vess or he's weaker offensively. Or both. Does it make Maarek weak or not viable? No. But is he the optimal choice? Ehhh....

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Honestly, the "I have to build around him" argument about Vessery isn't that much of an issue unless you plan to fly him alongside interceptors. Pretty much anything else is fine:

1. Omega Leader locks the target but doesn't spend the lock.

2. Vader locks the target but doesn't spend the lock.

3. Phantoms lock targets after they attack and they attack before Vessery.

4. Ryad can lock targets and shoots after Vessery.

5. Inky locks targets for evade and you can boost Vessery to PS8 so he shoots first.

6. Palp shuttle can be given a title to lock anything anywhere.

7. Bombers can be given LRS to lock stuff on the other side of the map.

 

Basically there are so many options to choose from that lack of target locks only becomes a problem for Vessery if he's the last one standing. And if you slap Juke on him the enemy will pay dearly for ignoring him. Stele in comparison isn't bad but he's either more expensive than Vess or he's weaker offensively. Or both. Does it make Maarek weak or not viable? No. But is he the optimal choice? Ehhh....

 

I don't think anyone's argued Maarek's the optimal choice, and yes there is good selection ships that are competitive and pair with Vessery, but your list shows that there does need to be a bit more focus on making his ability work (including limiting upgrades on Vessery with certain pairings).  

 

The point that a couple of us have been trying to make is that Vessery's ability, while very good, isn't on by itself all the time either.  For example, I've found that if I play well against Vessery I can make that target lock problematic for him to use effectively.   In my recent game against him, I forced Vader to choose between sacrificing defense or switching his lock to help Vessery.   Vessery only used his ability once, the first turn.    In another, because of the location of the target lock, I was easily able to predict his path, trap him and then kill him.

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Ehhh yeah you have to build around vessery its not as simple as dont feed him ships without a TL.

 

Its also dont give him ships that fire first and/or have issues getting a TL on the target he wants.

 

You wouldnt slap him with an Inquis and a miniswarm for instance. Inquis would be the only source of TL unless you dumped points on a Targeting Computer, and he fires before Vessery which burns the TL more often than not.

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Oh Maarek is an excellent pilot. The 1pt increase over Glaives and Ryad is definitely worth it. 

 

36 Maarek w/ Predator, X7.

 

I actually prefer this build to the 36pt PtL-Ryad. He's relatively cheap, tough, and has a double modded 3-dice attack, his ability is just gravy.

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Ehhh yeah you have to build around vessery its not as simple as dont feed him ships without a TL.

 

Its also dont give him ships that fire first and/or have issues getting a TL on the target he wants.

 

You wouldnt slap him with an Inquis and a miniswarm for instance. Inquis would be the only source of TL unless you dumped points on a Targeting Computer, and he fires before Vessery which burns the TL more often than not.

 

 

Inquisitor 31 point build

 

Vessery with x7, Juke, Stealth Device

 

Palp Shuttle with FCS

 

It's actually pretty easy to build a squad that easily triggers Vessery's ability. First engagement, maybe the Inquisitor has to spend his own TL, maybe not. Anything after that the shuttle gets in the fight and either manually TL's or gets one with FCS. This squad originally had the title on the shuttle instead of stealth device on vessery, but it's better to potentially have to wait an extra turn to proc Vessery's ability and have him be invincible than to proc his ability turn 1.

 

Vessery tends to trigger his ability more often than not, which means he gets focus evade juke TL every turn. That's better than Ryad's PtL stack, that's better than Maarek's ability. And I've only payed 2 extra points for FCS to chase Vessery's ability since I was already using a Palp Shuttle and the Inquisitor.

Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer

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I still think this is a solid list:

 

Maarek Stele (TIE Defender) (35)
Predator (3)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)
Emperor Palpatine (8)

Colonel Vessery (35)
Juke (2)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Total: 100

 

Got token stacking, Palp, a PS 7 defender with re rolls and target locks for Vessery.

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I still think this is a solid list:

 

Maarek Stele (TIE Defender) (35)

Predator (3)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Emperor Palpatine (8)

Colonel Vessery (35)

Juke (2)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Total: 100

 

Got token stacking, Palp, a PS 7 defender with re rolls and target locks for Vessery.

Soo, you're planning to spend your action on getting a TL but then not use that TL and rely on naked Predator instead so Vessery can get his TL? That's... sub-optimal I think. There are many ships other than Stele which could give TL to Vessery without diminishing their own efficiency. And many ships other than Vessery that could accompany Stele without forcing him to play below his optimum.

Edited by Lightrock

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