Jump to content
rugal

Custom Class : Druid

Recommended Posts

Thank you for doing changelog ūüôā.

I started working on the graphics, what do you think about it:

shapeshift.jpg?pub_secret=2dc16bb8f4

I will be changing some wording along the way - I will try to reduce the amount of text. I will post all the changes at the end.

For now I just did this for this card:
- added "Druid figure" to first sentence
- connected sentences "your turn, to replace"
- changed "Werewolf/Druid shape side of the druids" with "bottom/top part of the splitted" because of a different design

 

For example I noticed:

Primal Wrath
I think there is missing sentence about "You may choose not to refresh this card as normal". I think it would be better to have this card ready, you exhaust it to get the extra action and limit it with the sentence "This card cannot be refreshed."

 

And I was thinking about some small changes:

Evergreen Staff
Change Surge, instead of "Surge: +1 Range" to something that Werewolf would be able to use. For example "Surge: Recover 1 Health" (Avric skill).
You can compare this with other starting items like Staff Of The Grave (both Surge: +1 Range and Surge: +1 Heart and Recover 1 Health), Harvester Scythe, Reaper's Scythe.

Gift of Nature
Change Werewolf part to "after dice are rolled". It already cost 1 Fatigue, can be played only once because of exhaust, it obviously exhausts the druid part of the card, which is the main heal and Pierce 1 effect is not that strong.

Werewolf Shape
Instead of changing attributes with +2 -2, I would fix them - so you would have for example 4 Might, 2 Willpower, 2 Knowledge, 3 Awareness no matter the hero you are playing.
With that change we would save some space, because you just needto say "use attributes on this card instead of your heroes".
And also we would prevent bigger attribute boost, because some of the attributes were already too low to be lowered.

Btw I also quite liked the +1 speed boost.

 

And that's it ūüôā. It is already so ****¬†good!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried to do the cut you did on the card but I'm not good enough.
I would have kept the "druid side" because it is simplier I think

Can you do me a blank card so I can use it myself ? ūüôā


I like it but won't it be difficult to understand that the fatigue cost is for each side of the card and not the side where symbol is ?

 

The idea of Primal wrath is that you are granted an action during only the first turn of each encounter. Could be weak, but in fact, you can give many tokens, do a move, a rest action, discard a condition, use a potion, or anything and can be really helpfull after a bad travel sequence. It is intentionnal, to avoid to gain an action during anytime during the game. And addind 4 rejuvenate tokens is a must have so the extra action during only the first turn is a bonus of this skill but could be only the first part.

Evregreen staff is tough as a starting weapon. The druid is the second healer to shoot, after the apothecary, with great range. And in werewolf, you will change the yellow die to red die, so fighting like the knight.

Gift of Nature is before dice are rolled to avoid the druid to be a better fighter than the berserker.

With thoses, the druid is a better healer than the disciple, and a better fighter than the knight. I'm not sure it needs to be changed. And the + 1 range is really troublesome when the druid is fighting against monsters with Stealthy !

I've choose to use the bonus attribute, because at start, I used fixed ones and it was weird. This way, it is more fun to think of the hero you are going to play and opens strategies. Changing sentence will not change many things.

 

I do liked the + 1 speed too, but it was too strong. The only skills that grand speeds are 3xp cards of Skirmisher, Ravager and Raider classes, so it looks like it was too strong. But Animist can give you 2 extra squares when morphing for free for 1 xp, so it can easily replace it.

 

I'm not really happy with :

- the Evergreen staff too, maybe "Surge : + 1 heart" is better, but I'm afraid it would be too strong, and I wished to find a special ability unique, but I haven't really found it.

- Werewolf shape changing a power die to another, since Lyssa does something like that, but after a very long time of brainstorming, I haven't found something else.

- Warding totem werewolf side adding a brown die isn't really strong, fun nor usefull and I'm a affraid it will be a bit too strong with the monk class

- Wild guardian skill : I wished a skill protecting heroes, and since Cursed condition is weak, if thought this would be better and adding surge would be great, but finally, looks like more strong on the paper than in game.

 

 

 

Here are the rules I wrote and may not be updated.

Rules-page-3.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Watercolour Dragon said:

Just one correction: 'split class cards' - really liking how this has developed- looking forward to trying it out.

 

The split cards are a good idea and quite a neat mechanic for this use.

Thanks for the correction!¬†ūüôā

I also really love that idea.

 

13 hours ago, rugal said:

I tried to do the cut you did on the card but I'm not good enough.
I would have kept the "druid side" because it is simplier I think

Can you do me a blank card so I can use it myself ? ūüôā

No problem at all, thats why we are here for, to help each other¬†ūü§ó.

This is just first raw version which which seems to be nice, don't worry I will share the templates once I finish it.

 

13 hours ago, rugal said:

I like it but won't it be difficult to understand that the fatigue cost is for each side of the card and not the side where symbol is ?

Honestly, I don't know. I am also aware of it and that is why I will try to create more versions.

I already played with it a little. I tried to make divider small:

shapeshift_small_divider_2.jpg?pub_secret=45eeff26f1shapeshift_small_divider.jpg?pub_secret=060cc5a33e

Different text align:

shapeshift.jpg?pub_secret=f6b3a30255shapeshift_left_align.jpg?pub_secret=e03e51604a

Any my favorite, DOUBLE FATIGUE ABOMINATION

shapeshift_double_fatigue.jpg?pub_secret=daf7d43314

Haha.

13 hours ago, rugal said:

The idea of Primal wrath is that you are granted an action during only the first turn of each encounter. Could be weak, but in fact, you can give many tokens, do a move, a rest action, discard a condition, use a potion, or anything and can be really helpfull after a bad travel sequence. It is intentionnal, to avoid to gain an action during anytime during the game. And addind 4 rejuvenate tokens is a must have so the extra action during only the first turn is a bonus of this skill but could be only the first part.

Ah okay, I did understand that it works this way, but I was not sure if it is intentional, because of the wording.

It makes sense and does not really need change, but maybe wording could be better with "At the start of each encounter, perform an action of your choice. This is in addition to your 2 actions on your turn.".

 

13 hours ago, rugal said:

Evregreen staff is tough as a starting weapon. The druid is the second healer to shoot, after the apothecary, with great range. And in werewolf, you will change the yellow die to red die, so fighting like the knight.

And the + 1 range is really troublesome when the druid is fighting against monsters with Stealthy !

- the Evergreen staff too, maybe "Surge : + 1 heart" is better, but I'm afraid it would be too strong, and I wished to find a special ability unique, but I haven't really found it.

Well you will not¬†offten¬†really be fighting Deep Elfs in the first quests¬†ūüėÖ. And then you will buy different weapon. Range for werewolf is really useless.

Knight at least have Surge: Force target to reroll 1 defense and he also have additional starting item Wooden Shield.

Please think about it ūüôā. I do not think that Surge: +1 Heart would be broken, but it could also be just Surge: Recover 1 Heart/Fatigue¬†or literally anything else that Werewolf can use ūüėÖ.

 

13 hours ago, rugal said:

Gift of Nature is before dice are rolled to avoid the druid to be a better fighter than the berserker.

I agree with you, no change is needed.

 

13 hours ago, rugal said:

I've choose to use the bonus attribute, because at start, I used fixed ones and it was weird. This way, it is more fun to think of the hero you are going to play and opens strategies. Changing sentence will not change many things.

I politely disagree. I don't like that you don't immediately see final number of your attributes and some healers have attribute benefits. I will later also create graphics of the werewolf to show you how it could look like.

Btw, benefiting Healers are Ashrian (+4 -3), Augur Grisom (+4 -3), Brother Glyr (+4, -2),  Okaluk and Rakash (+4 -3) and Gaia (+4, -3)

 

13 hours ago, rugal said:

I do liked the + 1 speed too, but it was too strong. The only skills that grand speeds are 3xp cards of Skirmisher, Ravager and Raider classes, so it looks like it was too strong. But Animist can give you 2 extra squares when morphing for free for 1 xp, so it can easily replace it.

Yes, you are right.

 

13 hours ago, rugal said:

I'm not really happy with :

- Werewolf shape changing a power die to another, since Lyssa does something like that, but after a very long time of brainstorming, I haven't found something else.

- Warding totem werewolf side adding a brown die isn't really strong, fun nor usefull and I'm a affraid it will be a bit too strong with the monk class

- Wild guardian skill : I wished a skill protecting heroes, and since Cursed condition is weak, if thought this would be better and adding surge would be great, but finally, looks like more strong on the paper than in game.

Honestly, I think all of those are all fine.

Maybe Werewolf could even have the same ability as Lyssa instead of "upgrade".

Wild guardian druid version could remove Surge from enemy attacks, but it is fine as it is - not every skill should be strong.

 

13 hours ago, rugal said:

Here are the rules I wrote and may not be updated.

...rules...

I think that the class is already very well written and thankfully does not longer need such a paper ūüėĄ.

 

Edited by AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The druid class was part of an expansion I was making a long time ago and since all classes come with rules I think this one should too. And since this class is special, rules can be great so every player play it well.

By the way, I think I will restart that project.

 

Maybe the werewolf could have the same ability of Lyssa but I don't like that abilities are present twice in the game ūüėě

I'm thinking of the basic staff and will let you know.

 

 

In first version of the druid I added fatigue on each side of the cards and different triggers but it was too complex to play so I choose to keep some logic : if fatigue then it applies for the whole card, if an action on one side then an action on other side and same for exhausting so cards are easier to read and to use and play (and it was quite a challenge that gives me headaches !)

Edited by rugal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Okay, big update time!

I corrected all the texts and filled them in to the new graphics. Also I have few proposed changes.

This is just an preview!

druid_preview.jpg?pub_secret=89fcf23738

 

Evergreen Staff

Surge: 1 Range Heart

COMMENT: I just want something that Wolf can use, did you come up with something? For now I just replaced Range with Heart.

 

Werewolf Shape

COMMENT: I don't like Wiz-War werewolf shape artwork, so I found some nice werewolf on "blue" background to match Healer archetype.

Each of your attributes are limited to a minimum of 1 and a maximum of 6.
Your hero attributes are replaced.

COMMENT: With Fixed attributes we remove buff for some selected heroes (mentioned above) and also player (especially overlord) immediately see attribute values. Attributes are also in the same order and box as hero cards, because we are usually saying "roll attribute test on the right bottom eye".

If your weapon has the Ranged icon, replace it with the Melee icon and you may replace 1 green power die with 1 yellow power die or 1 yellow power die with 1 red power die.
Your Ranged weapons are treated as Melee weapons.
Each time you perform an attack, you may upgrade 1 of your power dice: Green > Yellow > Red.

COMMENT: Separated sentences to simplify ability, but it is also a buff, because now you can also "upgrade" Melee weapons.

You cannot perform a revive action.

When defeated, revert to Druid shape.

COMMENT: This sentence is not necessary, rules explicitly says "...replaces his hero token with his hero figure...".

 

Shapeshift (1)

Ds: Exhaust this card during your turn, to replace your Druid figure with the Werewolf. While in Werewolf shape, use the bottom part of the split Werewolf shape side of the druids class cards.

Ws: Exhaust this card during your turn, to replace your Werewolf figure with the Druid. While in Druid shape, use the top part of the split druid shape side of the druid class cards.

COMMENT: Changes to match new design.

 

Gift of Nature (1)

Ds: Exhaust this card during your turn and choose yourself or an adjacent hero. That The chosen hero gains 2 rejuvenate tokens.

Ws: Exhaust this card when you perform an attack, before dice are rolled. That This attack gains: Pierce 1.

 

Rejuvenation

Rejuvenate tokens are limited by 4 at a time unless an ability allows it.

At the end of his turn, A hero with any number of rejuvenate tokens at the end of his turn discard 1 rejuvenate token and recovers 1 2 Heart, then that hero discard 1 rejuvenate token.

COMMENT: Over weekend I was going through the cards with my gaming group and they simply wouldn't allow guranteed 1 Fatigue 4 Heart heal (in 2 turns). They proposed change to 2 Fatigue cost or just 1 Heart heal per token - they realize that tokens are end turn effect and that they cannot stand up hero. This is also caused by our disciple which always roll 1 Heart on the red power die. Instead of increasing supply limit, we would simply buff the ability later with other class skills.
I hope we will come up with something reasonable together, in the current form it is sadly unplayable for me. Also proposed buff is, that it could heal 1 Fatigue when you are full health, what do you think about that?

 

1xp Animist

Exhaust this card after resolving Shapeshift, exhaust this card to move up to 2 spaces.

 

1xp Primeval Force (1)

Ds: Exhaust this card when after you revive a hero. That hero gains 2 rejuvenate tokens.

Ws: Exhaust this card when after you roll defense dice, after dice are rolled. Rerroll 1 of your defense dice.

 

1xp Warding Totem

Ds: When you use Gift of Nature, you may divide the rejuvenate tokens between you and any adjacent heroes.

Ws: Add 1 additional brown defense die to your defense pool.

 

2xp Feral Spirit

Ds: Exhaust this card when you revive a hero, before rolling dice, to add 1 power die of your choice to the dice pool.

Ws: Exhaust this card when you perform an attack, after rolling dice are rolled, to add 1 Surge to that attack the results.

 

2xp Primitive Heart (1)
Ds:
Exhaust this card when you after resolving Shapeshift, into the Druid shape. to perform a revive action.

Ws: Exhaust this card when you after resolving Shapeshift, into the Werewolf shape. to perform an attack.

COMMENT: This is newly also a Split card.

 

2xp Savage Favor (1)

Ds: Exhaust this card when you use Gift of Nature, to You may give 2 additional rejuvenate tokens.

Ws: Exhaust this card when you use Gift of Nature, you may reroll 1 attack or power die.

 

3xp Primal Wrath

Rejuvenate tokens limit increase by 4 (even while this card is exhausted).
When a hero discards an rejuvenate token, he recovers 1 additional Heart.

COMMENT: Like mentioned above, we would rather buff the effect than increasing token limit.

Exhaust this card At the start of each encounter, at the start of your turn, you may take 1 additional When you refresh this card, perform an action. This is in addition to your 2 actions on your turn.

COMMENT: Exhaust is not necessary, card effect is much clearer when written like this.

 

3xp Wild Guardian (1)

Ds: Action: Exhaust this card. While this card is exhausted, each attack that targets a hero within 3 spaces of you cancel 1 Surge from the results hero within 3 spaces of you cannot be affected by monster actions denoted with a Action.

COMMENT: Since you did not like Cursed effect, I propose this change. You can compare this with Cloud of Mist. 

Ws: Action: Exhaust this card. While this card is exhausted, each time a hero within 3 spaces of you perform an attack, add 1 Surge to that attack the results.

 

 

I have to say, I already spent some time with this. It is much more work then I initially expected. Most of the tweaks to the texts are not necessary, but sadly, I am perfectionist. I just have to nitpick in everything.

Edited by AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

Evergreen Staff

Surge: 1 Range Heart

COMMENT: I just want something that Wolf can use, did you come up with something? For now I just replaced Range with Heart.

Nope, I haven't find anything, and + 1 heart is still too strong. Since the yellow die will go a red one, have +1 on top if a bit too much. Maybe "recover 1 heart" is better then, even if it is nothing really new.

2 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

Werewolf Shape

COMMENT: I don't like Wiz-War werewolf shape artwork, so I found some nice werewolf on "blue" background to match Healer archetype.

Each of your attributes are limited to a minimum of 1 and a maximum of 6.
Your hero attributes are replaced.

COMMENT: With Fixed attributes we remove buff for some selected heroes (mentioned above) and also player (especially overlord) immediately see attribute values. Attributes are also in the same order and box as hero cards, because we are usually saying "roll attribute test on the right bottom eye".

If your weapon has the Ranged icon, replace it with the Melee icon and you may replace 1 green power die with 1 yellow power die or 1 yellow power die with 1 red power die.
Your Ranged weapons are treated as Melee weapons.
Each time you perform an attack, you may upgrade 1 of your power dice: Green > Yellow > Red.

COMMENT: Separated sentences to simplify ability, but it is also a buff, because now you can also "upgrade" Melee weapons.

You cannot perform a revive action.

When defeated, revert to Druid shape.

COMMENT: This sentence is not necessary, rules explicitly says "...replaces his hero token with his hero figure...".

I really like the Wiz-war artwork, and I use that mini, so I don't see the point of changing this, but it is a detail and not something important to argue.

I already tested the fixed attributes and it has many troubles : First, it is breaks the idea of creating a hero with that in mind (and in your examples, you forgot all possibilities from hybrizing it), second, it will boost many heroes and not most, and finally, the bad side of the werewolf should be a lose of Willpower and with this case, a hero can gain 1 point of willpower. If your point is only "then the overlord can see it directly", seriously, just appliying + 2 and - 2 is not so hard to do. And thinking of your hero with this in mind is part of the fun. So, sorry, but on this one, I'm don't agree.
I already did something like you did and it didn't work. The attributes being on the side with text near it is  ... strange and not easy to look at, and that's why I spend a long time to create my version, and it takes me lots of work since I never did it before.

I dont think you should ad the "a", since this are is the revive action in general, it is not "one" in particular, but a general one, so I think the "a" is not needed. Maybe a native english one can help us on this one, but I'm almost sure on this one.

I've put on the cards the maximum info to avoid the rules if possible.

2 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

Shapeshift (1)

Ds: Exhaust this card during your turn, to replace your Druid figure with the Werewolf. While in Werewolf shape, use the bottom part of the split Werewolf shape side of the druids class cards.

Ws: Exhaust this card during your turn, to replace your Werewolf figure with the Druid. While in Druid shape, use the top part of the split druid shape side of the druid class cards.

COMMENT: Changes to match new design.

Fine.

2 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

Rejuvenation

Rejuvenate tokens are limited by 4 at a time unless an ability allows it.

At the end of his turn, A hero with any number of rejuvenate tokens at the end of his turn discard 1 rejuvenate token and recovers 1 2 Heart, then that hero discard 1 rejuvenate token.

COMMENT: Over weekend I was going through the cards with my gaming group and they simply wouldn't allow guranteed 1 Fatigue 4 Heart heal (in 2 turns). They proposed change to 2 Fatigue cost or just 1 Heart heal per token - they realize that tokens are end turn effect and that they cannot stand up hero. This is also caused by our disciple which always roll 1 Heart on the red power die. Instead of increasing supply limit, we would simply buff the ability later with other class skills.
I hope we will come up with something reasonable together, in the current form it is sadly unplayable for me. Also proposed buff is, that it could heal 1 Fatigue when you are full health, what do you think about that?

I don't see the point of removing the limitation tokens. The card has easy enough space to allow it. If I could, I would have put that part on Gift of Nature but it was too much text for a so small cards looking at the concept.

In fact, Descent is a tempo matter. And balancing a skill that heals over time is a really hard idea to overcome with. To be honest, I already think of this, but I think that healing only 1 is a bit weak and 2 is a bit strong. Let us go for healing 1 heart then.

2 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

1xp Warding Totem

Ds: When you use Gift of Nature, you may divide the rejuvenate tokens between you and any adjacent heroes.

Ws: Add 1 additional brown defense die to your defense pool.

I'm not happy with this one on the "Ws" part. I'm almost sure it will do stupid things with as a Monk. So, i'm on it to find something else.

2 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

2xp Primitive Heart (1)
Ds:
Exhaust this card when you after resolving Shapeshift, into the Druid shape. to perform a revive action.

Ws: Exhaust this card when you after resolving Shapeshift, into the Werewolf shape. to perform an attack.

COMMENT: This is newly also a Split card.

I wished to avoid it so there will be for 1xp card, 2xp card and 3xp card a card without the "split" effect. But maybe it is easier to read ? I'm not sure ...

2 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

3xp Primal Wrath

Rejuvenate tokens limit increase by 4 (even while this card is exhausted).
When a hero discards an rejuvenate token, he recovers 1 additional Heart.

COMMENT: Like mentioned above, we would rather buff the effect then increasing token limit.

Exhaust this card At the start of each encounter, at the start of your turn, you may take 1 additional When you refresh this card, perform an action. This is in addition to your 2 actions on your turn.

COMMENT: Exhaust is not necessary, card effect is much clearer when written like this.

I don't think that your text is clearer. But I always think that the game is not clear with himself : sometimes, it talks about "in addition to your 2 actions a turn", and sometimes not. I liked the way it was, but basically, it is just wording and as long as you are fine you it, I don't mind.

So, you've changed the limitation of the healing part to a boost of healing abilites ? And how much is it limited now ? To 8 from the start ? or to 4 for the whole duration of the campaign ?

I wished to add extra time to the heal, no a boost of healing, so, it is nothing like I created. Too much like of a bard to me now. I can rethink of it all, but I'm not agree with this one.

2 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

3xp Wild Guardian (1)

Ds: Action: Exhaust this card. While this card is exhausted, each attack that targets a hero within 3 spaces of you cancel 1 Surge from the results hero within 3 spaces of you cannot be affected by monster actions denoted with a Action.

COMMENT: Since you did not like Cursed effect, I propose this change. You can compare this with Cloud of Mist. 

Ws: Action: Exhaust this card. While this card is exhausted, each time a hero within 3 spaces of you perform an attack, add 1 Surge to that attack the results.

What the point of creating a skill, at 1 more xp that already exist ?
I wished this skill to be a usefull cursed effect, because the idea is great but the condition is unusefull this it needs almost always an attack to be put on and heroes can discard it without effect with a simple test of Knowledge (and the few monsters to put it and those useless horrible Goblin witchers ...).
And you have just killed the idea. Maybe I didn't explain myself well. I like the idea of curse but not as a condition. So, it ended up to that skill. I haven't used the cursed card because I wished this class to be playable if the base game only. So why changing this to cloud of mist ? I don't see your point ...
I wish the druid to be more of a support healer and since he cannot remove condition, I tought that he could prevent monsters from doing their strongest effects instead (it could cover heroes from many things from Sweep to Death omen). This is nothing to be compared with. The Spiritspeaker already covers surge. Imagine a team that do this twice ? Please go back to way it was. I've tested it many times and it was really fun, a good side options to most healers.

2 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

I have to say, I already spend quite some time with this. It is much more work then I initially expected. Sadly, I am perfectionist so I have to nitpick in everything.

I'm really happy and I really thank you for the time you spend ūüôā Even if you are not according ūüėČ I used to be a perfectionnist, but let's say I grew old.

Edited by rugal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, rugal said:

Nope, I haven't find anything, and + 1 heart is still too strong. Since the yellow die will go a red one, have +1 on top if a bit too much. Maybe "recover 1 heart" is better then, even if it is nothing really new.

[Evergreen Staff]¬†Yes, I realize that. I will change it to Recover, let me know if you come up with something¬†different ūüôā.

 

1 hour ago, rugal said:

I really like the Wiz-war artwork, and I use that mini, so I don't see the point of changing this, but it is a detail and not something important to argue.

[Werewolf art] Exactly.

 

1 hour ago, rugal said:

I already tested the fixed attributes and it has many troubles : First, it is breaks the idea of creating a hero with that in mind (and in your examples, you forgot all possibilities from hybrizing it), second, it will boost many heroes and not most, and finally, the bad side of the werewolf should be a lose of Willpower and with this case, a hero can gain 1 point of willpower. If your point is only "then the overlord can see it directly", seriously, just appliying + 2 and - 2 is not so hard to do. And thinking of your hero with this in mind is part of the fun. So, sorry, but on this one, I'm don't agree.
I already did something like you did and it didn't work. The attributes being on the side with text near it is  ... strange and not easy to look at, and that's why I spend a long time to create my version, and it takes me lots of work since I never did it before.

[Werewolf fixed attributes] It was just initial raw concept of fixed attributes, both Knowledge and Willpower can be set to 1. At the table I have this set-up in mind:

druid_placement.jpg?pub_secret=55b2d8359

I don't think that it is something "strange and not easy to look at"¬†ūüėÖ.¬†You are quite a critique ūüėĄ

But I will listen ūüôā!¬†It is easy to change it to +2, -2 numbers. I would just propose changing them to "+2 Might, -2 Willpower, +1 Awareness,¬†-1 Knowledge" instead of 2x +2, 2x -2, are you fine with that?

 

1 hour ago, rugal said:

I dont think you should ad the "a", since this are is the revive action in general, it is not "one" in particular, but a general one, so I think the "a" is not needed. Maybe a native english one can help us on this one, but I'm almost sure on this one.

[Wording] It would be great, if anyone could look at the cards in the preview and correct spelling mistakes¬†ūüôā.

 

1 hour ago, rugal said:

I don't see the point of removing the limitation tokens. The card has easy enough space to allow it. If I could, I would have put that part on Gift of Nature but it was too much text for a so small cards looking at the concept.

[Rejuvenation] Limitation is not removed! It is still 4. According to rules:

Class Tokens:

  • Class tokens are tokens that are used in conjunction with certain Class skills.
  • All class tokens are limited by supply

 

1 hour ago, rugal said:

In fact, Descent is a tempo matter. And balancing a skill that heals over time is a really hard idea to overcome with. To be honest, I already think of this, but I think that healing only 1 is a bit weak and 2 is a bit strong. Let us go for healing 1 heart then.

[Rejuvenation heal] I agree.

What would you think about adding buff: "If he has no damage tokens on his Hero sheet, he recovers 1 Fatigue instead."?

 

1 hour ago, rugal said:

I'm not happy with this one on the "Ws" part. I'm almost sure it will do stupid things with as a Monk. So, i'm on it to find something else.

[Warding Totem Ws Brown] Well, let me know if you come up with something different.

It could also be buff of Gift of Nature as Druid part. E.g. add additional +1 Heart or Pierce. Name is maybe a bit off.

 

1 hour ago, rugal said:

I wished to avoid it so there will be for 1xp card, 2xp card and 3xp card a card without the "split" effect. But maybe it is easier to read ? I'm not sure ...

[Primitive Heart split] At least for me it was weird that it was not a split card. I think that it is fine - this class is unique with split cards, so whatever.

 

1 hour ago, rugal said:

So, you've changed the limitation of the healing part to a boost of healing abilites ? And how much is it limited now ? To 8 from the start ? or to 4 for the whole duration of the campaign ?

I wished to add extra time to the heal, no a boost of healing, so, it is nothing like I created. Too much like of a bard to me now. I can rethink of it all, but I'm not agree with this one.

[Primal Wrath] Well 4, supply limit. Since 1 Heart will be weak healing in act 2, this buff in 3xp skill feel appropriate. Bard is still much very different.

 

1 hour ago, rugal said:

What the point of creating a skill, at 1 more xp that already exist ?
I wished this skill to be a usefull cursed effect, because the idea is great but the condition is unusefull this it needs almost always an attack to be put on and heroes can discard it without effect with a simple test of Knowledge (and the few monsters to put it and those useless horrible Goblin witchers ...).
And you have just killed the idea. Maybe I didn't explain myself well. I like the idea of curse but not as a condition. So, it ended up to that skill. I haven't used the cursed card because I wished this class to be playable if the base game only. So why changing this to cloud of mist ? I don't see your point ...
I wish the druid to be more of a support healer and since he cannot remove condition, I tought that he could prevent monsters from doing their strongest effects instead (it could cover heroes from many things from Sweep to Death omen). This is nothing to be compared with. The Spiritspeaker already covers surge. Imagine a team that do this twice ? Please go back to way it was. I've tested it many times and it was really fun, a good side options to most healers.

[Wild Guardian Ds] It was just an idea, I will change it back ūüôā. And it was not exactly same as Cloud of Mist, since attacker wouldn't miss if he didn't roll Surge and it¬†wouldn't affect friendly heroes attacks. Those details matters!

 

 

1 hour ago, rugal said:

I'm really happy and I really thank you for the time you spend ūüôā Even if you are not according ūüėČ I used to be a perfectionnist, but let's say I grew old.

I am happy to help. Just keep in mind that I am trying to improve your class so everyone would find it more lucrative, I don't want to ruin your ideas, concept or anything. Sometimes you are rough.

Edited by AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

I don't think that it is something "strange and not easy to look at"¬†ūüėÖ.¬†You are quite a critique ūüėĄ

But I will listen ūüôā!¬†It is easy to change it to +2, -2 numbers. I would just propose changing them to "+2 Might, -2 Willpower, +1 Awareness,¬†-1 Knowledge" instead of 2x +2, 2x -2, are you fine with that?

I don't see the point of 2/2/1/1 instead of 2/2/1/1 ?

10 minutes ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

[Rejuvenation] Limitation is not removed! It is still 4. According to rules:

Class Tokens:

  • Class tokens are tokens that are used in conjunction with certain Class skills.
  • All class tokens are limited by supply

 

[Rejuvenation heal] I agree.

What would you think about adding buff: "If you don't have any damage tokens on your Hero sheet, recover 1 Fatigue instead."?

So, the druid's limit would be 4 for the whole duration of the campaign ? Wouldn't it be a bit too few ?

Could be fun to recover fatigue if the hero is full. Why not. I'm not sure about balance tough but I like the idea. Let us go for it, then.

13 minutes ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

I am happy to help. Just keep in mind that I am trying to improve your class so everyone would find it more lucrative, I don't want to ruin your ideas, concept or anything. Sometimes you are rough.

I'm really sorry. I'm not fluent in english as I used to be and I do not find words sometimes. But I must also admit that I'm sometimes a bit too much of rough, maybe, and many of my friends tell me it often. Please accept my apoligies, I will try to do my best to avoid this anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I was doing some calculs to balance it and to be simple, I would say an encounter would go for around 9 turns.

  • the disciple can heal up from 9 heart of 27 for an average of 16.
  • the apothecary can heal up from 9 heart to 27 with an average of 16
  • the bard can heal up to 36 (but will never do that much)
  • the prophet can heal up to 18
  • the soul reaper can heal up to 36
  • the spiritspeaker heal 0 (but can avoid damages up from 0 to 54, but most likely 9)
  • the druid can heal up to 16 (if healing by 1), or 32 if healing by 2.

So, it seems good as heal only 1 even if it a bit weak to me. But those calculs are only theorical (and at 0 xp), you will not heal each turn, and some healing abilities will be lost. So I tought 2 heart was cool because of this special case.

Then, 2 differences are on the disciple and the druid : the first one can "raise" his friends with this ability not the other, so the druid can never "save" (spare?) an action (that's why I added him the primitive heart so he will raise better and to have something different from the apothecary). [and disciple, bard and soul reaper can use healing abilites raise with no action where neither the prophet, apothecary, spiritspeaker nor druid can)

Not to forget that most of the time, healing abilities will be lost, the bard will oftenly not heal that much, the healing rain of the spritispeaker (it's a 1xp card but the spritspeaker is strange since it is the only healer to not heal at start) will oftenly too not heal that much, and so the druid will rarely heal his full 4 [hearts] since the Overlord will change target (with the app it may be different but we're talking about classic play right ?), so 1 [fatigue] for 2 [hearts] with optionaly the ability to heal 2 more is fair to me in fact. And you can even antcipate damages and even spend your fatigue for nothing.

Since he was meant to have middle healing abilities, I choose to not give him ability to remove conditions. But I then choose to add him an ability to "cover" heroes from "special actions". To be frank, Wild guardian is situationnal : can be either really strong, either unusefull, but as I was aware of this, I give the werewolf side a far more usefull one.

I'm not sure that about giving a boost of healing on the 3xp instead of more tokens. I must test it, but it's away of the idea I tried to do : a healer that would give his tokens, morph and fight and revert back only to revive and/or redistribute his tokens

 

(edit : I corrected the healing of the prophet, since the token can be discarded, it can be up to 9 x 2)

Edited by rugal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, rugal said:

I don't see the point of 2/2/1/1 instead of 2/2/2/2 ?

Because suddenly with -1 Knowledge (instead of -2) Ashrian, Augur Grisom, Okaluk and Rakash and Gaia wouldn't get extra attribute buff and it would highlight primary buff of "might".

 

11 hours ago, rugal said:

So, the druid's limit would be 4 for the whole duration of the campaign ? Wouldn't it be a bit too few ?

Yes, I think this is fine.

If you divide tokens between 2 heroes, 2 tokens are received and discarded in the same round - so you will not really have a problem with the supply limit.

 

11 hours ago, rugal said:

Could be fun to recover fatigue if the hero is full. Why not. I'm not sure about balance tough but I like the idea. Let us go for it, then.

Will do ūüôā. At least it is more flexible and it is easily comparable with Prophet's Soothing Insight.

 

11 hours ago, rugal said:

I'm really sorry. I'm not fluent in english as I used to be and I do not find words sometimes. But I must also admit that I'm sometimes a bit too much of rough, maybe, and many of my friends tell me it often. Please accept my apoligies, I will try to do my best to avoid this anymore.

No problem ūüôā.

 

10 hours ago, rugal said:

I was doing some calculs to balance it and to be simple, I would say an encounter would go for around 9 turns.

  • the disciple can heal up from 9 heart of 27 for an average of 16.
  • the apothecary can heal up from 9 heart to 27 with an average of 16
  • the bard can heal up to 36 (but will never do that much)
  • the prophet can heal up to 9
  • the soul reaper can heal up to 36
  • the spiritspeaker heal 0 (but can avoid damages up from 0 to 54, but most likely 9)
  • the druid can heal up to 16 (if healing by 1), or 32 if healing by 2.

So, it seems good as heal only 1 even if it a bit weak to me. But those calculs are only theorical (and at 0 xp), you will not heal each turn, and some healing abilities will be lost. So I tought 2 heart was cool because of this special case.

Then, 2 differences are on the disciple and the druid : the first one can "raise" his friends with this ability not the other, so the druid can never "save" (spare?) an action (that's why I added him the primitive heart so he will raise better and to have something different from the apothecary). [and disciple, bard and soul reaper can use healing abilites raise with no action where neither the prophet, apothecary, spiritspeaker nor druid can)

Not to forget that most of the time, healing abilities will be lost, the bard will oftenly not heal that much, the healing rain of the spritispeaker (it's a 1xp card but the spritspeaker is strange since it is the only healer to not heal at start) will oftenly too not heal that much, and so the druid will rarely heal his full 4 [hearts] since the Overlord will change target (with the app it may be different but we're talking about classic play right ?), so 1 [fatigue] for 2 [hearts] with optionaly the ability to heal 2 more is fair to me in fact. And you can even antcipate damages and even spend your fatigue for nothing.

Since he was meant to have middle healing abilities, I choose to not give him ability to remove conditions. But I then choose to add him an ability to "cover" heroes from "special actions". To be frank, Wild guardian is situationnal : can be either really strong, either unusefull, but as I was aware of this, I give the werewolf side a far more usefull one.

I think you nailed the design! I am really big fan of Feral Spirit that adds extra dice to revive pool - so cool.

With this class it is inevitable that Heroes will suffer from web trap ūüėĄ.

 

10 hours ago, rugal said:

I'm not sure that about giving a boost of healing on the 3xp instead of more tokens. I must test it, but it's away of the idea I tried to do : a healer that would give his tokens, morph and fight and revert back only to revive and/or redistribute his tokens

Well, I still think it will be the same. You will not have problem with the supply limit, because you can simply pick Warding Totem (with Primeval Force) and distribute all the tokens between heroes. It will be very helpful in act 2 and the powerlevel is same as the bard with Song of Mending and Understudy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Very exciting work and with such great quality. You guys are great!

Where did you get those very high resulution templates for the class cards? I've used these but yours seem to have a tad better quality.  

 

19 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

Each time you perform an attack, you may upgrade 1 of your power dice: Green > Yellow > Red.

Very minor thing:

If you look at this through a mathematical perspective you'd might missunderstand and read it like this:

Green is greater than yellew, which is greater than red. People who have played Descent knows that this is not the case but maybe if you show this to a new player, he/she would might be confused.

Maybe changing the ">" icons on the card to small, neat little arrows instead is a good idea? ->

19 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

1xp Primeval Force (1)

Question:

With this wording, are we allowed to reroll a defense die during an attribute test or is it just during an attack? I think it is just during an attack, but does this need to be specified further?

 

19 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

3xp Primal Wrath

Correction:

- When a hero discards a an rejuvenate token.

- At the start of each encounter, at the start of you turn, you may perform take 1 additional action   (maybe)

 

Keep it up guys!¬†ūüĎć

Edited by Dadler93

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Dadler93 said:

Very exciting work and with such great quality. You guys are great!

‚̧ԳŹ

8 minutes ago, Dadler93 said:

Where did you get those very high resulution templates for the class cards? I've used these but yours seem to have a tad better quality.  

I created my own based on these: https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/93649/descent-2e-class-cards-templates.

I also created high quality templates for overlord cards, familiars, items and heroes.

Here you can grab my class templates ūüôā:
https://slack-files.com/T050ATR2M-F013NE9C90Q-068fb51b4c

 

12 minutes ago, Dadler93 said:

Very minor thing:

If you look at this through a mathematical perspective you'd might missunderstand and read it like this:

Green is greater than yellew, which is greater than red. People who have played Descent knows that this is not the case but maybe if you show this to a new player, he/she would might be confused.

Maybe changing the ">" icons on the card to small, neat little arrows instead is a good idea? ->

Very good catch! I will change that¬†accordingly ūüôā.

 

15 minutes ago, Dadler93 said:

Question:

With this wording, are we allowed to reroll a defense die during an attribute test or is it just during an attack? I think it is just during an attack, but does this need to be specified further?

ūüėĄ¬†I didn't think about it like that.

Game doesn't consider them "defense dice" during attribute test, otherwise these items would also work:
Blessed Shield, Deflecting Shield, Iron Shield, Shield of Light, Elven Cloak, Heavy Steel Shield, Inscribed Robes.

 

25 minutes ago, Dadler93 said:

Correction:

When a hero discards a an rejuvenate token.

Thanks!!¬†ūü§ó

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

I created my own based on these: https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/93649/descent-2e-class-cards-templates.

I also created high quality templates for overlord cards, familiars, items and heroes.

Here you can grab my class templates ūüôā:
https://slack-files.com/T050ATR2M-F013NE9C90Q-068fb51b4c

I use Photofiltre so I can't use theses ūüėě

If you could create a blank of each class as images, I could use those better ones than the old one I'm using

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dadler93 said:

Very exciting work and with such great quality. You guys are great!

Where did you get those very high resulution templates for the class cards? I've used these but yours seem to have a tad better quality.  

Keep it up guys!¬†ūüĎć

Thanks ! really hard work !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

Because suddenly with -1 Knowledge (instead of -2) Ashrian, Augur Grisom, Okaluk and Rakash and Gaia wouldn't get extra attribute buff and it would highlight primary buff of "might".

But it would be the same situation as an hybrid. I don't think this is needed.

7 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

If you divide tokens between 2 heroes, 2 tokens are received and discarded in the same round - so you will not really have a problem with the supply limit.

Could be fun to recover fatigue if the hero is full. Why not. I'm not sure about balance tough but I like the idea. Let us go for it, then.

I've thought of it and that's not how I wish it to be. Recovering fatigue is fun idea, indeed, but the druid was meant to offer long time healing without to go it back. So, you could put up to 8 token on an hero and do your stuff during that time. And mathematically, it is as if the disciple would heal each turn, without all the benefits and as constant heal while the disciple could heal a bit more or less, depending on luck.

So, I will think of it more, but I'm not sure we're going the right path.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Updated preview:

druid_preview.jpg?pub_secret=3f2e2dad45

 

 

@rugal¬†please stop rethinking it over and over again and try to be open minded¬†ūüėĄ¬†when we finally make some progress, you want to scratch it and go back to the drawing board. Remember¬†that before I started working on this, you wrote¬†"The last druid version and likely the final one.".¬†With¬†such an approach we will never have final druid version¬†ūüėĄ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

@rugal¬†please stop rethinking it over and over again and try to be open minded¬†ūüėĄ¬†when we finally make some progress, you want to scratch it and go back to the drawing board. Remember¬†that before I started working on this, you wrote¬†"The last druid version and likely the final one.".¬†With¬†such an approach we will never have final druid version¬†ūüėĄ

As a perfectionnist, this is surprising ! ūüėČ

I'm not happy with this version, sorry. So as long as I will not be, I will not end it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish we could have just one version, current version of Gift of Nature (+previous rejuvenation) with 2 Heart heal is UNPLAYABLE FOR ME, like i mentioned above.

I don't¬†want to go in circles with you, I would just start to repeat myself. So let's just have two version then ūüėŹ. I see that you don't even¬†want to adapt fixed verbage¬†anyway ūüôĀ.

 

I noticed that your Evergreen Staff is missing expansion symbol. Also I don't like this new surge effect. "Surge: 2 Fatigue" to recover up-to 3 Fatigue in 1 attack is broken.

I liked previous re-rolls on Savage Favor instead of Warding Totem. On Warding Totem I would replace additional brown with "add +1 Heart when you use Gift of Nature" and keep Savage Favor as it was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

I noticed that your Evergreen Staff is missing expansion symbol

Thanks ! I changed it !

 

Sorry, but you're not helping, you're breaking my ideas into something else, you can hear I'm unpleasant with this ?

Sometimes opinions take differents path.

Edited by rugal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, AwesomeTree_in_the_Dark said:

I also created high quality templates for overlord cards, familiars, items and heroes.

Thank you so much! Time to remake all the cards I've already printed lol!¬†ūü§©

I'd gladly take a look at those overlord and item templates too if I'm not asking too much  :D The ones I have at the moment have equal or lower resolution than the one I linked to before.

 

I also tried to change the divider a little bit to avoid confusion about the fatigue cost. I know that you've discussed this before so I know I'm a bit late to the party.

What do you guys think about this rough version?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...