Jump to content
rugal

Custom Class : Druid

Recommended Posts

Fun is part of balance too. If an element of the game is broken, it is fun for only one side, at most, if not nobody.

 

And balancing Descent is near impossible.

 

Maybe you don't think that adding a yellow die and a black die is kind of strong, but for sure, try to play it or against it, and rolling blue + red + yelllow in attack, and grey + black in defense is kind of strong, further since it doesn't needs you to spend any money. And black + grey die in defense is Really tanky ! In fact, it is like the werewolf had the Runeplate armor !!

 

Don't forgive that the werewolf form doesn't needs you to spend any gold for him. So, indeed, it is strong, but maybe not as you wish you to be. And adding more advantage to it would be really broken. And using you idea to give a leap attack with a dice bonus would mean that the werewolf would do normal attack with only Blue + Red ? in act 2, it's neally useless, even the Raven flock has Blue + Red + Yellow dice on each regular attacks.

 

I'm going to think back of it, but really, you need to try it to see for yourself, because it not, this discussion is hard since your lacking playtest and gameplay.

 

Finally, for the action or fatigue, let me show you an example.

You're in druid and need to change to werewolf. You spend an action, you can. If it's fatigue cost, if you don't have it, you can't, you need a rest action before, and may be killed. In short, you always have an action to spend to change form but you may not have the fatigue for it. The Ovelord may stun you but you still have at least 1 action left, but the Overlord can make you lose all your stamina without any limitation. So, action is the best way. I could have create another way to change shape by XP cost, but I it was waste of skill

Edited by rugal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know balance is important, but I'm not arguing over your balance skillz here.  I'm talking about basic game design, which I don't need to balance-playtest to have an opinion on.  I wouldn't use your custom Druid class as it is now, because it doesn't WOW me on the fun factor.  I don't look at your werewolf and feel "Wow, that skill looks brutal!  I'm gonna jump around the room and make howling noises when I play that!"  Yes, I understand you gotta give the WW more ATK/DEF dice in Act 2.  But what matters is how you achieve that effect.

 

And adding more advantage to it would be really broken. And using you idea to give a leap attack with a dice bonus would mean that the werewolf would do normal attack with only Blue + Red ? in act 2, it's neally useless, even the Raven flock has Blue + Red + Yellow dice on each regular attacks.

 

 

See the contradiction?  First you say giving the WW a special attack would make it overpowered, then you say oh but the WW's normal attack is weak and useless.  Yes!  Because I meant to balance it that way!  You think I'm just trying to give the WW carte blanche advantages so he breaks the entire game, and you think I would think that's good gameplay?  No.

 

I already told you why I intended it that way: Instead of giving the WW a straight power-up where you don't have to strategize on how to use it, you give him a special ability that's pretty good in order to cover for his "weakness" half the time.  That way, the player has to play the WW intelligently to make him shine, not just walk up to monsters and start rolling dice.  And I did hear you when you said "the Druid is Healer class; his forms are not supposed to replace the Warrior class."  So the WW would have combat disadvantages to balance his combat advantages, to make him stand out with smart use, but not to make him all-around better than Warrior, or function the same way as the Warrior.

 

The above is the part which I agree with Tomkat.

 

You're in druid and need to change to werewolf. You spend an action, you can. If it's fatigue cost, if you don't have it, you can't, you need a rest action before, and may be killed. In short, you always have an action to spend to change form but you may not have the fatigue for it. The Ovelord may stun you but you still have at least 1 action left, but the Overlord can make you lose all your stamina without any limitation. 

 

That's great!  That makes for a character which must be strategized to be used well, but when used well can shine!  I like that the Werewolf doesn't need to waste actions to transform, but instead has a weakness which the OL can exploit to prevent him from transforming whenever he pleases.

 

Uses Action: You can always spend an action to transform.  No brainpower or planning needed.  But overall economy of actions is sacrificed for that ease of use.  Doesn't matter how smart you are, if you're a druid you will have to waste some actions.  Rewards dumb players and penalizes smart players.

Uses Fatigue: You can save your actions for winning the game, but you can get yourself killed if you don't manage your Stamina.  And you have to outsmart the OL because he has ways to "attack" your Stamina.  Strategizing needed.  Penalizes dumb players and rewards smart players.

Edited by Mlai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

English is not my native language and It's difficult to me to explain well what I intended to do.

 

It's a shame you don't want to test it out but it's your choice.

Edited by rugal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Rugal.

 

So I have spent the last couple of weeks trying to develop a druid class, and I was about to post my preliminary ideas for the skills on this website when I thought I would check to see if anyone else has already done this, and here it is! This class is amazing, I think it's much more balanced than mine. I think it's freaky how similar our ideas were btw. I had the same concept of shapeshifting (I called my shapes druid form and feral form), as well as the same concept of having heal over time which also provided buffs (although mine works a little differently; maybe I will still post it). Anyway, I just wanted to say, really strong work!

 

I just have one question about balance: I think mother nature seems potentially a little too OP. It would currently be the only skill in the game that allows more than one condition to be removed by a healer class in a single round, and the cost of removing seems to be a little too low to me. I was thinking if maybe this card should be exhausted when someone chooses to discard a rejuv token to remove a condition (so that it is limited to one use per round). How has it worked out so far in your run-throughs?

 

Anyway, I can't wait to print these cards and use this class. Oh, and to all those who keep nit-picking the theme and questioning the overall idea of the class (I'm looking at you, Mlai), make your own **** druid class if you have so many problems with Rugal's!! give the man some credit, he did a great job imo.

 

Oh I had one more idea btw that I put in mine and I think would be fun to try in your class. When my druid is in feral form (werewolf form for you), he gets +1 to strength and awareness and -1 to intelligence and willpower. I think this would add utility to the class as a support, and add a little more utility to the werewolf form. Let me know what you think.

Edited by Melgrin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Melgrin,

 

Big thanks to your post and congrats :) I'm happy to see you're pleased with it. Please let me know how about the balance when you would have play with.

 

Please post yours too, maybe some of our ideas may be merged into a full super balanced class ;)

 

for the awarness strengh and will power idea, I take it ! Not sure it will change many things but should worth the try, for sure.

 

Maybe mother nature is a bit strong, I will have to test it more maybe.

 

And thanks again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know balance is important, but I'm not arguing over your balance skillz here.  I'm talking about basic game design, which I don't need to balance-playtest to have an opinion on.  I wouldn't use your custom Druid class as it is now, because it doesn't WOW me on the fun factor.  I don't look at your werewolf and feel "Wow, that skill looks brutal!  I'm gonna jump around the room and make howling noises when I play that!"  Yes, I understand you gotta give the WW more ATK/DEF dice in Act 2.  But what matters is how you achieve that effect.

 

And adding more advantage to it would be really broken. And using you idea to give a leap attack with a dice bonus would mean that the werewolf would do normal attack with only Blue + Red ? in act 2, it's neally useless, even the Raven flock has Blue + Red + Yellow dice on each regular attacks.

 

 

See the contradiction?  First you say giving the WW a special attack would make it overpowered, then you say oh but the WW's normal attack is weak and useless.  Yes!  Because I meant to balance it that way!  You think I'm just trying to give the WW carte blanche advantages so he breaks the entire game, and you think I would think that's good gameplay?  No.

 

I already told you why I intended it that way: Instead of giving the WW a straight power-up where you don't have to strategize on how to use it, you give him a special ability that's pretty good in order to cover for his "weakness" half the time.  That way, the player has to play the WW intelligently to make him shine, not just walk up to monsters and start rolling dice.  And I did hear you when you said "the Druid is Healer class; his forms are not supposed to replace the Warrior class."  So the WW would have combat disadvantages to balance his combat advantages, to make him stand out with smart use, but not to make him all-around better than Warrior, or function the same way as the Warrior.

 

The above is the part which I agree with Tomkat.

 

You're in druid and need to change to werewolf. You spend an action, you can. If it's fatigue cost, if you don't have it, you can't, you need a rest action before, and may be killed. In short, you always have an action to spend to change form but you may not have the fatigue for it. The Ovelord may stun you but you still have at least 1 action left, but the Overlord can make you lose all your stamina without any limitation. 

 

That's great!  That makes for a character which must be strategized to be used well, but when used well can shine!  I like that the Werewolf doesn't need to waste actions to transform, but instead has a weakness which the OL can exploit to prevent him from transforming whenever he pleases.

 

Uses Action: You can always spend an action to transform.  No brainpower or planning needed.  But overall economy of actions is sacrificed for that ease of use.  Doesn't matter how smart you are, if you're a druid you will have to waste some actions.  Rewards dumb players and penalizes smart players.

Uses Fatigue: You can save your actions for winning the game, but you can get yourself killed if you don't manage your Stamina.  And you have to outsmart the OL because he has ways to "attack" your Stamina.  Strategizing needed.  Penalizes dumb players and rewards smart players.

You've inspired me put to making a decent druid class on my list of things to do. I'm finishing up my Y/G Spellcloak (or shadowcaster. undecided name.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will try to do some druid playtests in Road To Legend and when I've sorted the flat work-needing-doing with my gaming mates, be patient though as I won't have the time just yet- but it is on the 'will do' list!

 

I like some of your ideas so if you can get the balance working it will be awesome, the druid could also be a good choice for combating the 'three evils' of my campaign project.

 

And let's try and keep the feedback discussions on here friendly- game element design is a very challenging area, balance being its biggest challenge, so stay friendly and constructive and these ideas can be perfected into the best end solution. They designed the best bridges by allowing themselves to design bridges that failed- allow people the grace to get it wrong as the best ideas creatively have to originate from somewhere and it can take time to perfect them into their final form.

 

The druid/werewolf combo may be best as a particular type of druid so as to allow for a non-formchanging 'standard' druid so perhaps the name of this class is 'Some-specific-type-of-druid-name Druid'? where the specific name suits the connection to nature/earth- has anyone any thoughts?

Edited by Watercolour Dragon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, rugal said:

I've based the druid on the druid from Diablo 2 and WoW.

A "classic" druid with nature power would be more a shaman, no ?

The concept of the druid as a druid who can also shapeshift fits if you look at those inspiration points:

 

http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Druid

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Druid

Perhaps the background info for the class can highlight the links to nature and aspects that exist around and alongside the shapeshifting ability - you don't have enough room to do this with the cards (although you might find opportunities to tweak them to hint at it, which they already do to quite an extent, suggesting the druids powers are intertwined with their bonds with nature- this gives the class quite a pleasing nature-centric feel- I can imagine it thematically fitting the elves quite well as they're a nature-focused race.

 

I think there's still the potential for it to be a specialist type of druid- something like 'Naturebound Druid' but with a better term to replace 'naturebound' as it's finding the word that fits and has a nice sound to it, something that emphasizes the specific nature (he he) of these druids compared to any other types of druid.

 

Could it be that 'druid' is an option within the archetype 'Healer' with two or more classes, one being this tied-to-nature shapeshifting druid (perhaps- only an idea- not just tied to the wolf, might be neat if an elf could go leonx for example!, although adding such flexibility might be too tricky and may not work) and the other more of a single form conventional druid a bit like Ceasarsalad101 and others have suggested.

 

It is true that druid can be different things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druid#Druids_in_mythology

 

Spiritspeaker has similarities in terms of links to nature and comes under 'Healer' so it probably is the best fit archetype for druid too.

 

http://descent2e.wikia.com/wiki/Spiritspeaker

http://descent2e.wikia.com/wiki/Healer

 

 

Edited by Watercolour Dragon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×