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rugal

Custom Class : Druid

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Looked through your cards and felt that the names could be better, or reflect a theme better on a whole.

 

Druid: Change name to... Skin-Walker?
Branch Staff: Change name to... Evergreen Staff?
Werewolf Shape: Change name to... Lycanthrope?
Animist: Change to... Animist Vigor?
Anointed: Change to... Totem's Favor?
Primitive: Change to... Dancing Earth?
Feral: Change to... Feral Blood?
Mother Earth: change to... Great Mother?
Nature's Power: Change to... Wild Guardian?

Gaea's Will: Change to... Gaea's Bounty?

 

1st thing I did is remove the word druid, because a skin-walker is closer to what the cards envision, so "druid" can be saved for a proper druid class which comes along.  It also takes the class out of strictly Celtic origins, as therianthropy is a global mythic trope.

The other name changes are either to make them sound more descriptive of the actual ability, or to better fit theme as I see it.

 

I also agree that the werewolf should not have separate HPs; it is needlessly fiddly.  The hero and his werewolf form should share the same HP pool, and the werewolf is simply hardier by means of defense dice and other innate abilities.
 
By selecting the class, perhaps the hero can gain +2 HP right off the bat on his/her basic class card.
Edited by Mlai

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I will change some names since some of your ideas are better than mine. (evergreen staff is really great, with Wild Guardian and Dancing Earth, Annointed is not so great but Totem's favor is strange since there's no totem and could block the possibility to play a totem based class)

 

About the druid's word logic, I'm not sure. In my idea, a druid is a shapeshifter and cannot be anything else (see diablo 2, for example), so I created it this way with this in mind.

 

Removing the fact that the druid and the werewolf have separated HP amount would change the logic and the balance of the class. The idea was to make a healer that could change into a warrior with some restrictions. What would be the use of morphing into werewolf if you gain only some dice change and the loss of equipment, and furthermore in the first quests ?

 

I'm going to test it some more and see about balance and troubles and change some things with thoses returns.

Edited by rugal

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ha, sorry, I misunderstand.

 

Yes, I tought the first time on multiple changing, but it's too difficult to really balance and bring easy reading and wording.

 

I will think of it.

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When I think of a druid, the first thing that comes to mind is a healer/sage who draws his/hers power from nature (plants/herbal lore, affinity/talking with animals and such), more like the druid from the Asterix and Obelix comic series:p I think that is what Mlai means.

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Annointed is not so great but Totem's favor is strange since there's no totem and could block the possibility to play a totem based class)

 

About the druid's word logic, I'm not sure. In my idea, a druid is a shapeshifter and cannot be anything else (see diablo 2, for example), so I created it this way with this in mind.

 

Removing the fact that the druid and the werewolf have separated HP amount would change the logic and the balance of the class. The idea was to make a healer that could change into a warrior with some restrictions. What would be the use of morphing into werewolf if you gain only some dice change and the loss of equipment, and furthermore in the first quests ?

 

I'm going to test it some more and see about balance and troubles and change some things with thoses returns.

1. The "Anointed" card combines 2 dissimilar abilities, and was therefore hard to name.  If you don't want to use the word totem, then I can only suggest "Blood & Claw".

 

2. As for druids... I am only familiar with the historical and mythological basis for druids, since I'm a fan of Arthurian and Celtic lore.  I don't know what Blizzard and Wizards Of The Coast have done to corrupt the word, except to say that I turn my nose up at whatever they have done.

 

3. I don't understand why you think the WW needs a separate HP pool in order to be a warrior.  For example, if you gave it a black die, natural regeneration, the ability to shrug off light damage, and increased ability to dodge... why would it need more HPs?

 

I think what he means is that normally a Druid can shapeshift into multiple things, not just a (were)wolf? So that way there is room for a class that has different mechanics and allows for more forms.

Nawh, I didn't mean that.  I simply meant that a Druid is more like a pagan wizard, as opposed to the more urbane Hermetic wizard.

Edited by Mlai

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Was changing some name to

 

Druid's staff -> Evergreen staff (this one is great, thanks so much !)

Annointed -> Yggdrasill's favor (but "blood and claw" is not so bad, remind me of "tooth and nails" from Magic)

Primitive -> Wrath of Nature
Nature's power -> Wild Guardian (thanks again for this one !)

 

I'm not so fan of Quick shapeshifting, maybe master instead of quick ?

 

Same for Inner strengh, but since there's two distincitve ability, maybe Gift of Nature ?

 

2. I can really understand this, and maybe you're right. I will see think of something else that could go instead of druid, but I can guaratee you to find something that will fit to me

 

3. In fact, you asking me to change many if not all of the werewolf part of the skills, then ? And I hadn't in mind to create such a beast but more a healer that can change to a weaponless warrior at will and even at small XP. So, the HP change is the basis of my logic and will.

I can think about to change some things. Please provide some ideas and toughts and I will be happy to discuss and change from then.

 

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Inner Strength -> Primal Strength?

Shapeshift card, Werewolf Shape:
1. At the start of the hero's turn in werewolf form, automatically spend 1 Fatigue and recover 1 HP.  The hero immediately reverts back to standard form if there's no available Fatigue to spend.
2. 'Stealthy' ability

 

I feel like there should be a restriction on how long you can be in this powered-up werewolf mode.  By restricting it, you are also free to make the form more badass without becoming unbalanced.

 

Feral (Feral Blood) card, Werewolf Shape:
Add 1 GREEN power die to your attack pool.

 

The green die has more surge, which allows the hero to stay as werewolf longer (if he chooses).

Edited by Mlai

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ok, so you want to limit the transformation by some sort of time ?

 

I was avoiding this, so, sorry, but no. I don't intended him to have some sort of tank of warmachine, but more a class who could be 2 in 1 but it needs the hero to spend action and time to do so.

Edited by rugal

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Congratulations on having created a very interesting new class. I think the hero who would play best with it would be Okaluk & Rakash. 2 speed and 8 health turning into 5 speed and 12 health is amazing, especially with his exceptional hero ability.

 

And it would be very thematic: sometimes he would be Okaluk, sometimes Rakash. :D

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Thank you !

 

Played already, and for sure, it's a real good combinaison.

But Brother Gherrin is also a real cool one, who can deals massive damages and do his heroic feat with more ease.

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Some questions for this awesome class. 

How many spaces does the werewolf proxy occupy? I ask because the mini I have is 4 spaces :P

And...does a character still discard a rejuvenate token even if they have full health or must you only discard it when you would recover 1 health? 

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The werewolf should be the same size than the hero  : 1 space.

 

Yes, the rejuvenation is automatic, so, even if it's useless, you need to discard it anyway. In fact, it's "discard 1 rejuvenate token and then recovers 1".

 

And thanks for the awesome ! :)

Edited by rugal

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I liked the overall concept of your druid class, but I feel like the abilities are a little busy and generic.  I would personally focus less on having each ability give something to both shapes and focus more on more powerful abilities for one form or the other per ability.  Then you have to choose more which form you are going to concentrate on.  

 

For instance, I think it is a shame to not give the werewolf an attack that targets multiple adjacent enemies.  It's a werewolf, it should have a frenzy ability that allows it to swing away.  Personally, I would have rigged the werewolf ability so that at the beginning of that hero's activation they must choose a form, and they are stuck in that form until the next activation.  Then the werewolf is totally attack oriented and the druid is totally support related.  

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The Overall idea was to have all cards doublesided effects and not only one to avoid breaking balance and focusing on one form or another, and I had tought of it on the idea that the druid may change form at will for one action.

 

In your idea, the druid would change automatically on the form he wants at the start of his turn and be locked on it the whole turn and cards would be on druid or werewolf, but not both ?

 

It isn't what I wanted to do if it's the case.

 

You don't think that the way it is, the druid is already heal and support ortiented, and werewolf attack ?

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The Overall idea was to have all cards doublesided effects and not only one to avoid breaking balance and focusing on one form or another, and I had tought of it on the idea that the druid may change form at will for one action.

 

In your idea, the druid would change automatically on the form he wants at the start of his turn and be locked on it the whole turn and cards would be on druid or werewolf, but not both ?

 

It isn't what I wanted to do if it's the case.

 

You don't think that the way it is, the druid is already heal and support ortiented, and werewolf attack ?

 

I do think they have clear, separate roles.  I just feel that each individual class card gives a very tiny boost to both roles.  Having both roles on a single class card limits the space you have to describe the ability, which I think leads to relatively generic abilities like adding a yellow dice to all werewolf attacks.  

 

Flavor-wise, requiring an action to change forms greatly limits the effectiveness of either class.  You are currently the druid, you want to attack, so you waste an action to change to the werewolf, then you cannot move AND attack that turn anyway. (I realize some of the abilities effect that problem, but you have to have those abilities to be effective at all.)  Personally, I feel that it backs the player into a corner of using only one of the forms preferentially, as you wouldn't want to waste actions switching back and forth.  If you can automatically shift at the beginning of each activation, you can then effectively attack as the werewolf OR effectively heal as the druid, but not both.  You would also have to consider the defensive side of things before you could switch back, leading to some interesting choices that have to be made.

 

"Ferocious Frenzy - Special Action - While in WEREWOLF form, you may attack two adjacent enemies.  Roll attack dice separately for each attack. - 2 Fatigue"

 

"Leaping Assault - Special Action - While in WEREWOLF form, remove your figure from the board.  Place your figure in any empty space within 3 spaces, and perform an attack. - 2 Fatigue"

 

You could still have some class abilities which would be very simple for both forms.  "While in DRUID form, when another hero within 2 spaces is attacked, you can choose to suffer all damage dealt. --- Add a grey dice to your defense pool while in WEREWOLF form."  Save space by devising a symbol for "While in DRUID form" and "While in WEREWOLF form."  

 

But in general, all classes have different 'tracks' to choose from with abilities.  Healers (at least the two classes I have used) have attack oriented abilities (such as Divine Fury and Shared Pain), defensive abilities (such as Armor of Faith and Stone Skin), and pure recovery abilities.  The interesting aspect of a 'two-form' class, IMO, is the planning that is required on each turn to use both effectively.  If you want to deal damage, you won't be able to heal.  If you want to heal, you won't be able to deal damage.  You have to choose to invest in one or the other at a time, and so with each new ability acquired, your character would change greatly in focus.  

 

In summary, I think the free change ability allows you to choose which role you are going to use without an action penalty, but still comes with a cost in being locked in for that activation.  I think separating the abilities allows for more flavorful abilities and a greater opportunity cost decision with each purchase.  Personally, I think that would be fun to play with.

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I see your point, but tough, I did this class like this because I wanted it to be really unique by having half cards and so each card would provides 2 abilities for each of the form to avoid what you're pointing out.

 

In fact, the metamorphosing system was very hard to balance and it tooks me some times (month) to come to something like this. If cards where giving power to only druid or werewolf shape, it would poses problems.
- for example, at the same amount of experience, the druid would not be as strong as other heroes who would have their skill always avalaibe, and not with conditions.

- it would aslo means that the druid would not change shape often, since it would not be of some use, and in fact, it would be more usefull to play it more one or another form always

 

The way I may it now, and for having played it many times, is really unique and sometimes frustrating since you cannot do all you want to, and if the class is somehow "perfect" the way it is, you always lacking of actions to do all you want to.

 

Same for the "free action shapeshifting", it would really break balance and offers to much of power IMO. I can test it just to see, but I'm not sure it would work.

 

The only troubles on the class as it is rests on the "quick shapeshifting" card who is a must have card to play the druid at best. (and I need to find another name, this one doesn't pleases me)

 

Please test the class as it is, and give me your feedback after so I could change some things. Personnaly, me and friends played it around ten times and I must say it's good like it is.

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I see your point, but tough, I did this class like this because I wanted it to be really unique by having half cards and so each card would provides 2 abilities for each of the form to avoid what you're pointing out.

 

In fact, the metamorphosing system was very hard to balance and it tooks me some times (month) to come to something like this. If cards where giving power to only druid or werewolf shape, it would poses problems.

- for example, at the same amount of experience, the druid would not be as strong as other heroes who would have their skill always avalaibe, and not with conditions.

- it would aslo means that the druid would not change shape often, since it would not be of some use, and in fact, it would be more usefull to play it more one or another form always

 

The way I may it now, and for having played it many times, is really unique and sometimes frustrating since you cannot do all you want to, and if the class is somehow "perfect" the way it is, you always lacking of actions to do all you want to.

 

Same for the "free action shapeshifting", it would really break balance and offers to much of power IMO. I can test it just to see, but I'm not sure it would work.

 

The only troubles on the class as it is rests on the "quick shapeshifting" card who is a must have card to play the druid at best. (and I need to find another name, this one doesn't pleases me)

 

Please test the class as it is, and give me your feedback after so I could change some things. Personnaly, me and friends played it around ten times and I must say it's good like it is.

Sounds like you put a lot of thought into it and play tested it significantly.  I'll try it out sometime, possibly with one of the solo campaigns, and let you know what I think.

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I agree partially with Tomkat and Rugal. First I need to admit that I do not personally like or would use Rugal's custom classes, but I do like the thought experiments of talking about his custom classes.

Tomkat: I agree with Rugal that having ability cards which only give 1 form or the other more power would make for lopsided builds which defeats the purpose of a class which should be able to jump between 2 equal but different "skill trees".

Rugal: I agree with Tomkat that many of your cards give un-exciting progression. Card: Now your werewolf gets an extra yellow die... woot? What Tomkat wanted were visceral thematic skills which make you feel like you are an apex predator.

Now, I also partially agree with Tomkat that using an action to change form is too huge a cost for switching. This game is all about economy of actions; losing actions repeatedly as a hero just for setup of accessing skills... it's handing the OL the game. Yes, Quick Transform fixes that (partially)... but it's a 3xp card!

But I also agree that free switching is too powerful. So, how about you can switch without action (limited to start of turn only), but it costs fatigue? Or, make Quick Transform a 1xp card.

Edited by Mlai

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All of your remarks are great, but lack one point : gameplay and playtesting.

 

I playtested it many times, and I tried to choose the best solution ever.

 

You are a bit too much on thematic on this one. I choose to morph the druid into werewolf because I liked werewolf and reminds me of Diablo 2, but It could have been just wolf or bear, so the "apex predator" is just from this.

 

Since the werewolf shape cannot use equipment, the "add 1 yellow die to your attack" and "add 1 black die to your defense pool" was necessary because there's no other way the werewolf could gain power and defense, and a classic hero has 3 die in attack and 2 dice in defense in act 2, so, there's nothing "strange" here, this is just balance.

And many skills are made from this logic. Since all the game is about weapon, making a class weaponless needs some particular balances. And don't forget that the druid is a healer and not a warrior, so it should not be as strong as a warrior, just being some sort of alternative fighter to second the warrior but not replacing his role fully.

 

About the morphing system, I do also thinks that an action is a bit much, but making it free or just fatigue could pose so problem. Action free is cheat, for sure and out of the question. With only fatigue, there is some troubles since if the hero has not the fatigue, it would be stuck into a form, this troubles is removed with the action.

And finally, the last troubles remains in the fact that if it is actionless, the druid would morph all the time to do the best choice each turn, without any counterpart. With the action, you need to choose wisely what you want to do for the next turn at least, and the OL can a bit predict how to counterattack the druid because this class is real strong and can covert many troubles more than any class.

 

So, you should test it, it just need some printing ;)

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Game balance is great but not if the play isn't fun. I've participated in community balance patch mods, so I have plenty experience with that dichotomy.

I'm not saying making the werewolf stronger in Act 2 is wrong to do. But wasting a card just to give the form a yellow dice or black dice is not evocative. It doesnt make you feel like oh boy this class looks violent, aside from the plastic mini of a werewolf that was arbitrarily chosen. Where is the wolf in the rules?

So what to do? For example, you could say ok, this card gives Leap Attack ability, and in addition this card ability gives additional attack dice during this special attack. There, 2 birds with 1 stone. It also makes more planning necessary because the card would be exhausted, which means this +yellow die special attack is only once a turn, rather than once you get this card all your attacks are straight-up stronger you don't even have to think anymore.

That is just a quick example prior to balance tweaks. But you see what I mean in terms of game design.

As for action vs fatigue, did you just say that fatigue is more costly to the hero?? No, even if transformation costs 2 fatigue, it is still less costly than costing an action. 1 action = 1 full rest.

Edited by Mlai

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