Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ken at Sunrise

FFG News - X-Wing™ for Beginners

Recommended Posts

The only part of the article I winced at was when they said "If you're ambitious and want to pick up a "large" ship right away, stick with the Millennium Falcon or Slave I."

 

I didn't wince because I think they are bad ships for a newbie to buy, I winced because if they buy the Millennium Falcon right now and then in two months they see the Heroes of the Resistance expansion they are definitely going to feel pretty crappy.

 

But they would get different pilots and upgrades in the original Millennium Falcon expansion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe, as others have said, the problem isn't game balance or even the efficiency of an X and Y Wings.

 

But rather the expectations and outcry of the hyper-competitive tournament crowd. Gee that sounds harsh, sorry I don't mean it to. There are different types of players and I don't intend it as derogatory. Also very few if any players would like a ship so unbalanced that it has no value in the game. Sometimes buff/fixes are good. Also you might have noticed that I've been one bemoaning the complexity of Star Wars: X-Wing and often saying that it is no longer a simple game.

 

At the same time, without all of the upgrades, buff, fixes, etc. And without all of the newer expansions that can be overwhelming Star Wars: X-Wing can be easy, reasonably balanced and fun to play. Please note that I said reasonably balanced. Not perfectly or even tournament level but good enough to have fun and still win.

 

I would disagree that the falcon is a good starting point. The introduction of a turreted high hit point ship early in a new players experience, I think at least, takes a lot away from the game. Also, as mentioned, the one from the latest movie will be out soon anyway.

Edited by Ken at Sunrise

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's some real advice

Imperial? Ep 7 core withimpp vets and tie/fo

Nothing better for beginners than the very forgiving x7 while FOs are a blast to fly and come easy built with juke relay omega l and wired WG zeta L and some forth bloke (eps ace prob)

Reb? Both core sets and a K

Biggs Poe (r2d2) and tlt Miranda

Proxy ia and thrusters if needed

Regen and tlt are very forgiving and Biggs helps cover sloppy approaches

Alternatively, red core with Luke and the four stolen ties once they're out :P

Edited by ficklegreendice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While we can debate about what this article said one thing I think stands true, THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY ADDICTIVE GAME. I have never played Magic, 40k, or any miniatures or lcg/ccg ever, nor did I have the desire too. I bought this game for my brother in law for Christmas 2014 and became mildly interested in it. He invited me over and taught me how to play and I've been hooked ever since. While I don't have a huge collection as some do, I went from spending $40 on this game to over $800.

Here is where I think this article has merit. If you can just get people to try this game even with earlier ships like the x-wing and y-wing (ships easily recognizable for any star wars fan) you have a good chance of getting that person hooked. Gonna lose a lot with those ships? Who cares! My first build was 2 x-wing and a hwk during wave 5. I lost alot, but had so much fun I didn't care. Eventually I built my collection up enough that I am competitive now at store championships. We can debate the wording of the article, but from the standpoint of welcoming potential players to the game who may be browsing around and on the fence about it, it does it's job.

Edited by Evenflow30

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New player here:

 

I have the two core sets, a X-wing expansion, and an Interceptor expansion.  I'm having a blast playing with my son and a friend from church.  Would I do well in a tournament?  Probably not.  Do I feel the need to be "competitive" at this point (or ever)?  Probably not.  As long as I can continue to "pew-pew" and throw a few bucks at FFG for more toys every now and then, I'm happy.  

This article was written for me.

Edited by Piscopas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is ironic that recently I have two friends ask to come over for an afternoon of X-Wing.

 

I need to put together some lists for us to play.

 

Not over the top or complicated.

 

Get a third friend and play 2 vs. 2 if you can.  We play four 100 point squads until one side has scored 150 points (half damage on large ships count as half points too), next time I'm going to dial it back to 125 points though. I find that it helps to level the playing field on some of the overpowered stuff. 

 

Also, I use the online squadron builder and print the four lists on legal sized paper to save space, but I put the pilot cards on the table to stack the shield tokens and damage cards on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ive noticed this about a lot of developers trying to put up guides for their game. Its usually littered with how they think it works, not how it actually works.

In fact the only time ive seen the developer of a game actually understand it at a level not many can is Dan, the guy that made Rivals of Aether on steam. Dude will wreck anyone at that game (thing competitive smash bros 1on1) lol.

 

This is just littered with bad advice....wow...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there! either o forgot or this is my first post on this forums. I bought xwing a while ago, but not play as much as i want to. We recently began to play with 3 more guys and between us we have, two core sets, the imperial aces ( the red painted interceptors) the rebel aces with the a and a b wing one blue core set an extra NO tie fighter The milleniun falcon the slave 1, the tie phantom, an y wing. Maybe some of you like nien numb are already making faces of disgust, kidding ;) The saw the guide and pretty much we got that part understood already. The thing is that there is no bridge between BASIC knowledge and way more advanced xwing-phd science!!!. I DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT THE HELL IS META!!! Dont understand half of the abreviations, english is not my first language so that doesnt help a lot. So my question is where can i find step 3 4 5 6 7. We got step 1 and 2, but any other info i have manged to find is like STEP 9 and 10 way beyond our little feeble minds. we manouver pretty well, we play now with obstacles and even invented satellites that you can blow up with your shots and damge nearby ships. We play with the upgrades and critical. We have a common pool of ships so we take turns to pick up perks and upgrades at the begginig (pathetic arent we?). Its a lot of fun, and at least with us is (we are all dumb as a brick) the game is ballanced and with a couple of six packs its a complete blast! Where can i find info or strategyes to breach from kindergarten to maybe high school level of xwing. THANK YOU !!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ive noticed this about a lot of developers trying to put up guides for their game. Its usually littered with how they think it works, not how it actually works.

In fact the only time ive seen the developer of a game actually understand it at a level not many can is Dan, the guy that made Rivals of Aether on steam. Dude will wreck anyone at that game (thing competitive smash bros 1on1) lol.

 

This is just littered with bad advice....wow...

 

Once again, this article was not geared towards new players instantly becoming pros at the game or how to play competitively. It's written to assist beginners to the game on how to play and get into the game.

 

Note that their key points were:

1. Focus on learning how to maneuver

2. Start with ships that are easy to fly and learn, and are iconic.

3. Don't fear competitive play. Go to a tournament and learn from the experience.

Edited by Derpzilla88

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

X-wing is absolutely a game for beginners.

I can't imagine how you can fool yourself into thinking you weren't one at some point.

Eh. it's a lot different if you started in Wave 1 and spent ~$50-100 twice a year on each new Wave and have been playing in tournaments for four years.  That's not even comparable to trying to start out now from square zero.  To say otherwise is, I think, optimistically naive.  It's like starting to play Magic now: sure, it can be done, but it takes a hell of a lot of commitment and investment to catch up to vets who have been playing for years.  You can't just buy a a few packs and go expect to win.  This isn't a bad thing, it's just the nature of the game.  But to publish an article that says the opposite is, I think, questionable.

Atlanta has first hand evidence of guys stumbling up at regionals, saying "whoa this looks fun what is it" and then being regional competitive before the next year.

So get out of here with all that mess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ive noticed this about a lot of developers trying to put up guides for their game. Its usually littered with how they think it works, not how it actually works.

In fact the only time ive seen the developer of a game actually understand it at a level not many can is Dan, the guy that made Rivals of Aether on steam. Dude will wreck anyone at that game (thing competitive smash bros 1on1) lol.

 

This is just littered with bad advice....wow...

This article wasn't even written by developers ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you lie to new players and tell them that there are no overpowered ships or upgrade combinations and that everything is perfectly viable, you're setting them up to fail and you're going to end up driving them away.

New players need power lists and instructions on how to fly those lists and why those upgrades or ships in particular are powerful.

Or else they'll show up with Mauler Mithel and Expose. "But that's 5 dice at range 1!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't go as far as PGS and just hand out Palp aces, but sometimes flying gr8a p makes you feel like crap when you accomplish nothing v an opponent

And that's not even slamming a new player with tip top tournie lists because you fear your community growing, but there are several things in the game we know are horribly suboptimal and should be avoided

And I'm not even talking about entire shiptypes, just making sure players know what they're in for

for example, little timmy's all gung go for the shuttle (10 health guys!!!!) you might want to tell him to just start with one and Vader crew and see if it's the ship for him

If you exclude tip top tier competition, there are still oodles of useful and fun ships to fly

problem is some need a bit of fenangling (ie anything with a title fix not available in a good value aces style pack)

And then there's stuff like the punisher where you're morally obligated to let em know that ffg done goofed and if they like the ship they'll buy it anyway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game is not for beginners. It is an arms race. If you start with the beginning set, you will find that you are out-everything. And, it is incredibly expensive. Just to get one of everything released - the playing pieces - will set back a person by over a thousand dollars. And to focus on one faction, it will cost hundreds of dollars.

 

Some of us do not have friends who have the same interest or have a computer that will not work with Vassal. So, the experience will be at the game store. This is hit and miss. Sometimes, other players will be there. Sometimes, they won't be. So, the new player may find themselves never developing the skills to be more than a novice in the game.

 

There are over 500 players in my area, in the Northern California area, based on the Facebook page. These players are asking other players if they will be at this game store or that game store.  As far as i know, and as far I saw, I never saw it where a player suggested that there be games outside the game stores, outside the leagues, outside the tournaments. So, this game is not for people who coming from a background like that described in the second paragraph as they will never have the skills to be successful at the game. 

 

So, no, this game is not for beginners. It is for those who have a well-developed community of like-minded individuals, who have played other miniatures and/or collectible card games, who have the time to learn the game, who have the time to build lists and to play these lists against other players, who have the time to listen and read the accounts of those who have played the game, who have the time to go great distances to play tournaments in distant cities, who have the resources - where it is not a decision over priorities (do I buy this model or do I pay bills?) - to buy the game pieces. This last is important as this is an arms race. If you are playing with the first wave, you will not succeed against someone who is playing one of the more recent waves. There is too much a difference in the game between the first wave and the eighth wave. 

Edited by Lakenheath 72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the perspective of a primarily casual X-wing gamer such as myself, the article's views are largely correct.  The game of X-wing is, generally speaking, easy to learn.  The core mechanics are easy enough to pick up within a half hour or so, and you can have a fun time playing at that level, depending on your personality, your opponent, the environment, etc. etc.  The ships and pilots do land within a reasonably balanced range of each other if you are not playing the known top combos.  And there are ways to play that don't involve throwing yourself to the lions of the tournaments.

 

lknmh.jpg

Obi-Wan explains why he told Luke that X-wing is balanced

 

 

The game is however building a progressively steeper learning curve with each expansion as new game mechanics are introduced, and the full game (the competitive metagame) is becoming more nuanced and unforgiving.  If you were a new player in wave one facing top lists, I think you would have had a more fair and enjoyable game than if you tried the same thing today.  The difference between the uninitiated and the expert has in my opinion grown significantly since those times.  

 

71084602.jpg

 

I think the argument that you shouldn't be afraid of tournaments should have been qualified.  If you don't mind learning through losses, you shouldn't be afraid of tournaments.  If you are afraid that x-wing players are mean, don't be - the vast majority are quite pleasant.  New players are welcome in the x-wing community.  

 

It should also be noted that casual game nights at game clubs are sometimes used for tournament practice, although that probably varies by club.  It never hurts to point out that you are new before a game starts.  A tournament player looking for practice will not gain anything by crushing a new player with their A++ tournament list, and if the new player doesn't know the context of what's happening, they might be discouraged for no good reason.  

 

Also, there are a ton of ways to play X-wing, many of which are less developed and deadly than top-tier tournament play.  Heroes of the Aturi Cluster is a great way to start out and to hook people into the game.  As a new player joining a group running a campaign, the investment is no more than an one rebel ship, (if that).  The missions in the core sets and other expansions are also fun ways to play a few low-intensity games, as are many community-authored missions.  

Edited by Babaganoosh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game is not for beginners. It is an arms race. If you start with the beginning set, you will find that you are out-everything. And, it is incredibly expensive. Just to get one of everything released - the playing pieces - will set back a person by over a thousand dollars. And to focus on one faction, it will cost hundreds of dollars.

 

Some of us do not have friends who have the same interest or have a computer that will not work with Vassal. So, the experience will be at the game store. This is hit and miss. Sometimes, other players will be there. Sometimes, they won't be. So, the new player may find themselves never developing the skills to be more than a novice in the game.

 

There are over 500 players in my area, in the Northern California area, based on the Facebook page. These players are asking other players if they will be at this game store or that game store.  As far as i know, and as far I saw, I never saw it where a player suggested that there be games outside the game stores, outside the leagues, outside the tournaments. So, this game is not for people who coming from a background like that described in the second paragraph as they will never have the skills to be successful at the game. 

 

So, no, this game is not for beginners. It is for those who have a well-developed community of like-minded individuals, who have played other miniatures and/or collectible card games, who have the time to learn the game, who have the time to build lists and to play these lists against other players, who have the time to listen and read the accounts of those who have played the game, who have the time to go great distances to play tournaments in distant cities, who have the resources - where it is not a decision over priorities (do I buy this model or do I pay bills?) - to buy the game pieces. This last is important as this is an arms race. If you are playing with the first wave, you will not succeed against someone who is playing one of the more recent waves. There is too much a difference in the game between the first wave and the eighth wave. 

Sound to me like maybe your area isn't friendly for beginners, but there's no reason to assume that your area is the norm for the rest of the world. Your experiences do not mean the game is not friendly for new players.

 

I mean, tons of kid buy Magic cards for some kitchen-table Magic and have a ton of fun without ever stepping into a game store. I see no reason to assume that X-Wing does not have a similar situation. You will never see those people at the game store and you will most likely not see them on the forums, but they are still having fun with their ships. And you know what? They were beginners at some point.

 

Anecdote: There is a Facebook group for X-Wing in my area as well. I hardly ever post there and neither do my three closest X-Wing buddies. Our game store closed and now we just meet at homes. If we were in your area, you would assume that we didn't exist because you would never hear from us. But just because you don't see posts about meeting up at people's homes, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked the downloadable guide attached to the article. Start playing, just maneuvers at first, then a couple rounds in, introduce actions, and build from there.

 

And I've always recommended that a new player buy a Y-Wing and TIE Advanced to go with their Core Set first. The learning curve on additional actions and upgrade possibilities isn't that steep, and it stays iconic.

 

I'd like to see FFG take this article one step further, and provide a simple campaign that has the objectives of gradual gameplay mastery and thematic build escalation. Start with A New Hope style missions, only X,Y,TIE and TIE Advanced. Then go for Empire Strikes Back, where Falcon and Xwing face off against Firespray and TIE Bomber. Return of the Jedi adds A- and B-Wings, TIE Interceptor and Lambda Shuttle. Run a couple of missions based on each movie, release it for free and distribute it to the community to use as a LGS league feature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...