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AndrewTheDOP

Landing on Debris and Squads, which first? Also: cards forgotten

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Hi

 

Just played at a local store tournament. Ran into a couple problems.

 

Opponents Demolisher simultaneously lands on a debris field, also overlapping 2 of my X wings.

Demolisher was down several shields already.

 

So: Does the effect of the debris field occur first, then the squadrons are placed, or the other way around.

 

Our interpretation was that the squadrons are removed, then the effects of the debris occur, then the squadrons are placed.  This order left an arc without shields and the squadrons were then placed adjacent to that arc.

 

Correct?

 

Second Issue:

 

the next game, an opponent had all his ship and upgrade cards laid out, but forgot to lay out Expanded Launchers and Ordinance Experts with his Demolisher.  He also had a printed list with him to verify that these cards were indeed supposed to be in his build.

 

So into round two, Demolisher is supposed to fire and he realizes he forgot to put out the cards.  However, had I known that those cards were on that ship I wouldn't have gone head to head with it.  Eventually we decided that those upgraded cards wouldn't be used for that round, but could be added the next round.

 

However had this been a bigger event, I would argue that the printed list isn't valid, its the cards on the table that count.  

 

Thoughts?

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The Second Issue, well, that's entirely different for Competition vs Casual...  So that's up to individual arguments, there is no rule for Casual, as all rules are for Tournament...

 

 

 

For the First issue:

 

If the final position would overlap Squadrons...  Then You move the Squadrons out of the Way.  You then Finish your Maneuver, and then place those squadrons back...

 

After you have finished your Maneuver, then the Debris Field takes effect...  

 

 

 

The Precedent for this was given to us previously in an Email from FFG, which said if you are resolving a Ship and Station overlap, then the Ship damage would take effect before the Station healed you...  

If you are overlapping multiple obstacles, you can choose the order...

 

But in the Ship Overlap, the Ship comes first.

 

ANd the Squadron and Ship overlap section is the same section...  So you would apply the precedent in question...

 

 

HOWEVER.

 

There is no rule, and if you want to consider it 'simultanious', then you can...  If you do so, however, then the 1st Player, 2nd Player rule will come into effect, in which case the 1st Player will have to resolve all of HIS effects first...  Then the Second Player does so...  So if the First Player is moving the Ship, then the Debris will come first...  if the Second player is moving the Ship, then the Squadrons will come first...

 

OR

 

You as the overlapper can decide in which order to do it, as you overlapped both of them, and their your effects with the same timing, so you can decide which way it goes...

 

 

...

 

My Advice?

Go number 1.  Squadrons Then Obstacle, just like Ship Then Obstacle.  It takes all the Wishy-washyness out of it, satisfies all of the rules in question, follows precedent, and ends arguments :D

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On the second matter, tournement rules for missing components are :

 

Lost and Damaged Components

If a player loses a component during a tournament, he or she has an opportunity to find a replacement, if necessary. Any player that discovers they are missing an essential component at the beginning of or during a round should notify a leader. The leader will give the player a short time extension to their game in order to find a replacement. If the player cannot find a replacement within that time, they must concede the game. If the player is unable to find a replacement by the start of the next round, they should be removed from the tournament.

 

So he should have been allowed to put them out if he had forgotten to.

As long as the mistake was sort out nicely, thats great

 

I'm sure your opponent will always make sure he has all his cards next time he plays

 

Have fun, fly casual

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I tend to agree with the above, especially in a casual setting.

And it always pays to ask why they aren't running OE, if they don't have the card out. That way hopefully they'll catch their error right off the bat, or if it's not an error you can glimpse through the window of their mind into pure insanity.

hashtagdrama

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I'm not sure if I would consider a missing upgrade an "essential component". The concern is that the upgrades were important enough to alter the other players strategy. Simply saying "oops" and surprising them with new abilities is not fair nor how the game is ment to be played. You are basically allowing hidden information so long as they claim "I forgot".

I would suggest just continue playing and scoring that match as if the upgrades were not there. Hopefully they remember next time.

Put it this way, if they forgot to place a squadron from their list, would you find it fair for them to place it mid match?

The rules for essential components sounds more like command dials, tokens, etc.

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With regards to the missing cards, I would say that if my opponent handed me his list and I knew he had those cards, then we both missed that the cards weren't there and as it shouldn't be a surprise to me I would be OK playing them. On the other hand if my opponent did not hand me a list and there was therefore very little chance I would be aware of the upgrades then he can do without. Just remember if you make him play without the cards, not unreasonably, then you do not score points for those cards if you destroy his ship.

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