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John Constantine

Madness: an MtG keyword that would feel itself right at home within LotR LCG

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To start things properly, there is a keyword in a game of Magic: the Gathering, fairly new one if I'm not mistaken, called Madness.

 

A card with Madness, when discarded from hand, may be immediately played for it Madness cost (the keyword is printed with the cost attached to it).

 

Do you catch my drift? Imagine how Noldor would enjoy this kind of keyword. Some regular decks might enjoy it as well.

 

I would adapt it into rules as something like:

Madness X - when a card with Madness keyword is discarded from a player's hand, that player may immediately play that card as if it was in his hand, paying it's Madness cost (X). Resource match is required to pay Madness cost, if applicible.

 

And let me smash you with a 2 minutes proof of concept:

 

FSvM3CMg45c.jpg

Edited by John Constantine

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Madness was introduced in the Odyssey block back in 2001, so its been around for quite a while.

 

I personally dislike the idea of adding too many keywords to LOTR. Each keyword means you have to remember a lot of stuff as you play. Having quest-specific keywords is bad enough, but at least they're fairly limited in how many are on each quest - having too many keywords on player cards just makes the game more complicated.

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Madness was introduced in the Odyssey block back in 2001, so its been around for quite a while.

 

I personally dislike the idea of adding too many keywords to LOTR. Each keyword means you have to remember a lot of stuff as you play. Having quest-specific keywords is bad enough, but at least they're fairly limited in how many are on each quest - having too many keywords on player cards just makes the game more complicated.

 

Agreed, and I'm not sure if we need a whole group of allies/attachments using this mechanic.  However, I could see it on one or two cards as a "Response"...

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I find that "too many keywords" argument extremely weak on many levels, starting from the fact that there are very few actual player keywords, proceeding with that you don't have to actually remember every keyword at any second of given time, just the ones that are used in your deck (a process you have full control of), and finishing with a nice practice that is used within MtG itself and could be easily used anywhere else (if it wasn't used already):

 

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You can always describe the rules of keyword on the very cards it's printed on, if space allows. This'll make for much easier learning and remembering.

 

 

Madness was introduced in the Odyssey block back in 2001, so its been around for quite a while.

 

I personally dislike the idea of adding too many keywords to LOTR. Each keyword means you have to remember a lot of stuff as you play. Having quest-specific keywords is bad enough, but at least they're fairly limited in how many are on each quest - having too many keywords on player cards just makes the game more complicated.

 

Agreed, and I'm not sure if we need a whole group of allies/attachments using this mechanic.  However, I could see it on one or two cards as a "Response"...

 

It's not about what some ambiguous group you call "we" needs. The game on itself doesn't needs anything, if they stop releasing packs right now - players will be good for years with the content games has. It's about what would be cool. And mechanic similar to Madness would definitely be cool, because it's insanely interactive and allows for some crazy shenanigans and game design twists, not to mention the whole thing of turning a downside into the upside.

Edited by John Constantine

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It's not about what some ambiguous group you call "we" needs. The game on itself doesn't needs anything

 

Indeed. It doesn't need a proliferation of keywords, either. I don't dislike the concept, I just don't see the need for more keywords than we've already got.

Edited by CaffeineAddict

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It's not about what some ambiguous group you call "we" needs. The game on itself doesn't needs anything

Indeed. It doesn't need a proliferation of keywords, either. I don't dislike the concept, I just don't see the need for more keywords than we've already got.

If we actually dig into the keywords, it's more a neccessity than a taste matter. When a new mechanic is introduced into the game, if it's consistent enough - it's only natural to turn it into the keyword rather than print that long same description on dozens of different cards.

 

And, by the way, this thread is not about whether this game should have more keywords or not, so I would appreciate that if you won't continue posting here regarding this subject.

Edited by John Constantine

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Putting the dispute over the number of keywords aside (and recognizing that it has been around a long time), I think it's a great idea.  But since there isn't a stack in LOTR it isn't that different from "Play this card from your discard pile" is it?

 

Excellent point: we effectively already have the Madness keyword on Glorfindel, Lords of the Eldar, and Elven-light. The only difference is that in theory, a Madness cost could be different from the normal-play cost and/or give bonuses when used, and that simply would require extra card text on the current cards. (E.g., if Glorfindel were to get a bonus when being played from the discard pile, it could look like "Glorfindel can be played from your discard pile. If you do so, his cost is 6, and he gains +1 Will / +1 Atk until the end of the round.")

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But since there isn't a stack in LOTR it isn't that different from "Play this card from your discard pile" is it?

No. Let me explain the differences:

 

1. The main difference. Cards that can be played from your discard pile - can be permanently played from your discard pile as long as they are in your discard pile. Madness cards can only be played at the time they get discarded from your hand, which introduces such aspects as windows of opportunity and resource management, absent from cards that just can be played from discard pile.

 

2. Madness cost. Cards with Madness provide an unique design opportunity: you can alter their Madness cost from their printed cost (even without changing or adding anything else). An event may cost 2, but will cost 1 if played by Madness, etc.

 

3. You can tie cool additional effects around Madness. You can make a strong card that can be played cheaper with Madness but will be weaker if done so. You can make all sorts of cool things you can't with the cards that just can be played from your discard pile (well, you can, but that will be much more drudging on the card text).

 

 

Why make Noldor more complicated & powerful?

To match the Outlands, obviously. Duh.

Edited by John Constantine

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Do you think "Madness" fits in with the LoTR tradition? Most Tolkienian heroes seem fairly stoic northern barbarian types. And part of what Hobbits are abut is representing the stoicism of British Soldiers in the trenches of WW1.

 

Seems more like Cthulhu to me, but maybe I'm on my own here.

Edited by JonG

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Madness goes hand in hand with Delirium. Might as well call for that to be imported to the game in some form too :)

 

Delirium: An extra effect if four types of cards are in the discard pile.

 

I could see it used for, say, a card called "Many Partings", where it has one small effect for cheap, and an extra effect if there are at least four cards in the discard pile with Dúnedain, Hobbit, Noldor, Rohan or Dwarf keywords. Technically MtG's Delirium effect would have it be four different keywords, but I'd fudge it a little for LotR.

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Sorry, I don't get it. How Delirium would have to be four different keywords in LotR?

 

By the way, unlike Madness, Delirium is not a keyword you can "port" from MtG into LotR. That's because Madness only uses a digit to define it's cost, while each Delirium in MtG has it's own text box - a thing never before encountered in LotR LCG (or any other FFG card game to my knowledge).

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Sorry, I don't get it. How Delirium would have to be four different keywords in LotR?

 

If you were to import the mechanic fully, sure. But let's leave MtG where it is and let LotR be its own thing ;)

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Sorry, I don't get it. How Delirium would have to be four different keywords in LotR?

 

If you were to import the mechanic fully, sure. But let's leave MtG where it is and let LotR be its own thing ;)

That made as much sense as it did answer my question  :blink:

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