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Jegergryte

Enhance - the force leaping madness

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So. This may have been discussed before, or not, I can't remember and my search-fu is poor (at least with the search function of these forums.)

 

Let's say you have maxed out the leapy side of Enhance. How many leaps/jumps can you do per turn?

 

As the basic leap thing requires an Action, it is understood that you can do it once if you stop there on the tree. On the other hand, once you've bought the "may perform it as a maneuver" upgrade... so, twice? Three times? One action and two maneuvers?

 

Thoughts?

 

 

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Range band-wise, I would say count the effective maneuvers. If they're jumping to medium range each time, that's six effective maneuvers, so they could get to extreme range.

If you're talking actual numerical distance traveled, that's a bit trickier.

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If you have the upgrade that lets you leap a a maneuver, you could potentially Force Leap three times in a round: twice as a maneuver and once as an action.

 

Nope. Per the RAW, you can never take more than two maneuvers in a single round.

The last Force Leap would be a Force Leap Action not a maneuver so completely viable with the rules.

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If you have the upgrade that lets you leap a a maneuver, you could potentially Force Leap three times in a round: twice as a maneuver and once as an action.

 

Nope. Per the RAW, you can never take more than two maneuvers in a single round.

The last Force Leap would be a Force Leap Action not a maneuver so completely viable with the rules.

 

 

You're right. My mistake.

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So ... how would you translate that to actual distance travelled?

 

 

As in like... how many meters?

 

I'm not really clear as the Why. Movement is relative to something else, so if you're not moving in relation to another thing distance traveled becomes narrative...

 

Though just going off how the game describes the range bands, going form Short to Extreme means covering about a mile to a mile and a half. So assuming 1 round = 1 minute, that would have you running something like 60-75ish MPH.

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Your last point is kind of why I ask. I'm not fussed about meters, except in the case that you're moving really far, really fast if you can go all the way to extreme range. I was wondering if anyone had given it much thought.

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Trying to quantify it in meters is a trap for this system, as that quantity can change for any given encounter.

What is Medium range band on an open plain is not Medium range in a jungle, or on a spaceship. It's about the situation, and the story. There is no point in quantifying it if you want to retain narrative control of your game. The moment you quantify it, you have armed your PC with the ability to say, "Wait, I jumped 50 m that last time, why can't I now?" "Well because this situation has different footing, and Wond and uh..." You have to justify yourself now. Don't quantify it, it's not what range bands are for.

Edited by emsquared

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As for the range bands varying with locale, sure, I'm on board with that, but only within reason. For larger effect and adjustments you would use difficult terrain, which this power arguably ignores. Even some types of impassable terrain is arguably possible with this power.

 

Regarding the comparisons, I never saw the force speed as the equivalent of being a speedster or the Hulk, but fair enough.

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Your last point is kind of why I ask. I'm not fussed about meters, except in the case that you're moving really far, really fast if you can go all the way to extreme range. I was wondering if anyone had given it much thought.

 

Not much thought, but comparing the descriptions "two people can yell at each other at this distance" and using the road outside my office as reference (also in a remote area, so relative quite) and pairing that with weapons (a modern not .50 cal sniper rifle has an expected max effective range around 800-1500 yards, so I assume a blaster sniper rifle is a bit better, but not hugely so) and 0-extreme is about a mile, perhaps a mile and a half.

 

 

It's like using Seven-League Boots. Without magic boots. 

 

Or making Hulk jumps.

 

Or running like Quicksilver. Or Roadrunner. Meep meep.

 

Eh, not quite that bad, and remember that's going short to extreme using 2 maneuvers and an action. So you're burning two strain and blowing the entire round to do it. Doable, but not really sustainable.

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If you have the upgrade that lets you leap a a maneuver, you could potentially Force Leap three times in a round: twice as a maneuver and once as an action.

 

Nope. Per the RAW, you can never take more than two maneuvers in a single round.

The last Force Leap would be a Force Leap Action not a maneuver so completely viable with the rules.

 

 

You're right. My mistake.

 

I'm afraid not. You only ever get two manoeuvres in a turn. The first one is free, the second one can be had by:

1) Paying two strain.

2) Paying two Advantage.

3) Converting your action into a manoeuvre.

 

The only ways to get three manoeuvres is to have the Explorer signature ability, or (I think) this one Force talent that lets you take a third manoeuvre under certain conditions. That's it.

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If you have the upgrade that lets you leap a a maneuver, you could potentially Force Leap three times in a round: twice as a maneuver and once as an action.

 

Nope. Per the RAW, you can never take more than two maneuvers in a single round.

The last Force Leap would be a Force Leap Action not a maneuver so completely viable with the rules.

 

You're right. My mistake.

I'm afraid not. You only ever get two manoeuvres in a turn. The first one is free, the second one can be had by:

1) Paying two strain.

2) Paying two Advantage.

3) Converting your action into a manoeuvre.

 

The only ways to get three manoeuvres is to have the Explorer signature ability, or (I think) this one Force talent that lets you take a third manoeuvre under certain conditions. That's it.

Well no the last one would be moving through a force power Action. Let's say you used the move power on yourself after leaping twice you would still move but this movement expended an action not a third maneuver.

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That is very true.  But I'm not talking about taking three maneuvers.

 

Remember, Force Leap, when you first gain it, is performed as an action.  The final Control upgrade says that you may perform a Force Leap as a maneuver, but it does not required that you use it as a maneuver from that point onward.

 

So what I'm saying is that you take a Force Leap maneuver, suffer 2 strain to take another Force Leap maneuver, then perform a Force Leap action to do it a third time.

 

And it is very easy to perform 2 maneuvers and an action in one turn.  No special talents, Force powers, or signature abilities required.

Edited by Absol197

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Or you can umm do this which is really insane get the seed pods from Nexus of Power.

So now you have 2 free manuvers 1 strain costing maneuver and an action.

 

So you can run once leap twice and finish off with a Hawkbat swoop action.

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That is very true.  But I'm not talking about taking three maneuvers.

 

Remember, Force Leap, when you first gain it, is performed as an action.  The final Control upgrade says that you may perform a Force Leap as a maneuver, but it does not required that you use it as a maneuver from that point onward.

 

So what I'm saying is that you take a Force Leap maneuver, suffer 2 strain to take another Force Leap maneuver, then perform a Force Leap action to do it a third time.

 

And it is very easy to perform 2 maneuvers and an action in one turn.  No special talents, Force powers, or signature abilities required.

Very true. I was just thinking about basic move manoeuvres.

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As for the range bands varying with locale, sure, I'm on board with that, but only within reason. For larger effect and adjustments you would use difficult terrain, which this power arguably ignores. Even some types of impassable terrain is arguably possible with this power.

 

Regarding the comparisons, I never saw the force speed as the equivalent of being a speedster or the Hulk, but fair enough.

 

Bear in mind, though, that long distance force leaps are probably going to require a fair amount of head room. A force user in submarine-cramped conditions (to use an extreme example) probably can only get so much distance by doing a force-enhanced horizontal dive forward, even if there's nothing in the corridor that necessarily constitutes difficult terrain.

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As for the range bands varying with locale, sure, I'm on board with that, but only within reason. For larger effect and adjustments you would use difficult terrain, which this power arguably ignores. Even some types of impassable terrain is arguably possible with this power.

 

Regarding the comparisons, I never saw the force speed as the equivalent of being a speedster or the Hulk, but fair enough.

 

Bear in mind, though, that long distance force leaps are probably going to require a fair amount of head room. A force user in submarine-cramped conditions (to use an extreme example) probably can only get so much distance by doing a force-enhanced horizontal dive forward, even if there's nothing in the corridor that necessarily constitutes difficult terrain.

 

That's only if you literally interpret the effect as a "leap."

 

A number of GMs and players quite likely treat the upgrade as being how to replicate the "Force speed" effect we see Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan use in TPM to get away from those destroyer droids.  Zero vertical or diagonal movement, but plenty of horizontal movement in the opposite direction from those droidekas.

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As for the range bands varying with locale, sure, I'm on board with that, but only within reason. For larger effect and adjustments you would use difficult terrain, which this power arguably ignores. Even some types of impassable terrain is arguably possible with this power.

 

Regarding the comparisons, I never saw the force speed as the equivalent of being a speedster or the Hulk, but fair enough.

 

I dunno, the shot of Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon in Ep 1. blitzing away from the destroyer droids was pretty "speedster" in it's presentation.  They literally moved at a blur, and were gone before you could even really focus on them visually.

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That's only if you literally interpret the effect as a "leap."

 

A number of GMs and players quite likely treat the upgrade as being how to replicate the "Force speed" effect we see Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan use in TPM to get away from those destroyer droids.  Zero vertical or diagonal movement, but plenty of horizontal movement in the opposite direction from those droidekas.

 

 

Fair enough. Even if you run with that narrative description, though, I think a GM is still justified in saying that a force user operating in tight, twisty corridors on a ship can't manage the same kind of absolute distance traveled that they can in an open field, underlining the abstract nature of range bands. A player who insists that because they covered 100 meters in the open in one maneuver, they should be able to do the same on a submarine, is going to get a raised eyebrow.

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