Epic tournament coming up... what to build....

[Wiredin 3,459]

 

 

Gozanti-class Cruiser (40)

Targeting Coordinator (4)

Docking Clamps (0)

Engine Booster (3)

Vector (2)

 

Raider-class Corvette (Fore) (50)

Assault Missiles (5)

Sensor Team (4)

 

Raider-class Corvette (Aft) (50)

Weapons Engineer (3)

Ion Pulse Missiles (3)

Quad Laser Cannons (6)

Gunnery Team (4)

Ordnance Tubes (5)

 

Saber Squadron Pilot (21)

 

Saber Squadron Pilot (21)

 

Saber Squadron Pilot (21)

 

Saber Squadron Pilot (21)

 

"Whisper" (32)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

 

Total: 300

 

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

 

I feel like its a bad idea... good against low PS swarms and thats about it. but it sure loosk fun

 

Wow, that's gutsy. I would be nervous to run that, but the way things interact, there is a chance it could work. You'd have to maneuver to tempt your opponent to split fire between the two huge ships, because one round of firing from 300 points worth of ships is enough to cripple the fore-section of the Raider, or completely remove the Gozanti. Your TIE interceptors are fragile, but I've found that it isn't too hard to choose a place to launch them where they won't take any fire that round. As such, they could do some serious work. It's a little too straightforward for my tastes. I need a little pizzazz in my Epic squad to get me really excited. I'm still trying to tinker with the Imperial huge ships to find a squad I like that uses both.

 

 

I'm finding better synergies with the rebels.. .but thats just due to my experience with them. I've rarely flown imperials... but the chance to field a Raider is way too hard to pass up. Epic's don't happen often, and that ship is just amazing to see in action. I'm sure I'll come across one... 

 

I feel I could build a more competitive fleet with the CR90 or rebel Transport... but I don't know if it would be as much fun. The problem I'm seeing is balancing action economy and energy. You can only take 2 target locks per turn using the crews so does it make sense to run 3 missile tubes? I also think the rebel crew is much more point efficient. Having crit modifiers from other pilots and abilities stacking up is fun too. 

 

CR90 Corvette (Aft) (40)

Weapons Engineer (3)

Quad Laser Cannons (6)

Backup Shield Generator (3)

 

CR90 Corvette (Fore) (50)

Jan Dodonna (6)

Ion Pulse Missiles (3)

Assault Missiles (5)

Gunnery Team (4)

Ordnance Tubes (5)

 

Kanan Jarrus (38)

Accuracy Corrector (3)

Autoblaster Turret (2)

Ghost (0)

 

Sabine Wren (21)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

 

Green Squadron Pilot (19)

Adaptability (0)

Chardaan Refit (-2)

Crack Shot (1)

A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

 

Green Squadron Pilot (19)

Adaptability (0)

Chardaan Refit (-2)

Crack Shot (1)

A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

 

Green Squadron Pilot (19)

Adaptability (0)

Chardaan Refit (-2)

Crack Shot (1)

A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

 

Green Squadron Pilot (19)

Adaptability (0)

Chardaan Refit (-2)

Crack Shot (1)

A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

 

Etahn A'baht (32)

 

Total: 299

 

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

[LagJanson 7,318]

I'm finding better synergies with the rebels.. .but thats just due to my experience with them. I've rarely flown imperials... but the chance to field a Raider is way too hard to pass up. Epic's don't happen often, and that ship is just amazing to see in action. I'm sure I'll come across one... 

 

I feel I could build a more competitive fleet with the CR90 or rebel Transport... but I don't know if it would be as much fun. The problem I'm seeing is balancing action economy and energy. You can only take 2 target locks per turn using the crews so does it make sense to run 3 missile tubes? I also think the rebel crew is much more point efficient. Having crit modifiers from other pilots and abilities stacking up is fun too. 

 

 

 

 

Rebels are all about synergy. Imperials... not so much. Ordnance Tubes really made the Raider potent. Myself, I'm not worried about only having two target locks. Homing missiles are your friends. Don't spend the lock until your last shots from those arcs, or even hold them till next turn. Optimum firing angle allows for FIVE four red attacks on a single target... unmodified, sure, but the homing missiles deny evade tokens and greens fail under that kind of fire. If you've got the points, Ordnance Experts and Gunnery Team provide a quality shot - I tend not to run them though in favour of spreading the points to other ships.

 

Rebel crews do seem to be better. That said, I've been unimpressed by the CR90. Love Rebel fighters, enjoyed the transport a lot, but the CR90.... Just haven't found the right build yet. It's made for long range engagements with the widely space battery arcs. I've yet to see missiles I liked on it.

 

Your list here, I like the fighter escort. The Greens probably aren't a threat, but Etahn at the end catapults them upward. Crackshot the criticals through is a nice trick. Kanan is obviously the big hitter of the escorting force. The CR90 just makes me sad. I feel it does a bit of everything but for the points I would love to see it do more. I like the idea of sensor team, Han Solo, Dash Rendar, turbolaser battery, ion battery and optimized generators. It's untested though - use at own risk.

[Wiredin 3,459]

 

 

Your list here, I like the fighter escort. The Greens probably aren't a threat, but Etahn at the end catapults them upward. Crackshot the criticals through is a nice trick. Kanan is obviously the big hitter of the escorting force. The CR90 just makes me sad. I feel it does a bit of everything but for the points I would love to see it do more. I like the idea of sensor team, Han Solo, Dash Rendar, turbolaser battery, ion battery and optimized generators. It's untested though - use at own risk.

 

 

Totally got the right idea behind that. Also makes it pretty thematic from Rebels I think too.

 

I have so many other fun ideas... but I don't know how viable they would be. CR90, YT2100, YT2400, VCX?

[Astech 1,540]

The raider and Tantive IV are easily countered. Five 4 dice attacks without modifiers could feasibly be shrugged off by Biggs with R4-D6, as an average attack will do 2 hits - 6/8 evades = 10/8 damage. In other words Biggs will only just die with your 5 attacks. For the same ~ 140 points spent on the raider, one could have 4 Dagger squad B-wings with FCS and HLC, plus 15 or so points to spare. That's four 4 die attacks with target lock and probably a focus too and more total health. The Tantive IV is even more under-powered. I strongly believe that the Raider and Tantive IV are near-useless in 1v1 epic, and only come into their own in games of 800+ total points.

 

My current epic list is the following:

 

Biggs Darklighter (25)

R2-F2 (3)

Stealth Device (3)

 

3 x Dagger Squadron Pilot (24)

Fire Control System (2)

 

4 x Green Squadron Pilot (19)

Homing Missiles (5)

Push The Limit (3)

Crack Shot (1)

A-wing Test Pilot (0)

Guidance Chips (0)

 

2 x Warden Squadron Pilot (23)

Proton Bombs (5)

Assault Missiles (5)

Ion Bombs (2)

Extra Munitions (2)

 

Total: 297 Points.

 

I end up with a 10 ship list with a total of 63 hull, a massive Alpha-Strike and decent staying power after that. The idea is to split the list into 3 squadrons: Biggs and the vulnerable B-wings on one flank, A-wings on the other flank, and the K-wings barrel down the center.

 

Biggs and the B-wings will shred swarms, with Biggs at AGI 4 base, it will take a long, long time for 2 die attacks to kill him, while the action-efficient B-wings slowly pop away the filler of the opposing list. Keep in mind that when I say "flank" I mean slightly to the left or right of the center of the board, not way out on the edge where my squads can't help each other.

 

The A-wings have the best Alpha-Strike in the game, trumping KM5Ks with crack shot. Their purpose is to either kill enemy aces such as Soontir Fel and Whisper on the first round of combat, or to put the hurt onto whatever big ships my opponent is bringing. I average 4 hits with each homing missile, so the Raider will be crippled before the first round is done. The A-wings can then use their remaining crack shots to harry any large based ships with low agility.

 

The K-wings tie the list together, potentially being able to to 10 or 15 damage in a turn with the combination of Assault missiles and Proton Bombs. While they can truly bring the pain, their main purpose is to distract my opponent from the real threats on either "flank" and get the to head straight for the center of my formation. So even if they manage to kill both K-wings before they shoot (which I believe they might), they will have ignored my more dangerous late-game targets.

 

This list, like all epic lists, is meant for fun. However, the ability to remove a raider from the board in the first round, or do 30 damage with 2 ships (by firing assault missiles at a huge ship) is unprecedented. Even so, there are some hard counters to this list, which include Defender swarms, interceptor swarms and any PS 4+ alpha strike.

[LagJanson 7,318]

The raider and Tantive IV are easily countered. Five 4 dice attacks without modifiers could feasibly be shrugged off by Biggs with R4-D6, as an average attack will do 2 hits - 6/8 evades = 10/8 damage. In other words Biggs will only just die with your 5 attacks. For the same ~ 140 points spent on the raider, one could have 4 Dagger squad B-wings with FCS and HLC, plus 15 or so points to spare. That's four 4 die attacks with target lock and probably a focus too and more total health. The Tantive IV is even more under-powered. I strongly believe that the Raider and Tantive IV are near-useless in 1v1 epic, and only come into their own in games of 800+ total points.

 

My current epic list is the following:

 

Biggs Darklighter (25)

R2-F2 (3)

Stealth Device (3)

 

3 x Dagger Squadron Pilot (24)

Fire Control System (2)

 

4 x Green Squadron Pilot (19)

Homing Missiles (5)

Push The Limit (3)

Crack Shot (1)

A-wing Test Pilot (0)

Guidance Chips (0)

 

2 x Warden Squadron Pilot (23)

Proton Bombs (5)

Assault Missiles (5)

Ion Bombs (2)

Extra Munitions (2)

 

Total: 297 Points.

 

I end up with a 10 ship list with a total of 63 hull, a massive Alpha-Strike and decent staying power after that. The idea is to split the list into 3 squadrons: Biggs and the vulnerable B-wings on one flank, A-wings on the other flank, and the K-wings barrel down the center.

 

Biggs and the B-wings will shred swarms, with Biggs at AGI 4 base, it will take a long, long time for 2 die attacks to kill him, while the action-efficient B-wings slowly pop away the filler of the opposing list. Keep in mind that when I say "flank" I mean slightly to the left or right of the center of the board, not way out on the edge where my squads can't help each other.

 

The A-wings have the best Alpha-Strike in the game, trumping KM5Ks with crack shot. Their purpose is to either kill enemy aces such as Soontir Fel and Whisper on the first round of combat, or to put the hurt onto whatever big ships my opponent is bringing. I average 4 hits with each homing missile, so the Raider will be crippled before the first round is done. The A-wings can then use their remaining crack shots to harry any large based ships with low agility.

 

The K-wings tie the list together, potentially being able to to 10 or 15 damage in a turn with the combination of Assault missiles and Proton Bombs. While they can truly bring the pain, their main purpose is to distract my opponent from the real threats on either "flank" and get the to head straight for the center of my formation. So even if they manage to kill both K-wings before they shoot (which I believe they might), they will have ignored my more dangerous late-game targets.

 

This list, like all epic lists, is meant for fun. However, the ability to remove a raider from the board in the first round, or do 30 damage with 2 ships (by firing assault missiles at a huge ship) is unprecedented. Even so, there are some hard counters to this list, which include Defender swarms, interceptor swarms and any PS 4+ alpha strike.

A note, Biggs can't decoy out fire from capital ships. They can shoot right at their target anyway. He also can't be used to defend a capital ship so... Meh...

What makes a capital ship dangerous though is not its guns. That's a bonus. It's the ability to boost fighters. Blocked ALL of Parakitor's fighters and the Gozanti gave all of them actions right back. And they can absorb a lot of fire without dropping. Just ask the guys who lined up the four brobots on the easy kill Raider.

Are they points efficient? No. Are they dead weight and not worth bringing out? Heck no. Trick is balancing the points and bringing out the RIGHT escort for the job. There are hard counters, but that's the same as any list in Xwing. Instead of mathing them out, I'd prefer to see you math something useful in.

[Astech 1,540]

While it is true that Biggs can't block large ships, he remains extremely effective for his 31 points against nearly everything else in the game. Brobots with 3 die attacks against a Reinforced Raider will do 8 damage a turn. If the raider then recovers with its other action, it might take 5 or six turns to actually kill it. Howeve,r 4 homing missiles with crack shot + guidance chips will - always - cripple 1 section immediately, barring bizarre dice like 4 blanks. Yes,they are handy. Yes, they have neat tricks. But at the end of the day, you can be assured that I will not bring huge ships to a competitive event. That said, you suggested I "math" something in, so here we go:

 

Raider Class Corvette (fore) (50)

Assault Missiles (5)

Sensor Team (4)

Tibanna Gas Supplies (4)

 

Raider Class Corvette (aft) (50)

Homing Missiles (5)

Homing Missiles (5)

Ordnance Tubes (5)

Mara Jade (3)

Weapons Engineer (3)

 

2 x Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)

Ion Cannon (3)

Ruthlessness (3)

TIE mk II (1)

TIE/D (0)

 

Captain Jonus (22)

Homing Missiles (5)

Extra Munitions (2)

Adaptability (0)

Guidance Chips (0)

 

2 x Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Homing Missiles (5)

Extra Munitions (2)

Crack Shot (0)

Guidance Chips (0)

 

Total: 299 points.

 

All up, its a 6 ship list at 300 points, so you're no bringing much health to the table. What is brought, however, is a fantastic alpha-strike (with jonus granting re-rolls to the Glaives, Gamma Squad Vets and the raider. The raider itself is as stripped down as I could make it while still keeping it a mild threat. I gave it Mara Jade to utterly stress the opposition, and it should be launching 3 missiles per turn plus a primary attack. Tibanna gas supplies makes your first recover action much more potent. The Glaives with ruthlessness with annihilate low agility opposition, doing up to 6 damage a turn, each, at range 3. Jonus and the bombers should wait in the wings until they've all spent their homing missiles, then rush in to block enemy aces.

 

Overall, you get a decent list, but the question is, would you rather 3 more of those glaives, plus cluster missiles on the bombers over the raider. No matter which way I slice it, the Raider doesn't compare favourably to numerous small ships.

Captain Jonus (22)

Homing Missiles (5)

Extra Munitions (2)

Adaptability (0)

Guidance Chips (0)

[LagJanson 7,318]

Me personally, I would never take more Defenders. My green dice get annoying when they come in threes. They get brave and abandon me.

I also won't deny you that Biggs is very useful even in an epic setting. I'd be insane or stupid to try. Misinterpreted what your intent was with him in your first post.

True the big ships don't compare favourably to massive swarms, but not everybody flies swarms. information is good, just didn't want to stomp on anybody's fun. CR90 is a bugger at 300 point epic, I agree. Raider just barely feels like it might fit, but then my escort tends to number ten or eleven fighters at low PS to block the opposing ships. I find it works pretty good allowing the Raider time to unload for a few rounds. I guess that puts me near enough your thoughts on numbers, though not quite on an equal footing in quality.

Thanks for humouring me, Astech, I would never insist you fly anything in a tournament or elsewhere.

[Wiredin 3,459]

It comes down to what is more fun I think. Sure it's a competitive event, but I don't go in it to win it. I go in it to have fun. For me I spent money on my Raider and my Cr90, I wanna use them! That being said, I've gotten a lot out of the upgrade cards that have come with them.

 

The more I think about it the more I'm wanting to run my CR90 list I posted earlier with the A wing squad and the Ghost. Or a CR90, VCX, YT13, YT24 list.... 

[LagJanson 7,318]

It comes down to what is more fun I think. Sure it's a competitive event, but I don't go in it to win it. I go in it to have fun. For me I spent money on my Raider and my Cr90, I wanna use them! That being said, I've gotten a lot out of the upgrade cards that have come with them.

 

The more I think about it the more I'm wanting to run my CR90 list I posted earlier with the A wing squad and the Ghost. Or a CR90, VCX, YT13, YT24 list....

Of the two, I would take your CR90 list with the Awings. Less than six ships and you run a huge risk against swarms.

Your CR90, what are you picturing as the role? Dodonna looks under utilized in your list as it would seem only Kanan might run alongside at range one. Can I suggest Solo crew and spend four points elsewhere? Comms Booster or improve another ship?

[Wiredin 3,459]

The raider and Tantive IV are easily countered. Five 4 dice attacks without modifiers could feasibly be shrugged off by Biggs with R4-D6, as an average attack will do 2 hits - 6/8 evades = 10/8 damage. In other words Biggs will only just die with your 5 attacks. For the same ~ 140 points spent on the raider, one could have 4 Dagger squad B-wings with FCS and HLC, plus 15 or so points to spare. That's four 4 die attacks with target lock and probably a focus too and more total health. The Tantive IV is even more under-powered. I strongly believe that the Raider and Tantive IV are near-useless in 1v1 epic, and only come into their own in games of 800+ total points.

 

My current epic list is the following:

 

Biggs Darklighter (25)

R2-F2 (3)

Stealth Device (3)

 

3 x Dagger Squadron Pilot (24)

Fire Control System (2)

 

4 x Green Squadron Pilot (19)

Homing Missiles (5)

Push The Limit (3)

Crack Shot (1)

A-wing Test Pilot (0)

Guidance Chips (0)

 

2 x Warden Squadron Pilot (23)

Proton Bombs (5)

Assault Missiles (5)

Ion Bombs (2)

Extra Munitions (2)

 

Total: 297 Points.

 

I end up with a 10 ship list with a total of 63 hull, a massive Alpha-Strike and decent staying power after that. The idea is to split the list into 3 squadrons: Biggs and the vulnerable B-wings on one flank, A-wings on the other flank, and the K-wings barrel down the center.

 

Biggs and the B-wings will shred swarms, with Biggs at AGI 4 base, it will take a long, long time for 2 die attacks to kill him, while the action-efficient B-wings slowly pop away the filler of the opposing list. Keep in mind that when I say "flank" I mean slightly to the left or right of the center of the board, not way out on the edge where my squads can't help each other.

 

The A-wings have the best Alpha-Strike in the game, trumping KM5Ks with crack shot. Their purpose is to either kill enemy aces such as Soontir Fel and Whisper on the first round of combat, or to put the hurt onto whatever big ships my opponent is bringing. I average 4 hits with each homing missile, so the Raider will be crippled before the first round is done. The A-wings can then use their remaining crack shots to harry any large based ships with low agility.

 

The K-wings tie the list together, potentially being able to to 10 or 15 damage in a turn with the combination of Assault missiles and Proton Bombs. While they can truly bring the pain, their main purpose is to distract my opponent from the real threats on either "flank" and get the to head straight for the center of my formation. So even if they manage to kill both K-wings before they shoot (which I believe they might), they will have ignored my more dangerous late-game targets.

 

This list, like all epic lists, is meant for fun. However, the ability to remove a raider from the board in the first round, or do 30 damage with 2 ships (by firing assault missiles at a huge ship) is unprecedented. Even so, there are some hard counters to this list, which include Defender swarms, interceptor swarms and any PS 4+ alpha strike.

 

 

Thats a great looking list and could be a lot of fun. My tournament requires one epic ship on each side however... would it still have the effect if the Wardens were dropped?

[LagJanson 7,318]

Yes. Yes it would. Those homing missiles are deadly and the Bwings still bring a load of pain. As Astech noted, their primary purpose is distraction. A deadly distraction, sure, but decoy. Guess what role capital ships excel at? Drawing attention and fire.

Edited August 13, 2016 by LagJanson

[Astech 1,540]

Well said LagJanson, huge ships can serve as a very effective distraction when properly equipped. The rebel transport and Gozanti are the best equipped to do so, due to their low squad point cost. Here's my take on a replacement for the 2 K-wings above with a rebel transport:

 

Rebel Transport (30)

Slicer Tools (7)

Toryn Farr (6)

Automated Protocols (5)

Quantum Storm (4)

Tibanna Gas Supplies (4)

Ionisation Reactor (4)

Chewbacca (4)

 

Total: 64 points.

 

The idea is that you have a range 3-2-1 protection bubble. At range 3 slicer tools threatens enemy aces/ stress economy ships with unblockable damage. At range 2 you have Toryn Farr, who can strip all ordinance lists of their Oomph, while severely deterring aces from approaching. At range 1 the ionisation reactor provides a truly devastating hit that will leave swarms and enemy aces alike in tatters. Tibanna gas supplies and Quantum Storm allow you to keep your threat level higher for longer. Chewbacca is a durability upgrade, raising you to 14 total health. Automated protocols makes use of your excess energy to provide durability in the long run. Overall, this ship is designed to be flown straight into an enemy swarm, not caring about taking damage. You lose some long range power by sacrificing the assault missiles, but by the time your opponent reaches range 2, its all over.

 

Gozanti (40)

Slicer Tools (7)

Suppressor (6)

Ordnance Tubes (5)

Cluster Missiles (4)

Sensor Team (4)

Ionisation Reactor (4)

Weapons Engineer (3)

Mara Jade 3)

 

Total: 76 points.

 

Twelve points more expensive than the transport build above, but you bring something entirely different to the table. This gozanti truly loves range 1, as the combination of ionisation reactor and Mara Jade will leave your opponent utterly stranded. During the next turn, you can use slicer tools to shred the stressed targets around you. Cluster missiles are a bit of gentle discouragement from entering range 1-2, but are a bit of an afterthought. Sensor team allows you to target lock at long range and stuff up your opponents ordinance on either flank using Suppressor, as well as enabling your cluster missiles with the second lock provided by weapons engineer. Overall, I prefer the transport, because at 300 points a 64 point ship can be a valid distraction, however a 76 point ship i slightly more than a quarter of your squad, so you'll want to keep it alive with the reinforce and recover actions when you can.