magicrealm

Runewars Miniatures Game end of Battlelore?

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In my opinion they should never resign from printing Rune Age. This game has all properieties of evergreen title. With expansion there is great replayability, a ton of game modes and 6 factions, each with unique style of play. Unfortunately FFG drifts more and more into living game territory and license products.

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1 hour ago, Embir82 said:

In my opinion they should never resign from printing Rune Age. This game has all properieties of evergreen title. With expansion there is great replayability, a ton of game modes and 6 factions, each with unique style of play. Unfortunately FFG drifts more and more into living game territory and license products.

I agree. It's a fantastic title that doesn't get enough attention.

I kind of hope that they print a legacy box in the future that has all 6 scenarios and all 6 factions in one box.

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Yes, Runeage is the best deckbuilding game ever! A bit complicated (compared with dominion), but really great. What a pity

Edited by Mozal
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I'm considering buying BattleLore.

Is it worth it since it's possibly dead?

I've already gotten other commands and colors games like BattleLore 1st edition and Memoir '44. Is this a worthy addition to my collection?

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BattleLore 2nd edition plays very differently from the 1st. It still has command cards and lore cards. You still play a command cards to order units based on type or section and possibly a lore card to enhance your action, but similarities end here. In 2nd edition you have:

  • strongly asymmetric armies: each faction has specific units with specific traits and powers,
  • victory points are not based on eliminated units but rather by fulfilling scenario specific conditions,
  • armies are freely designed by players using a cost point system,
  • simplified lore management, but faction specific lore cards.

If you can grab the base box at a reasonable price I'd suggest to try it.

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I concur with g1ul10.  BatleLore is a very good game. And while I'm moving on to Runewars: Miniatures Game, there are aspects* of BattleLore that you don't get with Runewars, so I'll be keeping both games. 

*One of those aspects is the retreat mechanic. It means that units don't stay locked in combat forever, leading to a game where movement is more fluid and positions are always changing. The other aspect that comes to mind is the lore cards. Being able to play "magic" cards during your opponent's turn to surprise them gives it a very different feel from something like Runewars MG where the only hidden information is on the command tools, but all cards and "tricks" are available for both opponents to see.

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On 5/25/2017 at 3:38 PM, Budgernaut said:

I concur with g1ul10.  BatleLore is a very good game. And while I'm moving on to Runewars: Miniatures Game, there are aspects* of BattleLore that you don't get with Runewars, so I'll be keeping both games. 

*One of those aspects is the retreat mechanic. It means that units don't stay locked in combat forever, leading to a game where movement is more fluid and positions are always changing. The other aspect that comes to mind is the lore cards. Being able to play "magic" cards during your opponent's turn to surprise them gives it a very different feel from something like Runewars MG where the only hidden information is on the command tools, but all cards and "tricks" are available for both opponents to see.

Man, that woulda been so cool.  Some lore card type system in RMG with the wizard figures acting as conduits for that stuff.  The cards could function off the runes... no idea if it would be better, but I bet you could do it and have it be at least entertaining for a while.

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I notice that Battlelore is the board game I 've played most these last few years. Sad that they 're keeping it in Limbo instead of killing it off, as it takes quite a lot of mental energy from a lot of players waiting for news every once in a while, those few left that is. Not that such news would make me move to Runewars, good luck with that.

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6 hours ago, Skyhunterd said:

I notice that Battlelore is the board game I 've played most these last few years.

That is so awesome! I wish I could say the same. For me, it's been Rune Age because of the quick set-up and take-down.

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With a little more perspective than a year ago and having a lot of Runewars Minis time under my belt, I've really been wondering how this game failed in the market.

When it first came out, I loved it so much that I bought a second copy and got every gamer I knew to try it at least once. But I never persuaded a single person to buy it, nor encountered anyone else who was a fan, nor was ever asked by any of my friends to play it, although a couple have been happy to play and enjoyed it when I've asked them. So, I gave up on it, sold my second copy, and never bothered to pick up the expansions until just this holiday sale when they were like 60% off.

Why didn't people get into it? I have some guesses, although nothing backed up by data.

First, the market for head to head, highly competitive games is limited and the market is saturated with these types of games already. Justlook at Magic and L5R and 40k, and X-Wing. Yep, the popularity of these games suggests a big market, but the point is that competitive types already have so many options.

Another thing these games have in common is collectability and customization. You get to build your deck or collection of ships or your army. In BL, you just get what's in the box and while the expansions offered some opportunity to collect, I think the general feel is still that two players have access to everything in the box, and it doesn't feel personalized or unique.

Cost of entry is also very high. Compare the retail of BL2 to X-Wing or MtG. You can get the basic game and a bunch of expansions before you get to the cost of the BL2 core box. And then at retail the BL2 expansions were $35. When you compare that to other board games, it doesn't sound excessive, but usually other board games accommodate more than 2 players, which makes the value somewhat better.

it's also kind of a bummer to tell your third friend they can't play tonight because you're playing a two player game only. I know, the other head to head games have the same problem. The thing is that BL2 takes much longer to set up and play, so it's hard to just wait a round if you're the odd player. While 40k takes a much longer time to play, at least you can easily play 2:1 if you have an odd number of players.

I also wonder if BattleLore Command out competed the board game. In a lot of ways, BL2 is better suited as a video game than a table too game and I wonder if potential tabletop gamers just opted for the video version instead.

I also wonder whether the Terrinoth setting is commercially attractive. Having now played a ton of Descent, Runewars minis, and some BattleLore, I have to say that I have never heard the background or aesthetic of the game listed as a primary reason for playing. In fact, I regularly hear it as a reason for not playing. I personally like it, but I don't love it. By contrast, look at 40k: it's an utter crap rule system and game play is tedious and even a bit bizarre when compared to pretty much any other game on the market, but GW absolutely slays it when it comes to miniatures design and background. A fact they even admitted themselves a couple years ago in the now infamous statement that they are not a game company but a miniatures company and that most of their minis aren't collected by gamers, and of those purchased by gamers, many still never see the table top... And they're right. I doubt very many will be collecting BL2 or for that matter Runewars "just to have the minis". 

As far as the original question, will Runewars Minis mean the end of BL2? Well, a year and a months later we can say that the line hasn't been continued and looks like it won't be. From a market perspective, they probably would have continued if it was profitable, but my guess is that for the aforementioned reasons, it wasn't profitable in its own right. The main reasons Runewars minis would ever impact BL2 would be if it created too much competition or if FFG simply didn't have the capacity to produce both. My guess, totally unsubstantiated, is that BL2 and RWM have a synergistic relationship: purchasing one would encourage a person to purchase the other. Clearly FFG has had the capacity in the last year to release a ton of new products and some entirely new lines. So my guess is that if BL2 had been commercially viable, it probably wouldn't have been killed by RWM, but might still get killed by other lines with higher anticipated return on investment, like L5R, Android, Destiny, and the new Star Wars minis game.

Edited by Elliphino

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@Elliphino Interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing in such detail.

On 11/23/2017 at 11:06 PM, Elliphino said:

Another thing these games have in common is collectability and customization. You get to build your deck or collection of ships or your army. In BL, you just get what's in the box and while the expansions offered some opportunity to collect, I think the general feel is still that two players have access to everything in the box, and it doesn't feel personalized or unique.

From my perspective, this is a huge plus that BattleLore has over Runewars Miniatures Game. In Runewars, there are some janky lists I'd like to try (8x 2-tray Berserkers each with Serrated Spines and Blood Rage Conduit), but they are prohibitively expensive. But the model invites you to invest heavily into your army. After playing Star Wars LCG and X-Wing, it was refreshing to play a game that was self-contained. Sure, I could buy a second core for a second Chaos Lord, but it just felt right to only have one of each expansion. I felt that I had a lot of replayability with just the core, and the expansions only added to that.

On 11/23/2017 at 11:06 PM, Elliphino said:

I also wonder if BattleLore Command out competed the board game. In a lot of ways, BL2 is better suited as a video game than a table too game and I wonder if potential tabletop gamers just opted for the video version instead.

I think we agree that BattleLore: Command was overall a bad idea. However, I disagree that BL2 is better suited to a video game. If I were to put that game as a video game, I would do a lot of things drastically different. Many of the choices they made in BattleLore: Command stemmed from the fact that they were trying to stay somewhat true to the boardgame, but it just came off really weird. Balance was also a serious issue in the app. My gut says that BattleLore: Command was meant to get more people interested in the board game, but it was such a lackluster experience that nobody who played it felt any interest at buying the tabletop game.

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Also, I'm one of those weirdos who only had interest in BattleLore and Runewars Miniatures Game because I fell in love with Rune Age and then Runewars. Rune Age was a great card game that introduced me to the Terrinoth factions. Runewars gave me the excitement of building an army, controlling territory, and hiring heroes - all in the world I had come to love in Rune Age. When BattleLore came around, I was so excited to start playing single battles of Uthuk vs. Daqan on my tabletop. Any other setting and I probably would not have been so excited.

Then along came Runewars MG. I had to buy in because I could finally get elves! But I also looked at the cost of expansions and thought, "FFG is pricing this for the long run. It doesn't look like they'll let it die too quickly." I had also looked at Warhammer and other miniatures games for years, thinking that I wanted yo try building an army like that, but I couldn't get excited about the theme for any of them. Runewars MG came along and I was stoked. There isn't another IP out there that I would be more excited to play as a miniatures game!

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On 11/25/2017 at 7:11 PM, Budgernaut said:

After playing Star Wars LCG and X-Wing, it was refreshing to play a game that was self-contained. Sure, I could buy a second core for a second Chaos Lord, but it just felt right to only have one of each expansion. I felt that I had a lot of replayability with just the core, and the expansions only added to that.

 

I agree. That's why I think this RWM is complimentary to BattleLore, rather than a substitue. Players who like the world will find a lot of similarities with RWM and I think would be encouraged to buy both... but without market data that's just my speculation.

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On 11/26/2017 at 7:47 AM, Budgernaut said:

Also, I'm one of those weirdos who only had interest in BattleLore and Runewars Miniatures Game because I fell in love with Rune Age and then Runewars.

Well, there's one who loves it for the aesthetics and lore! Actually, I do too, but I'm not sure if I would unless I had played a ton of Descent. It's highly stylized and some will love it, and some will not.

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On 27/11/2017 at 9:16 PM, Elliphino said:

I agree. That's why I think this RWM is complimentary to BattleLore, rather than a substitue. Players who like the world will find a lot of similarities with RWM and I think would be encouraged to buy both... but without market data that's just my speculation.

If RWM wasn't intended as a substitute for battlelore FFG would have given us elves.

RWM seems to be doing really bad in the UK. I just bought 2 core sets for £35 each. Sales seem to be happening all over the place.

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1 hour ago, mulletcheese said:

If RWM wasn't intended as a substitute for battlelore FFG would have given us elves.

That's false logic. If BattleLore was doing poor enough, FFG would not have given us elves EVEN IF Runewars Miniatures didn't exist. The lack of elves neither proves nor disproves the assertion that Runewars Miniatures Game was meant to replace BattleLore Second Edition.

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