Ackbar and the MC-80 Liberty class

[Englishpete 1,379]

This is a list I am keen to try with the new wave 4. I've tried to make it command neutral with the advent of Slicer Tools. The MC-80 is a very mean gunship as is the Neb.

 

Ackbar makes approaching the sides of the MC-80 as dangerous as the front and that makes for a great area control ship.

 

Ackbar Gunships   

Faction: Rebel Alliance 
Points: 396/400 

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Most Wanted 
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault 
Navigation Objective: Minefields 

 

[ flagship ] MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
-  Admiral Ackbar  ( 38  points) 
-  Mon Karren  ( 8  points) 
-  Raymus Antilles  ( 7  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Nav Team  ( 4  points) 
-  Enhanced Armament  ( 10  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  SW 7 Ion Batteries  ( 5  points) 
= 188 total ship cost

 

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Bright Hope  ( 2  points) 
-  Slicer Tools  ( 7  points) 
= 27 total ship cost

 

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 points)
-  Spinal Armament  ( 9  points) 
= 60 total ship cost

 

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
-  Jainas Light  ( 2  points) 
-  Leia Organa  ( 3  points) 
-  Turbolaser Reroute Circuits  ( 7  points) 
= 56 total ship cost

 

5 X-Wing Squadrons ( 65 points) 

[Drasnighta 26,833]

I mean, it works, the only issue is, is it counter-productive to spend 38 points on Ackbar for what is, essentially, Insurance.

 

Especially since the other ships in your fleet aren't even gaining his benefit to perform their standard rolls, either...

 

I think I can stomach Ackbar in a fleet with a Liberty, when your other ships are at least intending to use him every turn, and he's just a point of insurance for the liberty itself...

 

Because choosing to actively forgo the front arc...  That's a big, ballsy call.   Both on the Liberty and the Nebulon...

 

He's 38 points...  You're already dropping 10 in Enhanced Armaments...  You already hav Gunnery Team...

How often do you forsee being able to Ackbar Slash with those Side Arcs, WITHOUT having an enemy or two in the Front Arc?

 

Its interesting, I'd like to see it played, but in my head, its just saying "Go a little bit slower, dont' expose your sides, and GT out the front twice instead, taking any other Officer for cheaper..."
 

[Englishpete 1,379]

You do raise an excellent question Dras', one I have asked myself. Recently though, I have been playing with Nebulons using Ackbar and it's been very eye opening in its effectiveness.

 

Time will tell on the overall viability, but I think it is well worth a test or two.

[Drasnighta 26,833]

I only raise the question as someone who has tried it on Nebulons in the past, and found that exposing the Sides to potential counterattacks (Not everything will get to shoot and move out of range, even with activation bonuses) weren't worth th eprice of entry, when simply focusing on the narrow-front arc and trying to jump the enemy at the opportune time was more survivable...

 

If it works on the Liberty, more power to you!

But I guess my statement kind of falls on the side of:

"My experience says it doesn't work on a Single Nebulon...  It mechanically can't work on Flotillas who have no broadside dice, ergo, it has to work for your liberty, which is half of your list, and even then, its for insurance only..."

 

[mobow213 133]

Would love to see ackbar updated to say oppiste fire arcs vs side arcs. So you can ackbar out the front and rear

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

Would love to see ackbar updated to say oppiste fire arcs vs side arcs. So you can ackbar out the front and rear

They will never do this. You can now add two reds to a liberty or a salvation? No thanks

[mobow213 133]

Would love to see ackbar updated to say oppiste fire arcs vs side arcs. So you can ackbar out the front and rear

They will never do this. You can now add two reds to a liberty or a salvation? No thanks

Adding two red to liberty front arc for giving up a double arc shot, is the same as home one giving up its front arc for side

[Drasnighta 26,833]

 

 

Would love to see ackbar updated to say oppiste fire arcs vs side arcs. So you can ackbar out the front and rear

They will never do this. You can now add two reds to a liberty or a salvation? No thanks

Adding two red to liberty front arc for giving up a double arc shot, is the same as home one giving up its front arc for side

 

 

Except the Liberty can take Gunnery Teams, and still shoot twice out of its Front Arc...

 

The MC80 Home one explicitly cannot do that.

 

...  

 

And comparing to the AFMK-II is not an option, because its capability in comparison is lacklustre with the lacks of blues, or an Ion cannon to fuel the shenanigans that a Gunnery-Team MC80 can and would...

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

Would love to see ackbar updated to say oppiste fire arcs vs side arcs. So you can ackbar out the front and rear

They will never do this. You can now add two reds to a liberty or a salvation? No thanks

Adding two red to liberty front arc for giving up a double arc shot, is the same as home one giving up its front arc for side

In addition to Dras's points above, it would be of HUGE benefit to the liberty to be able to avoid double arcing with no drop in firepower, as the side arcs are very weak and vulnerable if left open to counterattack

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

Time to try my hand at necromancy. . .

 

So, I recently ran an Ackbar Liberty Fleet:

Ackbar Liberty - Flown Once
Author: ForceGhostofNobodyInParticular

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 398/400  

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

[ flagship ] MC80 Assault Cruiser (114 points)

-  Admiral Ackbar  ( 38  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
-  Reinforced Blast Doors  ( 5  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  High-Capacity Ion Turbines  ( 8  points) 
= 178 total ship cost

MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)

-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  XX-9 Turbolasers  ( 5  points) 
-  High-Capacity Ion Turbines  ( 8  points) 
= 122 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)

= 18 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)

= 18 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)

= 18 total ship cost

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points) 
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points) 
1 A-Wing Squadron ( 11 points) 

Card view link

 

And I was wondering if people have had any success with these, and if so what builds they flew. The one above gained me a victory, but I owe that more to navigation/judgement errors on my opponent's side. He ended up ramming his ISD into my Liberty front-to-front for 4 turns, within blue range of my Home One (which circled to the ISD's right), whilst I spammed Repair Commands and he spammed CFs. . . I even took out two raiders (to the left of the ISD) with GT shots on turns 4 & 6. . . and he chose Advanced Gunnery. . .

So I can't yet judge the fleet's performance. How have others flown similar fleets? How would others fly this one? What would they change?

 

Thanks in advance for your responses!

 

Edit: Actually, this version is slightly different from the one I flew - that one had 1 more A-Wing, but I can't figure out what I did without to fit it in. . . I unfortunately didn't record the list (or if I have I missed placed it), so the one above will have to suffice.

Edited July 12, 2017 by ForceGhostofNobodyInParticular

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

Maybe this:

Ackbar Liberty - Flown Once V3 
Author: ForceGhostofNobodyInParticular

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 400/400  

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

[ flagship ] MC80 Assault Cruiser (114 points)

-  Admiral Ackbar  ( 38  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
-  Reinforced Blast Doors  ( 5  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
= 170 total ship cost

MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)

-  Endeavor  ( 4  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  High-Capacity Ion Turbines  ( 8  points) 
= 121 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)

= 18 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)

= 18 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
= 18 total ship cost

 

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points) 
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points) 
2 A-Wing Squadrons ( 22 points) 

Card view link

is what I flew. . . anyways, this is irrelevant to the main question, which is how have people flown Ackbar Liberty lists?

[Vergilius 2,118]

Ackbar and the Liberty just run completely opposite of each other.  Ackbar wants a really big broad arc that gets powered up.  The Liberty wants to take front arc shots with GT.  In those circumstances where you have clear side arc shots, you primarily would want to double arc, and with Ackbar, you're not double-arcing.  So generally speaking, you don't want to mix the two because you're creating a major inefficiency in your list.

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

I agree with Vergilius, but his objections aside, I think you're throwing away the best synergy between the two big ships by not bringing QTT on the Star Cruiser and Home One on the Assault Cruiser.

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

Thanks for the input! Ard, do you mean Quad Turbolaser Cannons? I don't see how QTTs and HO work together. If so, that's 17 points. What do you suggest removing to fit it? Shara?

 

Also: I realize that it's better to play to  ship's strengths rather than trying to improve it's weaknesses, but as everybody tries to flank the Liberty anyway, I figured it would be a good idea to provide a deterrent. 7 dice from the front, and 6 from the sides mean I don't have to worry too much about navigating, and GT means double-arcs are't worthwhile either. I have so far run the Liberty with Madine, Ackbar, and Dodonna.

In the battle with Madine (Liberty and 2 Dolphins), he didn't manage to get to the fight in time, because of the way my opponent deployed his ships, and I ended up losing the battle. In the Dodonna one (which was similar to the above), it took on a similar build to the one I fought with Madine. It managed to win the battle, but the Interdictor flagship was hardly touched. The Ackbar one went as described above.

So my experience with it has been kinda limited, and yet I like the idea of two massive ships backing each other up, so I decided to ask the forum how else they have done so. Do you guys mean that it's generally frowned upon to do this? I got the idea from Ackbar Nebs, since while sure, they have a large side arc, it also doesn't play to they're strengths.

[Vergilius 2,118]

2 hours ago, ForceGhostofNobodyInParticular said:

So my experience with it has been kinda limited, and yet I like the idea of two massive ships backing each other up, so I decided to ask the forum how else they have done so. Do you guys mean that it's generally frowned upon to do this? I got the idea from Ackbar Nebs, since while sure, they have a large side arc, it also doesn't play to they're strengths.

For two big ships backing each other up, Garm.  Generally the problem is that you get so much of a point investiture in the two ships that a smaller more nimble fleet can focus one of them down.  Garm+Projection Experts aims to keep the one being focused down alive until the combined firepower takes out some of the MSU.

From what you describe in personal experience, placement at the start of the game is the biggest problem.  That's not something you can fix by changing up the list, because every list still needs to be placed well.  So if the Interdictor wasn't touched in those games, could you have gotten more shots by bringing the Liberty closer to the point of engagement in the start of the game?  Usually there is some combination of using your objectives well as second player or deploying centrally as first player that can keep your ships in range of your opponent.  From there, it is a matter of picking angles, speeds, and maneuvering well.

Ackbar Nebs are really the same problem.  If you fly it well, then you've got 38 points in the list that aren't adding to the Nebulon-B.  But then 38 points is a high premium to pay for "If I don't fly this well, I'll still get 3 dice out of the side."  

[Tokra 2,147]

On 15.8.2016 at 0:36 AM, mobow213 said:

Would love to see ackbar updated to say oppiste fire arcs vs side arcs. So you can ackbar out the front and rear

And see a list of 15 GR75 Combat refit? no Thanks

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

4 hours ago, Vergilius said:

For two big ships backing each other up, Garm.  Generally the problem is that you get so much of a point investiture in the two ships that a smaller more nimble fleet can focus one of them down.  Garm+Projection Experts aims to keep the one being focused down alive until the combined firepower takes out some of the MSU.

I shall try that out. I felt the benefit of Ackbar was that, because he was red dice, those small ships would be in range of my ships, and the Liberty could handle 2 of them at a time from any of three directions. 

4 hours ago, Vergilius said:

From what you describe in personal experience, placement at the start of the game is the biggest problem.  That's not something you can fix by changing up the list, because every list still needs to be placed well.  So if the Interdictor wasn't touched in those games, could you have gotten more shots by bringing the Liberty closer to the point of engagement in the start of the game?  Usually there is some combination of using your objectives well as second player or deploying centrally as first player that can keep your ships in range of your opponent.  From there, it is a matter of picking angles, speeds, and maneuvering well.

The Interdictor was deployed on the border of the set-up area, and headed away from the center, whilst it was proceeded by 2 Glads under the Targeting Scrambler blanket. Trying to take out the GSDs got my dolphins killed. I kept the Liberty further out (it was deployed in the center) for fear of losing it to the GSDs. I believe I was 1st player that game. The second game the Interdictor did largely the same thing, but was only saved 'cause my large ships were occupied taking out the Raiders first, and because it had spammed Engineering Commands, so in that game deployment wasn't too much of an issue.

I'm still only decent at deploying, and I know that that wouldn't be fixed with a change of list. I was just trying to get other ideas, and as I intend to run the list again, I was looking for ways of improving it. 

4 hours ago, Vergilius said:

Ackbar Nebs are really the same problem.  If you fly it well, then you've got 38 points in the list that aren't adding to the Nebulon-B.  But then 38 points is a high premium to pay for "If I don't fly this well, I'll still get 3 dice out of the side."  

And yet @Crabbok wrote an article about doing so intentionally, and to be used with Ackbar in mind, not as a back up. I wondered if a similar concept was used with Liberties.

 

Thanks, once more, for your input.

[Vergilius 2,118]

1 hour ago, ForceGhostofNobodyInParticular said:

 

And yet @Crabbok wrote an article about doing so intentionally, and to be used with Ackbar in mind, not as a back up. I wondered if a similar concept was used with Liberties.

Got a link?

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

9 minutes ago, Vergilius said:

Got a link?

I was his Contest Submission: Crabbok's Article. I'm pretty sure the gist was advocating Ackbar Nebs as a new and wacky tactic.

[Vergilius 2,118]

3 minutes ago, ForceGhostofNobodyInParticular said:

I was his Contest Submission: Crabbok's Article. I'm pretty sure the gist was advocating Ackbar Nebs as a new and wacky tactic.

I had a guy locally that tried that several times about a year ago.  I was never really impressed with how the lists did.  Some of that may have been his flying.  I mean if it is causal game night and one really wants to try something wacky, then by all means go for it.  In casual game nights, you'll get the good match-up and win and the bad match-up and lose some of the time.  It just isn't something I'd expect to be seriously good.

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

35 minutes ago, Vergilius said:

I had a guy locally that tried that several times about a year ago.  I was never really impressed with how the lists did.  Some of that may have been his flying.  I mean if it is causal game night and one really wants to try something wacky, then by all means go for it.  In casual game nights, you'll get the good match-up and win and the bad match-up and lose some of the time.  It just isn't something I'd expect to be seriously good.

I see. Thanks though, for your thoughts.