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IceQube MkII

Does anyone wish that this could have been Star Wars?

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Well AoS is new so they have to release stuff to get it started. I don't play it so i can't say anything about the books but at least they are moving the story forward with their campaign books soemthing that wasn't really happening in WHF and 40K.

 

And about their licence i don't know what they're up to, so many app company gets a licence to produce bad games and on the other hand they apparently ended their licence with FFG with did produce really good games.

 

While we don't have any confirmation of the FFG-GW partnership ending, I do feel it's safe to assume that with the announcement of RuneWars Miniatures. But I don't think it's "Geedub doing a stupid decision to end the license" like you propose. I think it's both parties agreeing that they reached a point in which partnership was no longer 100% beneficial to either. Back when the partnership started, Geedub was doing miniatures and FFG was doing boardgames and the line between the two areas of "jurisdiction" was visibly marked. Fast forward a few years and you can clearly see that both companies now want a piece of each other's pie, what with GW redoing their most prominent dungeoncrawl boardgame and FFG doing a rank-and-flank miniature game.

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i dont care about another SW game

btw. warhammer is not a story its seting, so why trying to push it forward ?

Runewars look great thumbs up

 

Every setting has one or more plot stories, for AoS it is the reclamation ot the Mortal Realms through Sigmar's Stormcast Eternals but for 40K and the old WHF the story/time was always around the 13th Black Crusade/Storm of Chaos, they even ran a worldwide campaign for 40K to decide the Black Crusade but as far as i know they were not happy with the outcome so they modified it and later reset time to the start of the 13th Black Crusade, and at least for now in AoS the time moves on.

 

 

@Don_Silvarro

 

I didn't want to imply it was a dumb decision, just one that makes me sad because i think GW will never sell games without miniatures and i really like FFGs Blood Bowl game, yes i know GW will rerelease Blood Bowl soon and i will probably buy it but i will still paly both games because they are different and have different audiences. And i'm interested in the 40K Conquest game, so i wonder do i have to buy it now or do i have some time.

And i don't see this and AoS as direct competitors, they're quite different in my opninion.

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I'm happy that is not Star Wars. I hope it will feel like a modern version of WFB. I also hope the will be a few factions, campaign expansions and maybe novels which introduce some background stories.

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God no!  Enough with the Star Wars already.  I'd much rather have a minis game with proper factions which the 2-sided conflict in SW doesn't really allow for.  At least this game looks like it will eventually have 4-6 factions so you can choose a side in an meaningful way.

 

Besides, I'm sure later on they'll make a Star Wars Ground Assault game based on the same rules system if their license allows for it.

 

Anyway, I hope we see some demo videos go up today with more info so we can get a better idea of how the system works.  I think there's a lot of potential, just too many open questions at this point to really know what it's like.

 

Also, while I get that Terrinoth already existed, I don't know anything about it and I feel most other people don't either which makes it seem a lot like just a generic fantasy.  FFG really needs to work on that if they want to suck more people into the game.  Convince us that this is a cool world with cool factions because right now you seem to have boring generic humans vs. boring generic undead.  What makes your guys interesting?  Do your evil factions exist as more than just caricatures?  What is each sides history, agenda, and so on?  When are more factions coming and what are their stories?  Because right now they're just generic elves and generic evil faction #2.

 

If you want the game to take off, you need to educate people and convince them that this is a vibrant interesting world so we can all find a faction we can be attached to.

Edited by dboeren

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God no!  Enough with the Star Wars already.  I'd much rather have a minis game with proper factions which the 2-sided conflict in SW doesn't really allow for.  At least this game looks like it will eventually have 4-6 factions so you can choose a side in an meaningful way.

 

Besides, I'm sure later on they'll make a Star Wars Ground Assault game based on the same rules system if their license allows for it.

 

Anyway, I hope we see some demo videos go up today with more info so we can get a better idea of how the system works.  I think there's a lot of potential, just too many open questions at this point to really know what it's like.

 

Also, while I get that Terrinoth already existed, I don't know anything about it and I feel most other people don't either which makes it seem a lot like just a generic fantasy.  FFG really needs to work on that if they want to suck more people into the game.  Convince us that this is a cool world with cool factions because right now you seem to have boring generic humans vs. boring generic undead.  What makes your guys interesting?  Do your evil factions exist as more than just caricatures?  What is each sides history, agenda, and so on?  When are more factions coming and what are their stories?  Because right now they're just generic elves and generic evil faction #2.

 

If you want the game to take off, you need to educate people and convince them that this is a vibrant interesting world so we can all find a faction we can be attached to.

 

Absolutely agree. I think Terrinoth has enough characters and factions to make the lore quite interesting.

The humans might represent one army in the face of another massive faction, but they are lacking a centralized ruler, making it easy for regional factions to exist as their own seperate armies. 

The same could be said for the elves, with the presence of the Latari and Deep elves in the setting.

Not sure how this could be applied to the Uthuk and the Undead, but a bit of lore can go a long way in developing split armies.

Orcs and Dwarves could get the same treatment as well.

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To make them less one-dimensional, can anyone familiar with the setting explain what the undead or demons do the rest of the time when they're not in a battle?

 

I mean, are they out there running stores, raising families, growing crops, and other everyday stuff?  Or do they spend their time mining magical minerals to fuel their dark spells and maintain their un-life or whatever?  What makes them more than cardboard cutout villains?

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To make them less one-dimensional, can anyone familiar with the setting explain what the undead or demons do the rest of the time when they're not in a battle?

 

I mean, are they out there running stores, raising families, growing crops, and other everyday stuff?  Or do they spend their time mining magical minerals to fuel their dark spells and maintain their un-life or whatever?  What makes them more than cardboard cutout villains?

 

I am pretty new to the lore, so I don;t have a good answer for your question, but it is precisely this issue that makes it almost impossible for me to get emotionally invested/excited about AOS as GW player of almost 25 years(started when I was 11). By making AOS mythological and making it feel much more like Angels and Demons fighting of Heaven or Greek Gods fighting over Olympus(whatever metaphor you want) I wonder what happens in those vast swaths of land they are said to be fighting over on the map.

 

Do people live and raise families there or are they just extras in a Heavy Metal album cover painting? The old Warhammer world was frail humans trying to eek out an existence in a mundane but dangerous world that was being tainted/invaded by powerful magic. I don't know what a person who lives in a mystical realm of existence ruled over by angel statues spends their day or life doing/dreaming of.

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To make them less one-dimensional, can anyone familiar with the setting explain what the undead or demons do the rest of the time when they're not in a battle?

 

I mean, are they out there running stores, raising families, growing crops, and other everyday stuff?  Or do they spend their time mining magical minerals to fuel their dark spells and maintain their un-life or whatever?  What makes them more than cardboard cutout villains?

 

The skellingtons are apparently doing the 'mindless puppet' routine for this one Lich King Nagash Settra Vecna Waiqar dude who apparently in turn is doing the 'corrupted by evil magic and wants to f up the world FOR EVIL' routine.

 

The demon barbarian people are apparently doing the Warhammer demonic barbarian thing, which is they live in a wasteland where there's nothing around to eat/do/build stuff with but since they're still alive, you better know they're dead hard (but just in case we'll make them all ripped and shirtless to get the point across. Apparently the innovation on the trope is that they actually have a stated source of sustenance, which is hunting and eating demons. Your idea on where that inexhaustible stock of edible demons comes from is as good as mine.

 

So no, if you'd like villains that are not cardboard cutouts you should go someplace else. The closest they ever got was with the Farrow family of trademark Descent villains, which is a vampire chick, her necromancer husband, and her death knight brother-in-law, from what I gather that might have been a Lady MacBeth kinda situation. Then again, it might have been a 'found a corrupting evil magic dohikey' kinda deal, I'm honestly not sure with how well structured the Terrinoth background is.

 

 

I am pretty new to the lore, so I don;t have a good answer for your question, but it is precisely this issue that makes it almost impossible for me to get emotionally invested/excited about AOS as GW player of almost 25 years(started when I was 11). By making AOS mythological and making it feel much more like Angels and Demons fighting of Heaven or Greek Gods fighting over Olympus(whatever metaphor you want) I wonder what happens in those vast swaths of land they are said to be fighting over on the map.

 

Do people live and raise families there or are they just extras in a Heavy Metal album cover painting? The old Warhammer world was frail humans trying to eek out an existence in a mundane but dangerous world that was being tainted/invaded by powerful magic. I don't know what a person who lives in a mystical realm of existence ruled over by angel statues spends their day or life doing/dreaming of.

 

 

You are taking a very miniscule and very specific piece of the old Warhammer background, namely, parts of the story of the human realms of Empire, Bretonnia and Kislev (and maybe Tilea, Estalia, Cathay and Nippon, but it's hard to tell since these were pretty much blank slates for the entirety of the Warhammer run), that was deliberately made as relatable and functional and similar to actual Earth history as possible to give you a reference point, and blowing them out of proportion to encompass the entirety of the setting. Taken as a whole, Warhammer had just as much dumb heavy metal van art stuff that made no sense and commited just as many storytelling sins as Age of Sigmar, Terrinoth, D&D or any other fantasy setting ever did, especially if it's a fantasy setting that's background for a board/war game.

 

As for Age of Sigmar, I only read a few of the books and a good chunk of them is 90% hammer porn with no meaningful plot, but from what I gather the deal there actually is that nothing much happens in those vast swathes of land they are fighting over. As in, it's all been more or less completely f'd up by Chaos over the several hundred years Sigmar was sitting locked up tight in Sigmarville moping over how bummer Chaos f'ing all the land is. He finally got his act together and told Heimdall to open the Bifrost lightning-ported his guys over to retake the realm(s), but apparently there isn't all that much left to retake so it's kind of a futile gesture really. Which in itself isn't a bad concept, it's actually pretty refreshing as far as fantasy wargame background gets. Not sure if they'll stick with it though.

Edited by Don_Silvarro

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You are taking a very miniscule and very specific piece of the old Warhammer background, namely, parts of the story of the human realms of Empire, Bretonnia and Kislev (and maybe Tilea, Estalia, Cathay and Nippon, but it's hard to tell since these were pretty much blank slates for the entirety of the Warhammer run), that was deliberately made as relatable and functional and similar to actual Earth history as possible to give you a reference point, and blowing them out of proportion to encompass the entirety of the setting. Taken as a whole, Warhammer had just as much dumb heavy metal van art stuff that made no sense and commited just as many storytelling sins as Age of Sigmar, Terrinoth, D&D or any other fantasy setting ever did, especially if it's a fantasy setting that's background for a board/war game.

As for Age of Sigmar, I only read a few of the books and a good chunk of them is 90% hammer porn with no meaningful plot, but from what I gather the deal there actually is that nothing much happens in those vast swathes of land they are fighting over. As in, it's all been more or less completely f'd up by Chaos over the several hundred years Sigmar was sitting locked up tight in Sigmarville moping over how bummer Chaos f'ing all the land is. He finally got his act together and told Heimdall to open the Bifrost lightning-ported his guys over to retake the realm(s), but apparently there isn't all that much left to retake so it's kind of a futile gesture really. Which in itself isn't a bad concept, it's actually pretty refreshing as far as fantasy wargame background gets. Not sure if they'll stick with it though.

You are certainly right that none of these settings is particularly well grounded. And, I certainly never meant to imply that The Old World of WFB wasn't metal and over the top. I think what I was trying to get across in an inarticulate was that in AOS everything feels much more eternal.

In WFB each race had gods or god-like entities but the rank and file members of the races were finite and fragile. Aside from the undead and chaos for most creatures walking around and battling death was a real and permanent possibility. In my limited AOS exposure this seems to be greatly mitigated. The Stormcast get reforged, the Lizardmen may have just been mental conjurations to begin with and that sort of thing.

While I think this has the potential to be a cool setting for stories and is a nice break from more generic fantasy, it removes a bit of the stakes for me as a setting for a wargame. Maybe I'm not being fair though. This exchange has actually got me interested in the proper lore for AOS and not just online rehashes. I may buy a book or two to check it out.

Edited by Nickel Eye

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Warhammer>Runebound>Age of sigmar

 

Yeah, I can see why they made this game, even if it probably isn't for me.

 

 

I like runebound better than Warhammer, but that is just me.

 

I have to say i don't know anything about the Reunebound world but i'm excited to learn about it with this game.

 

 

It's like this fantasy world that that has a big kingdom of noble humans, elves that are good and live in forests, dwarves that are indifferent and live in the mountains, skellingtons that are bad and demon barbarian people that are - wait for it - also bad. There's also some dragons that like to f stuff up occasionally. I'm not sure there's much to learn beyond that.

 

You forgot about the troublesome goblins ^_^

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You are certainly right that none of these settings is particularly well grounded. And, I certainly never meant to imply that The Old World of WFB wasn't metal and over the top. I think what I was trying to get across in an inarticulate was that in AOS everything feels much more eternal.

In WFB each race had gods or god-like entities but the rank and file members of the races were finite and fragile. Aside from the undead and chaos for most creatures walking around and battling death was a real and permanent possibility. In my limited AOS exposure this seems to be greatly mitigated. The Stormcast get reforged, the Lizardmen may have just been mental conjurations to begin with and that sort of thing.

While I think this has the potential to be a cool setting for stories and is a nice break from more generic fantasy, it removes a bit of the stakes for me as a setting for a wargame. Maybe I'm not being fair though. This exchange has actually got me interested in the proper lore for AOS and not just online rehashes. I may buy a book or two to check it out.

 

 

Stormcast Eternals get reforged, but not only is that an extremely painful and unpleasant process, every time that happens, part of their soul slips away. Guys that were reforged a couple times are already more aloof, emotionless and sluggish, they also have trouble remembering their comrades. It's not a huge leap to assume that they can only be reforgd a finite number of times. I think it's also not a huge leap to assume that having your soul gradually lose integrity by having it repeatedly broken up and put back together might ultimately be a far worse fate than 'regular' death as far as the spiritual goes.

 

Seraphon are thought constructs, but the Slann that conjure them up are still regular people that are known to perish in battle. Which is a huge blow, since there's only handful of them and they're one of the very few creatures that actually know and remember about the so-called 'world that was'.

 

While most of the realms have been effed up by Chaos, Archaon is still around and he's still doing his usual thing. His usual thing being that he's not satisfied with just winning and effing stuff up, he's compelled to literally unravel all of creation again because he's a nihilistic bastard for some actually legitimate reasons that I won't go into now.

 

Also, there's still a fairly large bunch of quite regular people still alive, but those are all refugees and descendants of refugees that were all locked up safely in Sigmarville when Sigmar started moping. Apparently that's a multi-cultural nation with some elves and dwarves thrown in the mix. I imagine they're living a fairly 'normal' life like people in the old Empire, only probably with the religious aspect dialed to 11 on account of being literally and physically saved by the second coming of their god.

 

So yeah, there's still stuff at stake in Age of Sigmar. Though I'll give you that the new background is hard to consume, extremely fragmented and the interesting bits are mostly hidden behind loud and obnoxious hammer porn and that makes it seem like it isn't the case.

Edited by Don_Silvarro

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Yes, this is the type of miniatures game I was hoping FFG would make for Star Wars years ago when I first fell in love with X-Wing. But they ended up giving us Imperial Assault instead. At the moment I collect X-Wing, imperial assault and the LCG, so I'm more then happy to wait longer for it. I hope they make something like it some day.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this game plays. I can't wait for someone to post a demo video!

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I'm honestly relieved this didn't come out for Star Wars. I mean, I like SW, but it's nice to have some alternatives to SW. SW already has 2 miniature games (X-Wing + Armada), 1 boardgame heavy on minis (Imperial Assault), 1 LCG, 1 collectible card and dice game, the small Empire vs Rebellion, the huge Star Wars Rebellion and possibly something else I don't remember at the moment. For me it's more than enough, everyone has an option to choose the game he likes the most. It's nice to see other universes being promoted, and finally the Terrinoth IP being used. Over the years they developed it a lot, I'm very happy for the choice.

 

Plus, not going SW is also a good strategic move: in case they lose the license for SW, this game will still exist

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A mass battle Star Wars game would make me very excited for sure, but honestly the more I think about it, the less it appeals. Ground combat in Star Wars is almost always small scale, a small group going for objectives or a very narrative, uninterrupted confrontation between 2 people rather than pitched battles, and that is better represented in Imperial Assault. Even Endor, the closest thing to a mass ground battle, was really more a large number of skirmishes and vignettes due to how dense the terrain was. Like, I think it would be better represented by three forest-y ImpAss skirmishes than a big board with a Stormtrooper firing line and Ewoks in cover or whatever.

 

The only FFG I buy is Star Wars stuff but I think I'll probably get into this too. If the mechanics are as tight as X-Wing, and there's no reason they shouldn't be, then it'll be good times and I always enjoy having more minis to paint.

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Or they could just release some sort of rule set allowing you to use Imperial Assault minis. Has anyone tried playing Skirmish sans a board?

This game looks stellar. I'm interested in seeing other factions.

Definitely. Would love to see how the other armies shape up. On the fence so far. New to this particular game but I like the.minis. Undead are always a great starting point. But want to see something new, something fresh.

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Yup, but L5R could take a while to develop; still, at the InFlight report it was stated that the L5R LCG is only the first of a series of games set in that universe, so, maybe we'll have boardgames, miniature games, collectibles, and a gazillion ways more to nuke our savings..

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Terriroth to me is the worst of the possible worlds for this game, SW, L5R are much more better choices, plenty of units and background. This is my own opinion.

I can understand that but it also makes sense for them to use their own world because they will never lose the license for Terriroth so it is a good idea to expand this universe.

Edited by Iceeagle85

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Terriroth to me is the worst of the possible worlds for this game, SW, L5R are much more better choices, plenty of units and background. This is my own opinion.

I can understand that but it also makes sense for them to use their one world because they will never lose the license for Terriroth so it is a good idea to expand this universe.

 

I understand they have not to pay any royalties to third companies, but I don't like it. Maybe with painted miniatures...

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L5R with this engine would have been amazing and instantly had a full selection of faction with a super-rich backstory.  Pretty much everything minis fans would want.

 

But, they may have felt it was TOO many factions and they'd have a point.  While they might eventually support that many, it's hard out of the gate when you don't know how popular the game is going to be and they likely didn't want to take a risk.

 

However, if this game does well you might see an L5R version down the line.  The flip side of that is you've launched the engine with a weaker theme and may never know how much bigger a success you'd have had with the stronger theme.

 

For me, I'm content to watch this on the sidelines, let FFG learn some lessons about how to tune up the engine and do it better next time, then let L5R benefit from around 2 years worth of experience and be the better game for it.

Edited by dboeren

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@dboeren

 

Can it be argued that they learned from XWing to make Armada (different colored attack dice)... maybe RuneWars is the cumulation of their efforts?

 

I bet that they have their A-team on this... considering what they are trying to do.

 

I feel XWing has a maintain the cash cow team?

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Oh certainly.  This game is benefitting from the experiences of X-Wing and Armada, but there is some leakage because they're transitioning from a space game to a ground game so some concepts don't necessarily map 1:1.  The maneuvering feel is likely quite different and there are substantial differences in mechanics too.  You're also going from a game of firing arcs where dodging is central to a primarily melee game where arcs do exist but are not really as important.

 

And then the next game will learn from all three prior games and inherit more direct lessons about melee ground operations.

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