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Cubanboy

Wave 10 Artical is up

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Wave 9 didn't have much for me. While I like the tactical maneuvering best in this game, I knew from playing with and against Firesprays that rear arcs were surprisingly boring. The expanded arc of the Hound's Tooth is more fun and a simple 360° firing is much simpler and fun occasionally. So I gave the Tie/Sf a play in proxy and it was only kinda fun; not worth getting. I haven't tried the Shadow Caster yet, but really it's just Rigged Cargo and Sesimic Torpedos that have my excitement.

 

This Wave is much more exciting. I'm not a Star Wars fan, so I'd much rather have ships look cool than be familiar , and gameplay is much more important to me than aesthetics. The Epsilon shuttle, Sabine's Tie and Quadjumper all look appealing to me, unlike the hideous Shadow Caster.

 

The designs look good too. I think the coordinate action on the shuttle is a simple addition that will work wonders as a support ship, since it seems like it will often neither attack nor defend and would rather have its action go to another ship. I like how Kylo's pilot ability discourages attacking. Kylo's condition looks like it'd be fun to play around with, and I look forward to chasing frightened foes out of my 4-dice arc.

 

The quadjumper looks like a cheap ship that won't last too long, but would make a neat blocker, especially with Unjar as the Pilot (bumping a ship and messing with its movement sounds like fun :) ) But a Score to Settle not only looks like the fun of Agent Kallus, on almost any ship (as an unrestricted elite pilot talent), with a little Mangler Cannon action built in, but I'm excited to see what the condition does.

 

The main thing that concerns me about this wave is the complexity creep. It's clear that the simple design space has been totally exhausted, hence the scum tie interceptor with tallon rolls and some bonuses for jousting last wave, and the millionith card that modifies attack and/or defense dice in way x under condition z with cost y. If Fantasy Flight Games wants to keep selling expansions, then they have no choice but to keep adding rules so they can have more special abilities that interact with those rules. Conditions are a good choice for a mechanic that's only moderately complicated with a lot of potential for designs.

 

Still, imagine yourself as a new player who's playing in their first tournament after playing the core set. In any given game, you could have to figure out tractor beam tokens from bumping this ship but also from being in Range 1-2 of this ship's rotating firing arc (another mechanic to learn) and also have to understand dropping a debris field and the difference between debris and asteroids while they're still trying to wrap their heads around asteroids and a cloaking device thanks to an upgrade that might get discarded at the end of the round and conditions and modifications and titles and dual cards and ion tokens and how mines work. And then have to process ten different pilot abilities and upgrade cards.*

 

It's a lot to handle all at once and I think it will seriously hurt new player acquisition.

 

Also, we're reaching the threshold where there are so many special abilities that the game becomes more about combining special abilities than it is about flying ships. The game will be played more and more in the squad building step than in the actual game, making having the right cards more important than player skill. See Dengaroo as a list based on special ability synergies; these will become more common.

 

I'm also miffed that faction differentiation, which is very important in promoting diversity in squad lists, is further undermined by giving a tie fighter and illicit upgrade slot to Rebels. Rebels and Scum need to play differently; they shouldn't be drawing from a very similar upgrade pool. Rebels and Imperials need to play differently; they shouldn't both have cheap, maneuverable, disposable ships. It's bad enough that most upgrades are faction-neutral. Imagine how different the factions would play if Push the Limit and Predator were Imperial only, if Connor Net and Veteran Instincts and Deadeye were Rebel only, like how Glitterstim and Inertial Dampeners and Hot Shot Blaster and Rigged Cargo are Scum only– oh wait. This needs to stop.

 

*Easily accomplished with Unjar Plutt in Quadjumper with Connor Net and Cloaking Device, Shadow Caster with Rigged Cargo, Gyrostabilizer, Adaptability, and Shadow Caster Title, other assorted upgrades and pilot abilities.

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Also why does Random Quadjumper Schlep get to be PS 7 and Master of the Knights of Ren is PS 6?

 

Uhhhh....did you see him in the movie?

 

PS6 is...GENEROUS...

 

I mean, yeah, he's got spooky Force mojo...kinda...now and then.  Some things he does really well, other things he kinda sucks balls at.  So...not a problem believing that skill level.

 

 The issue is he is not being trained by someone force sensitive, or who has a lot of real world combat or pilot skills to apply to Kylos training. That much is pretty obvious. It seems what Kylo knows about being a sith/Jedi/pilot, he likely learned all of that from Luke/leia/han before falling.(speculation of course).

 

No i dont think what we saw of Kylo so far translates into high pilot skill. I agree PS6 is generous.

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I don't get the argument for the Quadjumper being a misinformed pick. I get it they could have had the Havoc, and all manner of other craft, but instead went with a canon ship from a very recent film to capitalise on the name, plus they can then design Unkar Plutt cards and such. Yet people decry it saying "It blew up and was only in the film for 3 seconds." I take that argument and raise you the B-Wing, at release, total screentime was about 10 seconds, and in those 10 seconds what did it do? It flew a tiny bit...and then opened its wings. Big whoopty doo.

 

I want the Havoc, I want the Assault Gunboat, hell I want ANYTHING that can be justified, I'm very easy to please. I don't go around declaring this wave sucks just because its not what I want or am expecting. I'm focusing on the positives. I really like the design of the Quadjumper and the reverse move means it may find a unique place in the fleet, has some interesting named cards too.

 

Upsilon, we were going to get it, it was just a case of when we would get it, glad to see it and interested to see how it will be an alternative to the Lambda rather than replace it.

 

Sabine's TIE, star of the wave for me. I am a big fan of The Clone Wars and Rebels, and while it was completely unexpected it throws a TIE Fighter with a very unique upgrade slot potential into the Rebels. You can't run a swarm (unless you count the mini swarm of unique pilots) but I am really looking forward to it as a ship option for me, Sabine is one of the best Attack Shuttle pilots, and I really want to see what she can do in a TIE Fighter. Plus we get Ahsoka, so I am good there!

 

I get it isn't what people were hoping for, but focus on the positives and look at how the ship can be useful and what it can give rather than what it isn't and what it could have been.

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I love the quad.

 

They gave us a unique scum ship from TFA, and pilots that mesh well with the faction. Thats pretty cool in my book.

 

Also, i have heard a lot of speculation about the 6-1 maneuvers on the dial including a single reverse. What if 5 of the moves are reverse, and the sixth is a 1 forward? That would be pretty freaking cool.

Edited by JoeVandal49

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I don't get the argument for the Quadjumper being a misinformed pick. I get it they could have had the Havoc, and all manner of other craft, but instead went with a canon ship from a very recent film to capitalise on the name, plus they can then design Unkar Plutt cards and such. Yet people decry it saying "It blew up and was only in the film for 3 seconds." I take that argument and raise you the B-Wing, at release, total screentime was about 10 seconds, and in those 10 seconds what did it do? It flew a tiny bit...and then opened its wings. Big whoopty doo.

 

I want the Havoc, I want the Assault Gunboat, hell I want ANYTHING that can be justified, I'm very easy to please. I don't go around declaring this wave sucks just because its not what I want or am expecting. I'm focusing on the positives. I really like the design of the Quadjumper and the reverse move means it may find a unique place in the fleet, has some interesting named cards too.

I gotta say I really like the design of the Quadjumper. It's very unorthodox for a Star Wars ship, while still being cool-looking and recognizable as part of the Star Wars aesthetic. 

 

Plus, it's a way to get one of the more recognizable side characters in the new movie into the game in a way that makes sense. ONE QUARTER PORTION. 

Edited by WingedSpider

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What I would love to see for the Quad's reverse is whatever's available as a forwards move downgraded one level, so greens become white, whites red and reds unavailable...now that really would be "turning on a dime"...unfortunately, ain't gonna happen  :(

 

EDIT: This assumes it doesn't have any 3 green/white moves, I hasten to add

Edited by ianmiddy

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A ship we never saw fly, only explode? I know we're getting a bit short on ships, but c'mon now. :P

Rebel TIE was inevitable. Interesting they Marek's Sabine. Conditions... I dunno. Could be cool. Feels a bit 'we needed a while new mechanic again' though. Hmm.

Will be waiting to see, for sure.

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All the talk about PS 6 Ren... Until the next movie where he solos even more ships than Poe... Next wave we get an Upsilon repaint with a PS 9 Ren?!?!?

If that happens, it'll surely be Kylo doing it in some sort of custom TIE, not in a shuttle.

 

Which is why I was surprised they included Kylo as a pilot of the Upsilon. This could end up setting a precedent for a pilot having different PS in different ships, and I don't know whether FFG wants to go there.

 

Though personally I'd be fine for having that established; somebody who's great at piloting fighters could very well be worse at piloting large ships, and vice versa.

 

A ship we never saw fly, only explode? I know we're getting a bit short on ships, but c'mon now. :P

Really they're not short on ships at all, even if they stick to canon-only from now on (as seems to be the case so far). So many Legends ships are already canon again that they're not going to run out any time soon.

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Though personally I'd be fine for having that established; somebody who's great at piloting fighters could very well be worse at piloting large ships, and vice versa.

 

I would guess that's why Ventress has a low PS in a Lancer despite being nearly Anakin's match when in her own starfighter.

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The real issue for running out of ships has always been the Rebels. There just aren't very many Rebel small ships left. 

 

Empire has a good stock of weird TIE variants (Plus the always popular Gunboat) and Scum is brimming with crazy ships from Galaxies and the like. Rebels... Well, we're now dipping into Clone Wars ships repurposed for the Rebel Alliance, so that gives you a good idea of how few options there are. 

 

 

 

 

Though personally I'd be fine for having that established; somebody who's great at piloting fighters could very well be worse at piloting large ships, and vice versa.

 

I would guess that's why Ventress has a low PS in a Lancer despite being nearly Anakin's match when in her own starfighter.

I would first question how Asajj Ventress is still alive during the Galactic Civil War. :P

Edited by WingedSpider

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It's 15 base and 1 for the title.

 

Really? Huh. Looked like 18pts to me. 15pts is WAAAY too cheap for this thing. This thing is nuts. Well, good for Rebels, they've been hurting for awhile.

 

Sabine is ps5 for 15 points. The original imp ps6 pilots are 16 points. Youngster is ps6 with an ept for 15 points. Ps5 tie pilots are 15 points. Shes priced fine.

 

Quadjumper is awesome, Shuttle is awesome.  Sabines TIE... wtf, lol? 

 

Also why does Random Quadjumper Schlep get to be PS 7 and Master of the Knights of Ren is PS 6?

 

Also, what the hell is with all the movie quote cards?  That should just not be allowed.

We havent see Master of the Knights of Ren actually pilot anything. Not everyone in the galaxy has to be amazing pilots. Maybe he's been too busy with his force training to practice piloting all the time

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Theory time:

The six 1 speed maneuvers are not a straight, banks, turns, and a straight reverse. What if it's just a green straight and banks and these rumored reverse maneuvers are the same in red: a straight and two banks. Therefore, you could back up and turn slightly. Seems logical for a ship that's made to move crates and tug ships. Imagine a 3 point turn, that sort of thing.

Thoughts?

Edited by Engine25

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Theory time:

The six 1 speed maneuvers are not a straight, banks, turns, and a straight reverse. What if it's just a green straight and these rumored reverse maneuvers are the same in red: a straight and two banks. Therefore, you could back up and turn slightly. Seems logical for a ship that's made to move crates and tug ships. Imagine a 3 point turn, that sort of thing.

Thoughts?

 

Sounds good, although I'd hope that the reverse straight might be a white...but I agree re the turning circle - I see it as like a forklift, good at moving in tight spaces in a warehouse, but you wouldn't want to use it as a company car!  :huh:

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What I would love to see for the Quad's reverse is whatever's available as a forwards move downgraded one level, so greens become white, whites red and reds unavailable...now that really would be "turning on a dime"...unfortunately, ain't gonna happen  :(

 

EDIT: This assumes it doesn't have any 3 green/white moves, I hasten to add

Heres a crazy idea: everyone's been assuming the 6 speed ones will be all 5 normal maneuvers plus a 1 reverse. What if thats wrong. What if it only has straights and banks, but had them in BOTH directions? Still 6 maneuvers, but way cooler IMO

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What I would love to see for the Quad's reverse is whatever's available as a forwards move downgraded one level, so greens become white, whites red and reds unavailable...now that really would be "turning on a dime"...unfortunately, ain't gonna happen  :(

 

EDIT: This assumes it doesn't have any 3 green/white moves, I hasten to add

Heres a crazy idea: everyone's been assuming the 6 speed ones will be all 5 normal maneuvers plus a 1 reverse. What if thats wrong. What if it only has straights and banks, but had them in BOTH directions? Still 6 maneuvers, but way cooler IMO

 

 

Think that's what Engine25 was driving at above...but I may have misunderstood  :unsure:

 

EDIT: Out of likes  :(  just too excited about the Quad & TIE  :wacko:

Edited by ianmiddy

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Theory time:

The six 1 speed maneuvers are not a straight, banks, turns, and a straight reverse. What if it's just a green straight and these rumored reverse maneuvers are the same in red: a straight and two banks. Therefore, you could back up and turn slightly. Seems logical for a ship that's made to move crates and tug ships. Imagine a 3 point turn, that sort of thing.

Thoughts?

Beat me to it

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It's 15 base and 1 for the title.

Really? Huh. Looked like 18pts to me. 15pts is WAAAY too cheap for this thing. This thing is nuts. Well, good for Rebels, they've been hurting for awhile.

Sabine is ps5 for 15 points. The original imp ps6 pilots are 16 points. Youngster is ps6 with an ept for 15 points. Ps5 tie pilots are 15 points. Shes priced fine.

She is priced fine. Backstabber, would love to trade -1 PS for the option of having an EPT, crew, AND illicit. Night Beast would love to pay 1 more point for access to the same. Youngsters ability is also pretty terrible compared to hers and, again, doesn't have a crew and illicit! Her price is fine for a tie but when you add in that she gets an EPT, action economy, access to boost, an illicit, and a crew we're no longer talking about her being balanced with the other ships. The fact that a rebel ship gets a better tie fighter is obnoxious.

Yep it eats her "title slot". Any imperial ties have those? Yes, it's unique. It's still better than any imperial tie regardless of cost. Heck, she's better off than any FO sans OL and ZL, her crew version can trade bombs for missiles with an adv prototype for action economy and munitions, and is really probably better off than any non-named interceptor since she has boost and PS and illicit and crew to cover that one red dice. It's just kinda silly.

I'll fly the hell out of it but it needs to be said how out of whack it is that rebels get not just a tie fighter but a better tie fighter. Probably just a better tie.

Edited by Rakky Wistol

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Heck, she's better off than any FO sans OL and ZL, her crew version can trade bombs for missiles with an adv prototype for action economy and munitions, and is really probably better off than any non-named interceptor since she has boost and PS and illicit and crew to cover that one red dice.

 

Sabine can only drop bombs when taken as a crew, not as a pilot.

Edited by Ironlord

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So they are giving the most iconic Imperial craft to the rebels now?  Do we have anything left for them to steal at this point?  Oh, and of course all of the upgrades are Rebel Only.

 

The shuttle had better have some new tech that makes the TIE/sf not suck, otherwise this wave 10 is a huge disappointment.

Sorry, steal? You mean like how Scum stold 3 Rebel ships and only 1 Imperial ship? What else did the Rebels 'steal' from your precious Empire?

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FFG has really, really lost me on this wave. Conditions feel like a total chore, an unnecessary additional mechanic to complicate an otherwise simple game. And don't get me started on Rebels being able to field the most iconic Imperial ship. Thank goodness it has no generics.

 

Just wait for Wave 11 when Scum gets the Mining Guild TIE  :P

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mining_Guild_TIE_fighter

 

reb_ca_1281_154f0b9e_zpsmrv4metj.jpeg

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