Death Squadron

[tenchi2a 442]

Death Squadron   
Author: tenchi2a

Faction: Galactic Empire 
Points: 400/400 

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery 
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost 
Navigation Objective: Minefields 

 

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Admiral Motti  ( 24  points) 
-  Avenger  ( 5  points) 
-  Veteran Captain  ( 3  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
-  SW 7 Ion Batteries  ( 5  points) 
= 171 total ship cost

 

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Relentless  ( 3  points) 
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points) 
-  Ruthless Strategists  ( 4  points) 
-  Redundant Shields  ( 8  points) 
-  Overload Pulse  ( 8  points) 
= 150 total ship cost

 

8 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 64 points) 
1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points) 

 

This fleet is intended for use against rebels fielding large capital ships.

The idea is that the 2 ISD would bracket the ship with the Relentless attacking first causing the exhaustion of the defenders tokens and the Avenger finishing off the target 

While this is going on the fighters will tie-up the defenders smaller forces (fighter/small ships)

Trying to stay with and Imperial theme here would love some feedback on this list

for reference I have: 2 IDS, 3 VSD (1 from box, 2 from the starters that me and my friend split),1 gladiator, 1 raider, 2 Imperial fighters packs, and  Rouges and Villains pack.

Edited August 3, 2016 by tenchi2a

[Mad Cat 2,250]

Without an Intel fighter Mauler will probably only do his thing once so Howlrunner will probably give you more value over the whole game. Drop SW7 for leading shots to free up the point. Avenger can discard an unneeded accuracy to get rerolls with the red dice so you shouldn't loose any firepower.

 

Drop ruthless strategist and one TIE fighter to give you 12 points to upgrade 4 TIEs to interceptors. Their extra attacks and the counterattack shots (with swarm rerolls & Howlrunner) should inflict more damage on the enemy than ruthless strategists will and you won't have to take extra hits on vulnerable 3 hull TIEs. This also gives you 8 squadrons overall which is in your squadron command capacity.

[tenchi2a 442]

don't have leading shot so not an option and can't fined another cut for the point I would need, but I missed the interceptor idea so ty for that.

[Ginkapo 9,321]

Add Dengar and you get counter 4 interceptors, or counter 2 ties...

On Relentless, Intel officer or Overload Pulse? Whats the point of both?

[tenchi2a 442]

Add Dengar and you get counter 4 interceptors, or counter 2 ties...

On Relentless, Intel officer or Overload Pulse? Whats the point of both?

1. As stated this is an Imperial themed Fleet Dengar is a bounty hunter not an Imperial

 

2. The relentless has Overloaded pulse to allow the Avengers ability to work.

As for the Intel officer he helps protect the blue crits so the Overloaded pulse can work, but if you have a better Upgrade to replace it would love to hear your idea.

[Ginkapo 9,321]

Add Dengar and you get counter 4 interceptors, or counter 2 ties...

On Relentless, Intel officer or Overload Pulse? Whats the point of both?

1. As stated this is an Imperial themed Fleet Dengar is a bounty hunter not an Imperial

 

2. The relentless has Overloaded pulse to allow the Avengers ability to work.

As for the Intel officer he helps protect the blue crits so the Overloaded pulse can work, but if you have a better Upgrade to replace it would love to hear your idea.

How does it protect blue crit? Against what? Anything with evades is pitifully small and not worth worrying about with intel...

[tenchi2a 442]

 

 

Add Dengar and you get counter 4 interceptors, or counter 2 ties...

On Relentless, Intel officer or Overload Pulse? Whats the point of both?

1. As stated this is an Imperial themed Fleet Dengar is a bounty hunter not an Imperial

 

2. The relentless has Overloaded pulse to allow the Avengers ability to work.

As for the Intel officer he helps protect the blue crits so the Overloaded pulse can work, but if you have a better Upgrade to replace it would love to hear your idea.

How does it protect blue crit? Against what? Anything with evades is pitifully small and not worth worrying about with intel...

 

again you telling me I don't need it but not what you would replace it with. Its not that I don't see your point, but just saying I don't need it doesn't help.

[Ginkapo 9,321]

Nothing.

Enjoy having a small bid for first player. You dont HAVE to spend 400pts

[tenchi2a 442]

Nothing.

Enjoy having a small bid for first player. You dont HAVE to spend 400pts

That type of response is why my friends and I don't play in tournaments any more.

Its all about winning not about having fun.

so you problem with Intel officer is not that is bad but that I don't always have get first player?

[Ginkapo 9,321]

Nothing.

Enjoy having a small bid for first player. You dont HAVE to spend 400pts

That type of response is why my friends and I don't play in tournaments any more.

Its all about winning not about having fun.

so you problem with Intel officer is not that is bad but that I don't always have get first player?

No my issue is it adds zero to the ship. And I mean zero.

[chr335 658]

Ginkapo is correct I imagine you are attempting to use the overload pulse avenger combo which is strong but intel officer is kind of redundant for the list.

[Green Knight 9,746]

Death Squadron, without the Devastator?

 

Vader

 

ISD-I

Devastator

Montferrat

Fire-Control Teams

Tractor Beams

NK-7s

XX-9s

 

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

[tenchi2a 442]

Ginkapo is correct I imagine you are attempting to use the overload pulse avenger combo which is strong but intel officer is kind of redundant for the list.

Was not saying he was wrong in any way.

My point was Ginapo was saying I don't need it without giving an alternative to intel officer.

I am more then happy to take constructive criticism, but as my boss always said "it's wrong is not constructive criticism"

[tenchi2a 442]

Death Squadron, without the Devastator?

 

Vader

 

ISD-I

Devastator

Montferrat

Fire-Control Teams

Tractor Beams

NK-7s

XX-9s

 

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

Why beside the Devastator being part of the Death Squadron?

doesn't fit the fleet design and cost to must for what I would have to lose.

[Baltanok 558]

Tenchi, if you are swapping out the ruthless strategist to let you upgrade ties to Tie-ints, how about also replacing the intel officer with boosted comms.  You won't have to worry about your interceptors getting too far ahead to control.

 

You still have 3 points to spend on another officer of some kind.

 

alternately, replace intel officer with Flight Controllers if you plan on keeping the fighters close to your ships for extra fighter killing.

[tenchi2a 442]

Tenchi, if you are swapping out the ruthless strategist to let you upgrade ties to Tie-ints, how about also replacing the intel officer with boosted comms.  You won't have to worry about your interceptors getting too far ahead to control.

 

You still have 3 points to spend on another officer of some kind.

 

alternately, replace intel officer with Flight Controllers if you plan on keeping the fighters close to your ships for extra fighter killing.

the fighters in this fleet are there more as a roadblock to his fighters.

but I do see the value in what you are saying.

I'm concerned I don't have to enough fighters at this point.

[Green Knight 9,746]

 

Death Squadron, without the Devastator?

 

Vader

 

ISD-I

Devastator

Montferrat

Fire-Control Teams

Tractor Beams

NK-7s

XX-9s

 

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

Why beside the Devastator being part of the Death Squadron?

doesn't fit the fleet design and cost to must for what I would have to lose.

 

 

It was just a for fun comment.

 

Some real critique:

 

Setting up an OP-Avenger combo with a 2nd player 2-ship build (both large base) is next to impossible. Plus, even with 4 blue dice, there is no guarantee of even scoring that crit you need. Screed would be needed for that. You do have an Intel officer, which I guess is kind of a backup if the OP doesn't trigger, but it's a costly gambit at best.

 

Also, why take Redundant Shields? That's an incredibly niche upgrade that needs synergy with Projection Experts and whatnot.

 

Your squadron setup could use some work. Mithel alone will have a very short lifespan. As will all those TIEs if they get shot at by anti-squadron (which they will be, since you have only 2 ships and cant hope to saturate your opponent with better targets for all his arcs). Also, what do you need them for? One alpha strike, and then just leave them hanging? TIEs need squadron commands, and I can't see you having the option of spaming very many over the course of a game.

[tenchi2a 442]

 

 

Death Squadron, without the Devastator?

 

Vader

 

ISD-I

Devastator

Montferrat

Fire-Control Teams

Tractor Beams

NK-7s

XX-9s

 

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

Why beside the Devastator being part of the Death Squadron?

doesn't fit the fleet design and cost to must for what I would have to lose.

 

 

It was just a for fun comment.

 

Some real critique:

 

Setting up an OP-Avenger combo with a 2nd player 2-ship build (both large base) is next to impossible. Plus, even with 4 blue dice, there is no guarantee of even scoring that crit you need. Screed would be needed for that. You do have an Intel officer, which I guess is kind of a backup if the OP doesn't trigger, but it's a costly gambit at best.

 

Also, why take Redundant Shields? That's an incredibly niche upgrade that needs synergy with Projection Experts and whatnot.

 

Your squadron setup could use some work. Mithel alone will have a very short lifespan. As will all those TIEs if they get shot at by anti-squadron (which they will be, since you have only 2 ships and cant hope to saturate your opponent with better targets for all his arcs). Also, what do you need them for? One alpha strike, and then just leave them hanging? TIEs need squadron commands, and I can't see you having the option of spaming very many over the course of a game.

 

1. Just to clarify this fleet is a Imperial theme fleet not for tournament play, I don't play tournament anymore got tired of the tournament dictating my army/fleets/etc.

2. this fleet is design to fight rebel fleets with large size ships. I have my Wing Commander Fleet for small to med ships.

3. the fighters are more of a roadblock to enemy squadrons to allow the ISD to go to work.

4. not sure if the commits about the fighters are based on the list here or the list with Mad Cats ideas added? so can't really tell if I need to fix something or not.

[tenchi2a 442]

my modified Death Squadron   
Author: tenchi2a

Faction: Galactic Empire 
Points: 399/400 

Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery 
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost 
Navigation Objective: Minefields 

 

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Admiral Screed  ( 26  points) 
-  Avenger  ( 5  points) 
-  Veteran Captain  ( 3  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
-  SW 7 Ion Batteries  ( 5  points) 
= 166 total ship cost

 

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Relentless  ( 3  points) 
-  Wing Commander  ( 6  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Expanded Hangar Bay  ( 5  points) 
-  Boosted Comms  ( 4  points) 
-  Quad Turbolaser Cannons  ( 10  points) 
-  Overload Pulse  ( 8  points) 
= 150 total ship cost

 

1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points) 
3 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 24 points) 
4 TIE Interceptor Squadrons ( 44 points)

[Baltanok 558]

Tenchi, you have mentioned more than once that this fleet is intended to fight Rebel large ships only.

Does your group have some sort of house rule to set up specific matches? So, this game will be large ship fleets, next will be small ships, etc?

[TheEasternKing 607]

I like it, people give you great constructive feedback, and you reply with "I'm doing what I want, because you're telling me tournament builds!".

 

They are not telling you tournament builds, they are giving you good common sense.

 

Trying to OLP then Avenger with 2 ISD's as player two is virtually impossible, and we are saying that, because we ourselves have tried it in casual games with friends, to see if it works, it doesn't.

 

The only real success I ever had with OLP/Avenger was both upgrades on the same ship, and either being player one, and double arcing side/front or taking my opponents Advanced Gunnery, and hitting something with the ISD front/front.

 

Otherwise, you have the problem that a ship needs to be not only in dice range of the OLP ship(blue front arc) that ship then has to fly into your Avengers front arc (red/blue) the chances of this happening are astronomical. Rebel ships are quicker and more maneuverable than their Imperial counterparts, 9/10 you will get to throw 4/2 red dice at a ship that can not spend a def token, big whop! average damage is 2 on 4 red, 1 on 2 red. And not only that you have to activate Relentless first, and then Avenger, any competent player will nail you to the wall with a rigid activation order, you could take 4 shots, and many squadron hits before you activate Avenger.

Also 2 activations...is a huge gamble, with such a rigid fleet design. You need activations to make your opponent have to move stuff he does not want to, to get Avenger into the right place.

 

An alternative trick for trying to get OLP/Avenger to work on a two ship combo, is a Vic II with OLP and Dominator, Dominator will allow you to get a blue dice crit at long range, at the cost of some shields, but you need Vader/Screed to have a real chance of making it work.

 

We all play casually with friends, apart from the time I wanted to hone a fleet for a competition, me and my friends have an unwritten rule, we do not play the same fleet twice, we have played many many casual games, with some of the weirdest combo's you can think of, just to see how they work, telling us all, "don't bother, I don't want tournament build advice." is not only rude, and arrogant, it is willful blindness on your part, we are giving this advice, because we have played this game for years, casually.

 

And you did ask for it, you know, we aren't coming in your local game store and putting your build down, you asked on the forum for fleet feedback. 

[tenchi2a 442]

1. that was not the intent of the commit it was to keep for having to here this will never work in a tournament which I already know.

2 You act as if I have not taken others Advice which the updated list shows to be totally wrong

3.Was trying to build a ISD fleet to fit the Death Squadron theme hence Darth Vader and all ISD, that's what a theme deck/fleet is and yet your first advice besides it will not work well is change one of the ships to a VSD

4. Ok so the Avenger title out right suck according to what I'm hearing so any advice other then don't use two ISD 

[Drasnighta 26,833]

4. Ok so the Avenger title out right suck according to what I'm hearing so any advice other then don't use two ISD 

 

The Avenger Title is right out awesome.

 

It doesn't need Overload Pulse to Work.

 

Essentially, one of two things happens when you put Avenger on the Table:

1)  Your Opponent Stresses out over Avenger being able to do his thing, so never spends his Defense Tokens against the rest of your List that is threatening him...  In which case, indirectly, Avenger has upped your overall damage...  Good day.

 

2) Your Opponent ignores the hell out of Avenger, and does his usual thing, spending Tokens against anyone who attacks him...  Which opens up Avenger to being able to slam really heavy attakcs home.  Directly, Avenger has upped your overall damage...  Good day.

 

 

 

The moral of the story is, have a way to deal damage to your opponent reliably other than Avenger, and Avenger is awesome.  it doesn't have to be Overload Pulse, overload Pulse is Pure and utter unadulterated overkill (Maxim 37)...  

 

That is why people recommend the things they do.

 

If you can find a way to do that, reliably...  Goldmine.  But one must focus on ones limitations then in order to minimise them.  Minimise, not remove completely - especially in a themed list, a themed list is often defined by its limitations as much as it is by its inclusions

 

Limitations of Twin ISD, are generally, catalogued as follows:

Flying Close together to overlap arcs means careful maneuvering is required.

Flying two Large ships as your main activations means you're effectively telegraphing your moves to your opponent.

Darth Vader pressures you to use Defense Tokens aggressively, which are generally considered essential to survival.

 

But other things can be added:

Hearty Carrier/Bomber activations are a great way to lay on either Damage or Opponent Token Usage.  Even beyond the telegraph of who is doing what first...  There is the WW2 quote that "Quantity is a Qualify all of its own..."   No reason why you can't ahve the best of both words...  (Quality in the Star Destroyers).

[tenchi2a 442]

 

4. Ok so the Avenger title out right suck according to what I'm hearing so any advice other then don't use two ISD 

 

The Avenger Title is right out awesome.

 

It doesn't need Overload Pulse to Work.

 

Essentially, one of two things happens when you put Avenger on the Table:

1)  Your Opponent Stresses out over Avenger being able to do his thing, so never spends his Defense Tokens against the rest of your List that is threatening him...  In which case, indirectly, Avenger has upped your overall damage...  Good day.

 

2) Your Opponent ignores the hell out of Avenger, and does his usual thing, spending Tokens against anyone who attacks him...  Which opens up Avenger to being able to slam really heavy attakcs home.  Directly, Avenger has upped your overall damage...  Good day.

 

 

 

The moral of the story is, have a way to deal damage to your opponent reliably other than Avenger, and Avenger is awesome.  it doesn't have to be Overload Pulse, overload Pulse is Pure and utter unadulterated overkill (Maxim 37)...  

 

That is why people recommend the things they do.

 

If you can find a way to do that, reliably...  Goldmine.  But one must focus on ones limitations then in order to minimise them.  Minimise, not remove completely - especially in a themed list, a themed list is often defined by its limitations as much as it is by its inclusions

 

Limitations of Twin ISD, are generally, catalogued as follows:

Flying Close together to overlap arcs means careful maneuvering is required.

Flying two Large ships as your main activations means you're effectively telegraphing your moves to your opponent.

Darth Vader pressures you to use Defense Tokens aggressively, which are generally considered essential to survival.

 

But other things can be added:

Hearty Carrier/Bomber activations are a great way to lay on either Damage or Opponent Token Usage.  Even beyond the telegraph of who is doing what first...  There is the WW2 quote that "Quantity is a Qualify all of its own..."   No reason why you can't ahve the best of both words...  (Quality in the Star Destroyers).

 

so would it work better if I made the 2nd ISD into a ISD 1 and made it a fighter carrier?

dropping OP and adding mostly fighter support upgrades and turning avenger into a major combat monster? 

[tenchi2a 442]

Hows this instead

also should I drop Electronic Countermeasures on the Avenger for another Expanded Hangar Bay or leave it?

 

Death Squadron   
Author: tenchi2a

Faction: Galactic Empire 
Points: 398/400 

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery 
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost 
Navigation Objective: Minefields 

 

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Admiral Motti  ( 24  points) 
-  Avenger  ( 5  points) 
-  Veteran Captain  ( 3  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
-  SW 7 Ion Batteries  ( 5  points) 
= 164 total ship cost

 

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Relentless  ( 3  points) 
-  Wing Commander  ( 6  points) 
-  Flight Controllers  ( 6  points) 
-  Expanded Hangar Bay  ( 5  points) 
= 130 total ship cost

 

4 TIE Interceptor Squadrons ( 44 points) 
5 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 40 points) 
1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points) 

Edited August 4, 2016 by tenchi2a