Question for Gamemasters regarding Acquisitions and Sacrificing Influence

[Radish 42]

I have a question for people who have more experience running this game.  This is in reference to the rule where a player can auto succeed at a requisition test by sacrificing D5 influence.  It is discussed in this rules question thread here:

 

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/123950-reducing-influence-by-1d5-to-auto-succeed-on-a-test/

 

My question is how do people handle this?  The issue I have is that this rule allows for people to get the best, most exotic stuff in the game for possibly 1 influence which is crazy to me.  Yes there is the 2 subtlety penalty but that isn't any worse than if they were requisitioning a las gun and even if they roll a 5 that's not a bad trade off if they don't really need to requisition anything super important again.  I'm worried that this rule will destabilize the campaign either causing me to have to re-balance all the combat encounters on the fly to make them not pushovers, or create a situation where players that didn't abuse this rule are then left being vastly under powered.  It also removes a bit of the motivation to gear up a character if literally anything is obtainable immediately.

 

Do you guys as GMs:

 

a) create additional penalties for players thematically like "ok you got the best quality power armor now guys who made it want a favor at some random time"

b) limit the use of this rule somewhat, like if the combined test is less than 0% you can't sacrifice to get the item

c) remove it entirely (I'm leaning towards this personally)

d) require the player to actually sacrifice something as the blurb implies they are doing (like sending an ally off to die or making a harsh bargain they have to worry about in the future)

e) say this rule is not applicable to certain items (ultra rare and near unique stuff) 

f) do nothing and allow a best quality void gun at character creation because at the end of the day it doesn't really matter

 

I'd like to have a plan going in since we've never been aware of this rule before; it's kinda buried in the GM area and players mostly skip that.

[Cogniczar 567]

You, as a gm, have to provide the opportunity to gain the item first. For example, commerce or inquiry to find the vendor, and you already have a pre-determined result (this best-quality Bolter is available). The character can then roll for it, or then burn 1d5 influence. They don't just get to say, I want this bam!

[Gregorius21778 249]

Hi there,

 

to me it was always "option c)" while I was the GM of a DH2nd group. Then again, I did not really stick to the RAW in regard to gear and acquisition. [see this post on my blog if you are interested in the details].

To me a permanent sacrifice of 1d5 points seems HARD. It is the roughly the equivalent of the "Influence pay off" of a complete mission or two. On the other hand, getting unique gear with it is nothing trivial, either. If you don´t want to cast away the rule as such, at least put a limits of some kind to it [your "option b)" ]

Edited September 11, 2016 by Gregorius21778

[Radish 42]

Hmm..  From what you guys are saying it sounds like the way to do this is to have certain gear on a sort of secret list that is available and if the players search for that then they can take the tests but certain items (best quality exotic xenos weapons) obviously would not be found in a feral world bazaar.  I've had somewhat bad experiences with GMs constantly saying NO when you try to get anything more powerful than a stick from a vendor because they are so gun-shy about overpowered PCs so I am worried about becoming that kind of GM who is no fun.  I guess I should just play with what feels is fair while still having the guts to tell players that some things just aren't happening until the time is appropriate.

[Cogniczar 567]

Honestly not like that. Obviously aren't going to find implants on a feral or deathworlds, psykana equipment on a holy world. Making an easy inquiry test to find the item they want or harder based on availability and time isn't a tremendously hard task to do off a single roll. Then with common sense you say if that item they want would be there to begin with. If they find it, influence test with optional dialogue or burn some points. Easy easy. All it really boils down to is your willingness as a gm to allow certain items in certain areas,

I personally dole equipment easily, as the equipment my pcs want is limited by weight and scenario. Sure have had super combat characters, but then they have to best a social encounter and what not. Balance in a game equalizing everything.

[TheWorldSmith 49]

In my experience I've always ruled that not every item is available. There's no secret list, no real prior-thinking about it, but if the party is trying to find a Graviton Gun or a Storm Bolter then they just won't be able to at the time.

 

In order to spend the Influence (AFTER rolling, so that they can THEN auto-succeed on the Test, that you would actually roll to begin with) you, as the GM, are the arbitrator as to whether or not hey get the opportunity to roll in the first place.

 

You don't just let them roll for things when they like. As the GM it's up to you to decide whether or not they get said chance to roll - Hell, if somebody's asking around for Storm Bolters or Graviton Guns, that's going to lower their subtlety way more than just 2.

[Covered in Weasels 587]

From the core rulebook, page 268:

"When attempting an Influence test, before rolling, an Acolyte may choose to decrease his Influence by 1d5 in order to automatically succeed. If degrees of success are important, the Acolyte is considered to have achieved a number equal to his Fellowship bonus. Note that in situations where no test is possible, this use of Influence cannot be made: the situation is beyond even the Acolyte’s ability, or the item is impossible to acquire."

Basically, you need to have a chance of succeeding on the test before you are allowed to make it. Because of this, it's very difficult to acquire really game-breaking items early in the game, and doing so stunts your Influence growth over the course of the campaign.

[Radish 42]

Yeah but that is conflicted by the rule where a 1 always passes even in instances where there is a total negative modifier so you always roll for every test.  Either way I think you are right on that one.

 

Thanks for the input guys!  It's been really helpful.

[TheWorldSmith 49]

Yeah but that is conflicted by the rule where a 1 always passes even in instances where there is a total negative modifier so you always roll for every test.  Either way I think you are right on that one.

 

With that being the case, there is no conflict there, as we're suggesting that you might not even be able to make the rolls to begin with due to the item not be available in any way at all. If you allow your players to make the roll, you're accepting that it's possible & making the items available to them, and acknowledging that there's somewhere on that roll for them to succeed - even if it must be a Natural - 1.

 

I'm not seeing a conflict.

Edited August 7, 2016 by TheWorldSmith

[Magnus Grendel 11,674]

Exactly so. It's like handful of "advanced skills" that you can't test untrained.

 

Someone without the relevant Forbidden Lore/Linguistics skill is not going to be able to read Eldar no matter how much they screw up their eyes and concentrate because they can't read Eldar.

 

Anyone can try to pilot a Voss-Pattern Lighting Fighter. They'll probably (read: inevitably) crash, but nothing* physically stops them getting in the cockpit and pushing levers until they find the throttle.

 

It's exactly the same with acquisitions. Yes, you have inquiry and commerce out the wazoo and are prepared to burn influence if required. None of that will make a suit of artificer-crafted heavy power armour available in the underhive because there isn't one down there to buy.

 

 

Also, remember that they can and should be able to get hold of weird stuff like graviton guns and storm bolters - between missions, from 'home base' where the Inquisitor is, or through whoever their contact is. Rather than just burning influence, or just making it a dice-off, the best thing to do is make acquiring extremely rare and near unique stuff a roleplay 'event'.

 

The Inquisitor is just that; an Inquisitor. He can send you a whole bloody crate of good-quality graviton guns if he thinks it worth his while to do so. Explain to him why you need them, and you've got that lovely 70-point Inf at your disposal to roll against or burn.

 

The trick is to avoid them wanting to turn the game into an exercise in collecting exceptional rarity weapons; ideally you want to avoid turning the game into "we go into the underhive and shoot clearly defined bad people because reasons". That sort of game is fun, but I might recommend Deathwatch - or at least, Dark Heresy using Deathwatch Veteran reinforcement characters - instead.

 

The acolytes are intelligenciers and investigators - the Inquisitor has access to more than enough jackbooted thugs for kicking down the door once the correct door is identified. Whatever they may have in their emergency armoury at their base of operations, what they carry on a day-to-day basis is far more important. 

 

That's something to discuss with the players in an out-of-character, where-is-this-campaign-going sense. Subtlety is more than just an invisible stat. You cannot walk around a mid-hive (or even lower mid-hive) district in body armour with assault weapons and not expect consequences.

 

A best-craftsmanship stub revolver with a laser sight and amputator rounds is far more useful to the average dark heresy acolyte than a multimelta. Because you can carry the former without attracting a second glance, whilst you probably can't even physically carry the latter - and if you can you'll either have to act openly as the Inquisition to all and sundry (meaning you'll never catch anyone), or you'll have to fight your way though a fifteen man magistratum SWAT team every time you're seen on the street, before you even get to the bad guys!

 

 

 

 

 

* Except possibly the pilot whose fighter it actually is...

[MorbidDon 178]

I've made up a "light" system in which Subtly can be used like a currency...

 

Enjoy - Morbid

 

Definitions:

Assets = people you use who are nothing to you nor the big picture - they are born to be used by the Emperor! Ranging from house servants to lords...

 

Think "Rogue Trader" has a section about making henchmen do you dirty work... (same premise)

Generally for those not in the know; 20% "competency rating" is for like scrubs, 30% is like your modern day patrolling police officer, 40% would be a police detective (senior / vet), and 50% would be like war veteran who's still good enough to be redeployed and kick ass LOL (I have no analog other than "Dutch" from the Predator Movie lol)

 

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Gear & Subtly (Future Deployment)

Granted the gear "outlaid" or provisioned unto the acolytes is "expected" to see them through their course.

 

But without merchants and or the ability to "buy" greater forms of gear - the quartermaster takes up the mantle (OR whomever)

 

How "heavy" do the acolytes want to go in?

This then for the GM can set the "bar" as to how combat heavy the mission

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by MorbidDon