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ParaGoomba Slayer

Palpatine is a poorly designed card

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To be fair, he's not 8 points, he's 29+ points. The two-crew-slot stipulation means he's limited to just a pair of ship options in the game (excluding epic), and they're often not ships you'd otherwise take. A Doomshuttle saw rare play, but beyond that the Lambda was all but forgotten until Palp rocked in with a fancy swivel chair. He sometimes appears on a Decimator, but doing so means you're often reduced to a two ship list as a result.

Those 29+ points preclude other ships from being taken to a degree that you're building a list around fitting him in, rather than adding a crew to a ship you'd have taken anyway. Yes, he's powerful but you seriously pay for that power.

That Lambda is not a waste of 21 points. You're not seriously paying for that power, you're only paying 8 points. So when he triggers a bunch of times and you get 38 points of value from him, you've flown a 130 point list.

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Palpatine needs to meet Yoda and Jabba.

 

The End.

 

What if we actually fixed something for once instead of band-aiding some stupid fix card over the problem that's almost as bad? Let's not fill the game with more overpowered nuanceless universal effects.

 

I hate turrets and all, but I kind of wish autothrusters was less of a thing so we could go back to damaging things at range 3.

Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer

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Palpatine needs to meet Yoda and Jabba.

 

The End.

 

What if we actually fixed something for once instead of band-aiding some stupid fix card over the problem that's almost as bad? Let's not fill the game with more overpowered nuanceless universal effects.

 

I hate turrets and all, but I kind of wish autothrusters was less of a thing so we could go back to damaging things at range 3.

 

But...But.... Soontir?  What would poor Soontir do?..... :P

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Can you just make this post your signature?

I feel like that's a much simpler way to spam your rhetoric.

What an excellent argument, point out how often I make these points instead of actually addressing them.

***** please! Your points have been addressed a thousands times. People get tired the address the same point over and over again. If in your head you win a discussion with repeating the point until you start to get ignored … more power to you, because at least you are enjoying yourself.

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Got whipped by them pretty handily again recently, eh PGS?

I'm one of the only Palp Aces players in my area. I play it specifically because it's broken, and to keep track of how much value I get from Palpatine each game in order to prove just how broken he is.

Of course, when presented with this data, the response was that flying a 9 health Vessery or 6 health Inquisitor wasn't worth anything.

What's your mathematical formula for comeing up with new titles for the same thread every few days? Edited by EasyE

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Can you just make this post your signature?I feel like that's a much simpler way to spam your rhetoric.

What an excellent argument, point out how often I make these points instead of actually addressing them.
***** please! Your points have been addressed a thousands times. People get tired the address the same point over and over again. If in your head you win a discussion with repeating the point until you start to get ignored … more power to you, because at least you are enjoying yourself.

Perhaps maybe I am being bone headed. Link to a time my arguments about Palp Aces were defeated?

I remember KineticOperator called me out once about how wave 3 Joustwing wasn't as varied as wave 7 Acewing. That was pretty effective, almost admitted I was wrong, then I played a game against a Soontir Palp Deci where I scored 4 hits and my opponent converted blank blank focus into 4 evade results with his one health Soontir and I realized that I was in fact correct and that the game was better off with less variety but more core gameplay instead of Boostwing with invincible ships.

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Palp Shuttle vs. TIE Shuttle with Fleet Officer and Systems Officer. Palp Shuttle, no contest.

 

I normally don't like to drag myself into these discussion, but....

 

I went 4-2 at the Vancouver regional with a officer shuttle, making 16th out of 80-some players. My list:

 

Rexler Brath (39)

TIE Defender (37), Tractor beam (1), Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/D (0)

“Mauler Mithel” (18)

TIE Fighter (17), Veteran Instincts (1)

“Scourge” (18)

TIE Fighter (17), Veteran Instincts (1)

Gamma Squadron Pilot (24)

TIE Bomber (18), TIE Shuttle (0), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1), Systems Officer (2), Fleet Officer (3)

 

In fact, not only did I beat every Imperial aces list I came up against, I beat a Palp aces list with it as well. Turns out having 5 attacks does a pretty good job of wearing down modifiers, especially when every one of my ships has at least two. I even ended up using Rexlar's ability multiple times.

 

After having used it fairly extensively since it came out, I think I like it more than Palpatine. It's also cheaper, which means I can take more ships. It gives way more in the way of modifiers, and I have found that the range restriction is not nearly the handicap people make it out to be.

Edited by DarkArk

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So what is it you want?

What would make you happy?

Obviously ffg can't errata a point cost.

Do you want them to ban the card?

What is it you expect from posting this so often?

Yes it's a powerful card, buy he's not alone. IMO zuckass is just about as bad. Like the emperor it's only good on one ship, but still to make someone reroll their evades? Happened a few times at our regionals this weekend. My opponent rolled two evades. I made him reroll them and he got blanks. It sucks being on that end, but again as strong as it is, there is ways around it.

In the imperial version. I never try for fel. When I do I most times lose. I tend to go for the other ship. It's usually easier to kill, and I'm not wasting my time with trying to catch it, or have him evade everything. Then I go straight for the shuttle. You have to target something anyway. Go for fel and you'll be pressed to get him. Go for his friend is a lot easier. Then the shuttle is more vulnerable, with only fel to defend it. Once that's out of the way, fel is easy peasy.

Also just to note the emperor is at his strongest with the less ships your opponent flies. If you have 4 or more then emperor is only going to work once out of three shots. Again don't chase fel.

Anyway I have no idea what you hope to accomplish by posting this so often.

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So what is it you want?

What would make you happy?

Obviously ffg can't errata a point cost.

Do you want them to ban the card?

What is it you expect from posting this so often?

Yes it's a powerful card, buy he's not alone. IMO zuckass is just about as bad. Like the emperor it's only good on one ship, but still to make someone reroll their evades? Happened a few times at our regionals this weekend. My opponent rolled two evades. I made him reroll them and he got blanks. It sucks being on that end, but again as strong as it is, there is ways around it.

In the imperial version. I never try for fel. When I do I most times lose. I tend to go for the other ship. It's usually easier to kill, and I'm not wasting my time with trying to catch it, or have him evade everything. Then I go straight for the shuttle. You have to target something anyway. Go for fel and you'll be pressed to get him. Go for his friend is a lot easier. Then the shuttle is more vulnerable, with only fel to defend it. Once that's out of the way, fel is easy peasy.

Also just to note the emperor is at his strongest with the less ships your opponent flies. If you have 4 or more then emperor is only going to work once out of three shots. Again don't chase fel.

Anyway I have no idea what you hope to accomplish by posting this so often.

1.) For FFG to make Palpatine cost one epic point.

2.) I don't seriously expect that to happen. But maybe if everyone succumbs to my reasonable arguments FFG will listen and something will be done about it.

3.) I don't disagree with you that Dengaroo is game breaking. But half the reason it and Zuckuss crew is so powerful is specifically because of Palp Aces and damage mitigation in general overcoming offense in general.

So when people complain about U-Boats or Dengaroo, they're falling for the illusion that they have a chance against Palp Aces, that their attack dice or maneuvers actually matter. A BBBBZ squad? Just as screwed against Palp Aces as it it against U-Boats or Dengaroo, it's just that with Palp Aces you have the illusion that you're playing the game, when in reality it's pointless because your opponent's ships are invincible.

4.) Again, I don't expect to accomplish much. Playing and talking about X-Wing is something I like to do in my free time, and I'm still not wrong.

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Too bad that you haven't figured out how to defeat Palp Aces...

You actually can't. Only way to beat it is to beat it in the list building phase and pretend that you beat it with skill instead of just matchup luck.

How would I beat my own Palp Aces squad that I consider to be the best one? Juke x7 Stealth Device Vessery, 31 point Inquisitor, and OGP Palp shuttle with FCS. I legitimately don't know how you'd beat it. The one time I've lost with it was to another Palp Aces squad, except it had prockets. Oh, and another time to a ~50 point Bossk party bus.

Pre-nerf Phantom had hard counters too and it still wrecked the game for a while.

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To be fair, he's not 8 points, he's 29+ points. The two-crew-slot stipulation means he's limited to just a pair of ship options in the game (excluding epic), and they're often not ships you'd otherwise take. A Doomshuttle saw rare play, but beyond that the Lambda was all but forgotten until Palp rocked in with a fancy swivel chair. He sometimes appears on a Decimator, but doing so means you're often reduced to a two ship list as a result.

Those 29+ points preclude other ships from being taken to a degree that you're building a list around fitting him in, rather than adding a crew to a ship you'd have taken anyway. Yes, he's powerful but you seriously pay for that power.

That Lambda is not a waste of 21 points. You're not seriously paying for that power, you're only paying 8 points. So when he triggers a bunch of times and you get 38 points of value from him, you've flown a 130 point list.

I disagree in part. It's not a total waste of points, but in terms of offensive power outside of Palp himself, it puts out minimal damage over the course of a game. Many palp players are incredibly conservative with the shuttle, holding it to the extreme rear for much of a game. You're sacrificing an independently useful ship, for one that - while toting a powerful ability - requires babysitting due to the enormous target on it's mainsail.

You're paying in both point and opportunity cost. It's insurance. If the ship carrying him was easier to protect/more defensible, or even offensively more potent, I'd probably be on board with him being a tad overpowered. Heck, if the Bomber Shuttle could take him, I'd even be a bit concerned about it, but the ships he's limited to become his limitation.

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Hey PGS so I'm trying to find a list that can beat Palp Aces. What do you think of this list?

 

 

Poe Dameron + R2‑D2 + Veteran Instincts + Autothrusters

Gold Squadron Pilot + R3‑A2 + BTL‑A4 Y‑wing + Twin Laser Turret

Gold Squadron Pilot + Twin Laser Turret

Bandit Squadron Pilot

 

Literally contains a winged object with boost.  You cannot win.  

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So what is it you want?

What would make you happy?

Obviously ffg can't errata a point cost.

Do you want them to ban the card?

What is it you expect from posting this so often?

Yes it's a powerful card, buy he's not alone. IMO zuckass is just about as bad. Like the emperor it's only good on one ship, but still to make someone reroll their evades? Happened a few times at our regionals this weekend. My opponent rolled two evades. I made him reroll them and he got blanks. It sucks being on that end, but again as strong as it is, there is ways around it.

In the imperial version. I never try for fel. When I do I most times lose. I tend to go for the other ship. It's usually easier to kill, and I'm not wasting my time with trying to catch it, or have him evade everything. Then I go straight for the shuttle. You have to target something anyway. Go for fel and you'll be pressed to get him. Go for his friend is a lot easier. Then the shuttle is more vulnerable, with only fel to defend it. Once that's out of the way, fel is easy peasy.

Also just to note the emperor is at his strongest with the less ships your opponent flies. If you have 4 or more then emperor is only going to work once out of three shots. Again don't chase fel.

Anyway I have no idea what you hope to accomplish by posting this so often.

1.) For FFG to make Palpatine cost one epic point.

2.) I don't seriously expect that to happen. But maybe if everyone succumbs to my reasonable arguments FFG will listen and something will be done about it.

3.) I don't disagree with you that Dengaroo is game breaking. But half the reason it and Zuckuss crew is so powerful is specifically because of Palp Aces and damage mitigation in general overcoming offense in general.

So when people complain about U-Boats or Dengaroo, they're falling for the illusion that they have a chance against Palp Aces, that their attack dice or maneuvers actually matter. A BBBBZ squad? Just as screwed against Palp Aces as it it against U-Boats or Dengaroo, it's just that with Palp Aces you have the illusion that you're playing the game, when in reality it's pointless because your opponent's ships are invincible.

4.) Again, I don't expect to accomplish much. Playing and talking about X-Wing is something I like to do in my free time, and I'm still not wrong.

But that's just it. It sounds like your gunning for fel from the start.

Let's look at a comparison

Fel with SD has 4 evades. With the emperor, auto thrusters, and evade action yes it's near impossible to hit with one attack.

Now let's look at Vader and Inquisitor. Since they are mostly commkn. Both have 3 evades. Vader has no auto thrusters, Inquisitor does. Neither are quite the dodgers that fel is. Both are using their first action to target lock. And second to re position, or focus.

So they are still going to be hard to hit Inquisitor even more so than Vader with auto thrusters. But they are most times using their action to target lock. Meaning next it's either barrel roll, boost, or focus. No matter which they pick, I've always found it much easier to pin point their final location and focus fire on them.

Then the argument comes up. "If you don't go for fel first you'll lose because you can't deal with him late game"

In my many games you can't deal with fel very easily from the stary, so chasing him from the get go is probably going to do more harm than good for yourself. Which is why I go after his buddy. It won't matter which you go for. You go for one the other is coming at you. It's going to hurt regardless, but again if you go for fel that means his other ship is on you while you chase and do no dmg to fel. So your taking dmg anyway. Go for the other ship, and now you can get dmg in so long as you don't play too dumb. Get a couple ships in Inquisitor, or Vader. Either way fel or his friend will be on you regardless which way you choose, but going after fel buddy first means less wasting your precious time doing no dmg while takin dmg.

So you go after fel buddy, get him off the board. Now, gun for the shuttle and just get behind it or out of its arc. Now you can burn him down while fel is frantically trying to hurt you as much as possible. Won't take long for that shuttle to die

Once it's out of the way, it's only fel.

If you do it the other way, and just go for fel, well unless you can absolutely block him or stress he'll run away and turtle up. Leaving you doing no dmg round after round, while you get pounded from behind. Like Jenna haze all you can do is take it lol while chasing fel around, and then game over.

My point is fel is tough. I agree. His buddies are not as tough. They have less agility because nobody runs SD on them. Inquisitor has auto thrusters, but still not to hard get him at range 2 unlike fel. Vader has no auto thrusters, and I find hurts a lot less than fel. Inquisitor same thing. Hurts a lot less than fel, get him off the board and get that shuttle off the board. Now fel has no emperor, and one bad dice roll and he's done. Even with auto thrusters.

In my experience it's only fel who feels invincible. Not his friends.

Edit

In all honesty with the game in its current state if you want to fly interceptors or any fast fragile ship you need the emperor. Unless you just want fly defenders, decimator, firespray, and tie swarms. There just so many things that would annihilate interceptors now.

Plus let's take a look what can deal with them even with emperor.

Ghost with autoblaster is not easy to escape from. Scum pain bot. Dengar rerolls. Feedback arrays.

Take away the emperor and with all that plus all the turrets, fat big ships and interceptors will be even harder to use.

Don't blame the emperor. The emperor helped them when all we say were fat dash and Hans around. C3po didn't help the situation any either.

The emperor will never cost 1 epic point I'm afraid. Frankly he sucks in epic in my opinion. Just too many ships. OK I stopped one dmg, I still have x amount of ships shooting. Epic is even worse for fel imo. I tend to use ties and tankier ships. Too mNy arcz on both sides. Even for fel to escaped

Edited by Krynn007

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I think Palp is slightly under-cost, 10 points would be better with his unlimited range or 8 points with Range 3. Overall though, Palp Aces is just the latest version of Imp Aces- they have always been darn good at dodging damage.

well with 3 hull on most ships do we have a choice

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Hey PGS so I'm trying to find a list that can beat Palp Aces. What do you think of this list?

 

 

Poe Dameron + R2‑D2 + Veteran Instincts + Autothrusters

Gold Squadron Pilot + R3‑A2 + BTL‑A4 Y‑wing + Twin Laser Turret

Gold Squadron Pilot + Twin Laser Turret

Bandit Squadron Pilot

 

Literally contains a winged object with boost.  You cannot win.  

 

Well, the joke is that that is Paul Heaver's worlds list from last year. Palp Aces was available at that time and a whopping 3 Palpatine's were in the top 32, one of which barely missed the cut, one of which lost to Brobots (which the aces of Palp Aces should have no problem with since they move after them, meaning Brobots should have "lost in listbuilding"), and one of which lost to Paul's list.

 

Now, perhaps the new Defenders put Palp over the top (and they very well may have), but to say that the Jumpmaster isn't what changed the meta to what it is and instead say the culprit is Palpatine, is misguided. We have data from a time when Palpatine existed and the Jumpmaster did not, and this data seems to show that Palpatine was far from the menace he is now as opposed to what he was then. 

 

Either way, I'm all for nerfs to Palp and Jumpasters. :lol:

Edited by Kdubb

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To be fair, he's not 8 points, he's 29+ points. The two-crew-slot stipulation means he's limited to just a pair of ship options in the game (excluding epic), and they're often not ships you'd otherwise take. A Doomshuttle saw rare play, but beyond that the Lambda was all but forgotten until Palp rocked in with a fancy swivel chair. He sometimes appears on a Decimator, but doing so means you're often reduced to a two ship list as a result.

Those 29+ points preclude other ships from being taken to a degree that you're building a list around fitting him in, rather than adding a crew to a ship you'd have taken anyway. Yes, he's powerful but you seriously pay for that power.

That Lambda is not a waste of 21 points. You're not seriously paying for that power, you're only paying 8 points. So when he triggers a bunch of times and you get 38 points of value from him, you've flown a 130 point list.

 

Honestly, the OGP Lambda by itself is one of the worst ships in the game. It objectively has the worst dial in the game. It has a front only firing arc, and if you get behind it, it takes the Lambda at least 3 turns to turn around. It's only purpose is to carry crew that can help your team. And with a single defense die, you can burn down those 10 HP really fast.

 

So Palp actually costs 8 plus the cost of the stupid shuttle to carry him. I mean, show me a SINGLE competitive list that uses the Lambda other than as a vehicle for Palpatine? No. No one uses that space cow to do anything other than hold Palp.

 

I have a friend in my meta who loves the design of the Lambda, so he keeps trying to use it successfully. Literally every non-Palp usage has been an unmitigated failure. So any argument that Palp doesn't cost 29 points is foolish. The added benefit of the actual ship that Palp sits on is almost nothing.

 

So since FFG is literally never, EVER going to errata a card that people paid $100 for, just stop. There are plenty of ways to beat a Palp Aces list, most of which involve blowing up the shuttle which you can accomplish in a 2 turns at most. Stop whining about Palp, there are LOTS of other builds/card that are overpowered when you look at all the cards in the game.

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Hey PGS so I'm trying to find a list that can beat Palp Aces. What do you think of this list?

 

 

Poe Dameron + R2‑D2 + Veteran Instincts + Autothrusters

Gold Squadron Pilot + R3‑A2 + BTL‑A4 Y‑wing + Twin Laser Turret

Gold Squadron Pilot + Twin Laser Turret

Bandit Squadron Pilot

 

Literally contains a winged object with boost.  You cannot win.

I like your defeatist attitude, you'd make a great postal worker. Give up at the start of the day and stop caring how long it takes to deliver the mail. Postal management doesn't care about me anyways, told them I was having trouble breathing and they told me to continue delivering the mail. Someone stole my ice cleats, and I almost went to the office to ask for another pair. Then I realized that I'd rather just slip on ice than risk having to talk to the post master.

Kdubb, with my Juke x7 Stealth Device Vessery, 31 point Inquisitor, and FCS Palp Shuttle, I could just focus down/arc dodge the stresshog.

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To be fair, he's not 8 points, he's 29+ points. The two-crew-slot stipulation means he's limited to just a pair of ship options in the game (excluding epic), and they're often not ships you'd otherwise take. A Doomshuttle saw rare play, but beyond that the Lambda was all but forgotten until Palp rocked in with a fancy swivel chair. He sometimes appears on a Decimator, but doing so means you're often reduced to a two ship list as a result.

Those 29+ points preclude other ships from being taken to a degree that you're building a list around fitting him in, rather than adding a crew to a ship you'd have taken anyway. Yes, he's powerful but you seriously pay for that power.

That Lambda is not a waste of 21 points. You're not seriously paying for that power, you're only paying 8 points. So when he triggers a bunch of times and you get 38 points of value from him, you've flown a 130 point list.

Honestly, the OGP Lambda by itself is one of the worst ships in the game. It objectively has the worst dial in the game. It has a front only firing arc, and if you get behind it, it takes the Lambda at least 3 turns to turn around. It's only purpose is to carry crew that can help your team. And with a single defense die, you can burn down those 10 HP really fast.

So Palp actually costs 8 plus the cost of the stupid shuttle to carry him. I mean, show me a SINGLE competitive list that uses the Lambda other than as a vehicle for Palpatine? No. No one uses that space cow to do anything other than hold Palp.

I have a friend in my meta who loves the design of the Lambda, so he keeps trying to use it successfully. Literally every non-Palp usage has been an unmitigated failure. So any argument that Palp doesn't cost 29 points is foolish. The added benefit of the actual ship that Palp sits on is almost nothing.

So since FFG is literally never, EVER going to errata a card that people paid $100 for, just stop. There are plenty of ways to beat a Palp Aces list, most of which involve blowing up the shuttle which you can accomplish in a 2 turns at most. Stop whining about Palp, there are LOTS of other builds/card that are overpowered when you look at all the cards in the game.

Actually your wrong.

The shuttle is not the worst ship. In fact it use to be one of the best. Not so much any more, but still for 21 pts (as much as a rookie XWing) you get a 3 attack dice ship. 5hull 5shields, for a total of 10 HP. 2 crew slots canon, and sensor slot. That's a pretty good steal.

Its dial isn't great, but it's not there alone. Plenty of pts to put in other stuff. Ya we have U-boats now but having 1 shuttle fill a role it's still a pretty awesome ship. Even without the emperor. If you disagree then your using it wrong

Have you ever flown against a 4 shuttle and tie build. In the right hands it be nasty. one shuttle in its own isn't effective, it's what you run with it

In today's meta it may not be too **** hot, but it's by far not the worst ship. I've played against many shuttle builds and some of them very nasty

Vader is still a decent option on a shuttle

4 shuttles And a tie is a lot of ho to get through.

4 bombers with Prox mines and Vader shuttle was nasty.

I played against 4 shuttles in a store championship last year that had two tacticians on each before ffg ended that madness.

Just because your buddy fails does not make it the worst ship. I've seen them wreck face numerous times

Edited by Krynn007

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One way to beat Palp Aces is to stop having FFG release aces.  Love playing Imps, but reading today's news flash on the Shadow Caster just bummed me out that Imps just get yet another TIE fighter.  No smuggling compartments, no cool crew upgrades, no new large base ship, no way to drop clouds of debris.  Pew pew to the front, pew pew to the back, and a model that looks like half the other ships I'm flying.  Imp faction needs some bling that isn't another high PS starfighter for Palp-pumpin'.

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