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Firgus

Upsides of the ccg model?

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So everyone knows the blind buy model is the devil but I think there can be upsides to it as well.

1. The price of entry might be lower. I expect crap rares and commons to be quite cheap from third party resellers.

2. When you don't have access to all the cards you get more attached to what you do have than if you have all the cards and you could play anything. This one is hard to think of as an upside but it kinda sorta is. There's something kinda fun about having something that others don't have.

3. Better resale value. Unless the game stops being played. Or they power creep the value out of the older cards.

4. It helps the product differentiate itself from all the other products ffg is selling.

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If a store holds a draft tournament they get sales, players often get a discount. Stores that make money selling and supporting a game are more likely to keep promoting that game over a game that has only burst sales and then flattens out.

 

Stores (around here) don't do subscriptions to games, so I find every now and again I miss a pack and have to try an remember what I have and don't have. Because CCG's often have only a few releases each year I can better remember what I want and don't want.

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5. It promotes trading and the creation of a singles market that allow you to get exactly what you need for your deck and nothing more/less. No more complains about FFG "forcing" people to buy an entire Bespin Gambit box a second time just to have a playset of Wing Guards in Imperial Assault. You just go and buy the singles you need/want.

6. Collecting stuff that is semi-hard to get but still obtainable is just plain fun, the human brain is wired that way.

7. Easy out-of-the-pack draft and sealed play without the hassle of making draft cubes or pods or whatever. Get half a dozen mates together, every one of them brings X booster packs, order some pizza, have a fun night, maybe get some bonus excitement when someone opens a cool rare.

Edited by Don_Silvarro

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I'm excited about this model. I've always found it a little boring and anticlimactic buying fixed packs where you already know what you're getting and that it's identical to what everyone else can get. There are two ways to view that, of course, but I like the excitement of maybe pulling something cool or hard to find.

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Although I hate the blind buy random booster buying and it is why I got out of gaming many years ago before FFG pulled me back in with LCGs there is one thing I really really missed and that was draft. FFG's attempt to introduce draft into the LCGs was OK but there is just something for me about the format that never really worked with the LCGs. My hope is that this game has been designed with draft in mind. My plan right now is to buy the 2 starters and split a box of boosters with a friend, then if draft takes off in my area start doing that as my main outlet for the game.

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I don't know if drafts will be a thing in this game. Mostly because you could have no hero in the boosters you open. Although they could fix that by letting you use a hero you already own.

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I don't know if drafts will be a thing in this game. Mostly because you could have no hero in the boosters you open. Although they could fix that by letting you use a hero you already own.

 

There are usually ways around that, like including starter pack cards alongside whatever you draft, using any common hero, doing a separate draft of heroes etc. World of Warcraft TCG had you play a 60-card deck alongside a hero card. The hero card specified a class that determined some of the cardpool that was allowed your deck (ie. no Mage ability cards in a Paladin deck, but non-class creeps were fair game to everyone). It also had a special ability and a health value that varied between classes. In draft or sealed play, if you happened not to open any heroes (which was highly unlikely) or built a deck for a class you didn't have a hero for (slightly more likely), you were assumed to play a "blank" hero with no special ability and a fixed health amount that I can't remember off the top of my head. In MtG, no one expects you to play the lands you open in sealed or draft play, they are provided by the venue or from the participants' collections.

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I don't know if drafts will be a thing in this game. Mostly because you could have no hero in the boosters you open. Although they could fix that by letting you use a hero you already own.

In other games you would either bring your own starting character or the venue would be provided with draft kits by the company. The draft kits would provide the necessary required cards which would get distributed to the players 

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As in collectibles you rarely own everything it opens you for some more creativity for searching replacements. There's no such stupid feeling you see at the local tournament lot of 1:1 copy of every Tier 1 deck around. High rank tournaments are full of top decks, but at local level people come with really various ideas instead decks build in 2 min with help of most popular deck sites.

Edited by kempy

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If a store holds a draft tournament they get sales, players often get a discount. Stores that make money selling and supporting a game are more likely to keep promoting that game over a game that has only burst sales and then flattens out.

 

Stores (around here) don't do subscriptions to games, so I find every now and again I miss a pack and have to try an remember what I have and don't have. Because CCG's often have only a few releases each year I can better remember what I want and don't want.

 

 I wish this was still true in our area. Our local store charges more from Dice masters drafts than the product costs because of the "promo" kits. It's effectively killed the meta as no one will draft and the store will only host sealed play as they want to move product.

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I don't know if drafts will be a thing in this game. Mostly because you could have no hero in the boosters you open. Although they could fix that by letting you use a hero you already own.

 

There are usually ways around that, like including starter pack cards alongside whatever you draft, using any common hero, doing a separate draft of heroes etc. World of Warcraft TCG had you play a 60-card deck alongside a hero card. The hero card specified a class that determined some of the cardpool that was allowed your deck (ie. no Mage ability cards in a Paladin deck, but non-class creeps were fair game to everyone). It also had a special ability and a health value that varied between classes. In draft or sealed play, if you happened not to open any heroes (which was highly unlikely) or built a deck for a class you didn't have a hero for (slightly more likely), you were assumed to play a "blank" hero with no special ability and a fixed health amount that I can't remember off the top of my head. In MtG, no one expects you to play the lands you open in sealed or draft play, they are provided by the venue or from the participants' collections.

 

 

I like this idea, sort of how FFG has starter draft packs for AGOT and Netrunner LCG's with generic factions and runners / IDs.

 

They could easily make a draft pack starter that includes 4-5 battle fields, two different generic storm troopers and rebel troopers that could be used to supplement a draft.

 

I would expect drafts to go more like dice masters worked, open 3-4 packs, push dice to the center, draft cards one at a time passing left, then open 3-4 more packs and repeat going to the right. Grab the matching dice at the end,

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It's also way easier to create tournament prizes for a CCG that people actually care about.  You don't need to custom print shoddy quality promos, then ship them to every store, then have the winners wait 2 years for their price to increase... the stores can just run tournaments with more product as prize, since Collectible games tend to actually have a secondary market on which to convert excess materials to cash.

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One thing I see in this thread that I wholeheartedly agree on is the aspect of "making things work" because you don't own every rare. I think this kind of downward pressure on people who don't want to spend a fortune on buying one or two of every card produces WAY more deck creativity than in an LCG model. In fact, I think one of the main problems of SWLCG is that you just see the same things over and over and no one takes the time to try some crazy rogue deck because they don't need to. If you don't have the rares, you're forced to come up with something - like Trooper Assault or whatever - that looks terrible but actually plays quite well and is a lot of fun.

 

I look forward to seeing that kind of weird, Count Dooku plus Captain Phasma deck - or something...

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"Making things work"+L5R Clan Insignia on your forum account is a fun combination.  A large part of "clan loyalty" in L5R, which is what created the rabid fanbase that supported its existence well-past the concept's natural expiration date, was often predicated on making the CCG system work for folks.  A lot of people picked a clan or two to play, and traded away the stuff they opened from other clans for stuff for the chosen clans, solidifying their allegiance to those clans while simultaneously reducing the cost of the game.  It was an odd confluence of dealing with economic realities and asserting identification with fantasy faction.

Edited by IsawaChuckles

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One thing I see in this thread that I wholeheartedly agree on is the aspect of "making things work" because you don't own every rare. I think this kind of downward pressure on people who don't want to spend a fortune on buying one or two of every card produces WAY more deck creativity than in an LCG model. In fact, I think one of the main problems of SWLCG is that you just see the same things over and over and no one takes the time to try some crazy rogue deck because they don't need to. If you don't have the rares, you're forced to come up with something - like Trooper Assault or whatever - that looks terrible but actually plays quite well and is a lot of fun.

 

I look forward to seeing that kind of weird, Count Dooku plus Captain Phasma deck - or something...

 

This is partly true, with the LCG's the biggest problem is group think. I don't mind people trying decks off the internet but people get so honed in on the ebst deck possible refusing to admit the rogue decks and offshoots from the mainstream are A) viable options and B) healthy for the meta. Personally I avoid those mainstream decks in SW LCG as I find the oddball decks more enjoyable to play.

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1. Cost to Dabble- LCGs are a magnitude cheaper to play competitively then CCGs, but collecting an LCG casually often means still buying everything. The ability to dabble is limited as you can't just buy specefic cards if you'd prefer.

2. Drafting- CCGs tend to easily support drafting. Assuming Destiny does, and if it doesn't I think that is an epic level failure from FFG. Players like drafting, but more importantly stores like drafting. It means sales of product continue even after initial purchases. And stores being happy is important because...

3. Store Support- Venues are more inclined to support CCGs over LCGs. Maybe it's just familiarity with the product but it can be difficult to get a store into an LCG. They have way more SKUs to carry, and no chance for sales beyond the one buy. Stores are more likely to support a CCG with a game night because they feel getting those players in the door will extra sales where as an LCG won't.

4. Increased Availability- Because you get more venues involved CCGs tend to have more players then LCGs. You'll have more players to play with.

Edited by ScottieATF

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If a store holds a draft tournament they get sales, players often get a discount. Stores that make money selling and supporting a game are more likely to keep promoting that game over a game that has only burst sales and then flattens out.

 

Stores (around here) don't do subscriptions to games, so I find every now and again I miss a pack and have to try an remember what I have and don't have. Because CCG's often have only a few releases each year I can better remember what I want and don't want.

 

 I wish this was still true in our area. Our local store charges more from Dice masters drafts than the product costs because of the "promo" kits. It's effectively killed the meta as no one will draft and the store will only host sealed play as they want to move product.

 

 

Mate that seems to be a real pity.

 

However, the issue here is the way the store runs things, and has little to do with CCG being good, bad or otherwise.

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I really want to collect and compete with this game- I've been itching to try another FFG Star Wars game (I play the RPG, Armada, Imperial Assault but mostly X-wing) I always wanted to buy a case of cards and open em all and get all my cards I want... and then finding that one card I can resell or trade for something greater. I've seen dudes doing this with new MTG booster cases and making a killing money wise. I never played ANY non-standard card game, but lately I've been getting into everything Star Wars and I think this game might pull me in.

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I really want to collect and compete with this game- I've been itching to try another FFG Star Wars game (I play the RPG, Armada, Imperial Assault but mostly X-wing) I always wanted to buy a case of cards and open em all and get all my cards I want... and then finding that one card I can resell or trade for something greater. I've seen dudes doing this with new MTG booster cases and making a killing money wise. I never played ANY non-standard card game, but lately I've been getting into everything Star Wars and I think this game might pull me in.

Sorry to burst your bubble. If you are lucky you will break even on a booster box. And if you are really lucky you will make some money. Most of the time you will just lose money.

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I really want to collect and compete with this game- I've been itching to try another FFG Star Wars game (I play the RPG, Armada, Imperial Assault but mostly X-wing) I always wanted to buy a case of cards and open em all and get all my cards I want... and then finding that one card I can resell or trade for something greater. I've seen dudes doing this with new MTG booster cases and making a killing money wise. I never played ANY non-standard card game, but lately I've been getting into everything Star Wars and I think this game might pull me in.

Sorry to burst your bubble. If you are lucky you will break even on a booster box. And if you are really lucky you will make some money. Most of the time you will just lose money.

You won't make money if you buy the boosters at msrp. Stores that open boosters at their cost make a profit but even then they need to move a lot of the cards they open.

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CCG = you buy boosters that have random cards in them. here it is 4 common/uncommen and 1 rare/legendary

LCG = every product you buy got fixed cards and most of the time you only need to buy 1 product to get all the cards you will ever need

 

Draft= you open a booster, take a card and pass the booster to the next person. you do this until there are no more cards and open the next booster. after a set amount of boosters you build a deck from the cards you picked.

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