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RIP Talonbane Cobra?

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I don't think enough people gave the Kihraxz a chance, to be honest.

Man, I really tried. Took a 5 Kihraxz list to one of our local tournaments, used Talobane as  part of a "Scum Aces" list at regionals (/w Fett and N'Dru). What struck me about the latter list was how crappy Talonbane fared against Soontir and Vader, both of which are in a similar price and PS range. 

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I really like the idea of using them both. With Fenn there id imagen he would look a better target then cobra this would help him stay alive and both of them at range one with ps9 you could very easily clear most anything off tthe board before it can shoot you back.

That was my thought as well when FTSGEcko mentioned "why not both". The enemy on the other side of the board has a target priority problem.

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I don't think enough people gave the Kihraxz a chance, to be honest.  I've been flying it lately and it's been working out great for me.  Sure, it wasn't top tables blah blah blah....but it wasn't a bad ship to fly in a list, especially a cheap generic.

 

Vector Thrusters can give it the Barrel Roll it needed and I was looking forward to Fearlessness perhaps giving it a new life.  

 

I don't think anyone would want to take a cheap generic Kihraxz Fighter anymore.  The Fang Fighter just does it better in almost every way for about the same points.  

 

I can see Cobra being taken for the PS 9 aspect.

 

other way around, imo

 

see at 20 points, the Fang loses a shield and loses a point of PS (gets a fickle point of agility, which I don't count for much)

 

what it gets is maneuver options that allow it to block better but joust worse

 

 

so there's plenty of reason to take a K over a Fang generic, but Rau is basically just a far superior Cobra (not that that's a hard to thing to be, though)

 

they have the same base cost, but Rau simply has more options both through his ship and his ability

Edited by ficklegreendice

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to elaborate on cobra not being great because his ship and his ability are far too limited/restricted etc., which is bad both ito efficiency and because there's simply not much room for creativity, here's a silly example:

 

Fenn can give you six dice on Advance Proton Torpedoes

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Fen - AT, Fearlessness, title, Torps (4 point one that turns focus to hit)

Talonbane - Vectored Thrusters, fearlnessness, cloaking device

Teroch - AT, fearlessness, titlte

 

 

Fen and Teroch pretty much always get an extra evade due to title/auto-thrusters. Talonbane gets a little help with re-positioning and defense with the cloaking device. Everyone gets some red dice to throw!

 

If your really gutsy, and want a bit more tank, put Particle Accel on Talon with the cloak. but if you loose the cloak thats 2 useless points.

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Cobra, Fearlessness, Vectored Thrusters is 31 for some PS9 repositioning.  Throw in that 1 hard Turn and you just might surprise some people.

 

Do not underestimate shooting first with 5 dice plus a built-in hit.  Instead of arc dodging, you just eliminate their arc by removing them from the board.

 

 

Also, this...

 

 

 

Fenn Rau can get six hits at range 1.


So can Talonbane Cobra.

3+2 for range one, plus Fearlessness, Target Lock and OH HAI GLITTERSTIM.

Wave 9 is going to be such fun.

 

 

Agreed, going to be very fun.

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Kihraxz's in general are DOA. They would have been a strong ship in Wave 2, but the power creep has done them in. Even if you fly them perfectly, they just don't have the raw efficiency to out-shoot current tournament lists.

I'm on my mobile, can someone please embed the Dr Cox "Wrong" video from Scrubs here please? Thanks in advance

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to elaborate on cobra not being great because his ship and his ability are far too limited/restricted etc., which is bad both ito efficiency and because there's simply not much room for creativity, here's a silly example:

 

Fenn can give you six dice on Advance Proton Torpedoes

Fickle, ANY Scum ship with access to Torpedoes and an EPT can now give you a potential six hits from Advanced Proton Torpedoes. But - unlike TBC, who could potentially do it every time he shoots - they can only do so once.

What, exactly, is your point?

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to elaborate on cobra not being great because his ship and his ability are far too limited/restricted etc., which is bad both ito efficiency and because there's simply not much room for creativity, here's a silly example:

 

Fenn can give you six dice on Advance Proton Torpedoes

Fickle, ANY Scum ship with access to Torpedoes and an EPT can now give you a potential six hits from Advanced Proton Torpedoes. But - unlike TBC, who could potentially do it every time he shoots - they can only do so once.

What, exactly, is your point?

 

 

Fenn Rau can give you 7 if you take Fearlessness. His normal range one shots with Fearlessness are the same as TBC's. 

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I flew Cobra at a store championship and earned my bye there.  I feel people underestimate him slightly and that alpha strike works. Yeah, he isn't a soontir or something, but he's not bad.  Maybe its not always about what is the "cookie cutter" top tier and just want to fly something unique once in awhile.  Think outside the box.

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But Talonbane has also a doubled range 3 defense bonus

 

Which amounts to +0 green dice against secondary weapons. Fenn's +1 green die isn't a range bonus or agility die so he'll get it no matter what is taking a range one shot at him.

Edited by WWHSD

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I flew Cobra at a store championship and earned my bye there.  I feel people underestimate him slightly and that alpha strike works. Yeah, he isn't a soontir or something, but he's not bad.  Maybe its not always about what is the "cookie cutter" top tier and just want to fly something unique once in awhile.  Think outside the box.

 

This. I got second at a SC with him in a mindlink squad. I'm looking forward to saving two points by taking VTs instead of engine.

 

Also I think cloak is mandatory on him. It makes his opening moves great, and if he survives to the endgame makes him very potent 1v1.

 

 

 

But Talonbane has also a doubled range 3 defense bonus

 

Which amounts to +0 green dice against secondary weapons. Fenn's +1 green die isn't a range bonus or agility die so he'll get it no matter what is taking a range one shot at him.

 

 

While true, it comes up more often than you'd think.

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Fenn Rau can get six hits at range 1.

 

3+1 for range 1, +1 hit from fearless, +1 from his ability. And then 5 evades at range 1 as well. 3+1 evade from title +1 from ability.

 

This is like, the only actually really good ship we've seen so far from Wave 9. It's leagues ahead of both the ARC and the TIE/SF. 

 

The amount of stupid this is boggles my mind. It's actually aggravating. This ship will do more over the course of 1 game than the ARC-170 ever could, and it costs less. And it's pilots are better too. Why need astromech and crew when you just have everything you need already? At a high agility value with circular modifiers. Get within Range 1? Here, have a free hit result, a free evade result, and a free extra die when attacking and defending. All you gotta do is be at range 1 in their arc. The risk of getting into range 1 is that you can get hurt really easily. This risk is eliminated with it's 1 point title with no downsides, and the 1 point SCUM ONLY EPT(because why give other factions such a good EPT?) gives you a free hit when doing what that craft already does. It's cheap, effective, easy modifiers.

Meanwhile over with the ARC-170, Norra has to get both a target lock and a focus at the same time to get a one time use out of her ability(because once either one of those modifiers is gone there's nothing you can do with Norra's ability). Norra's ability forces you to build a list around her, because if you don't then you're really not getting any of the points back from it. The R3 astro forces you to gimp your primary weapon ONLY attack, is useless at low PS, and is 2 points. Rau's ability works whenever he's at range 1 of something, no question's asked. Shara throws away modifiers at 28 points base. Braylen works on RNG. The only actually good thing we've seen from the ARC-170 is the title. 

 

How is this fair? FFG seems to be laboring under the assumption that arc-dodger type ships need to be REALLY REALLY GOOD to an insane degree for some reason, possibly to "Compensate for it's inherent flaws" or something, but that ships(like the ARC-170) are inherently too good and need to be debuffed pre-release. Which is the opposite of what the meta is like. The Protectorate starfighter is the next ship that people will be calling a nerf for, i'm predicting it now. It's coming into a meta that could not be more suited to it. The ARC-170 won't necessarily be DOA, but it's not gonna be healthy, that's for sure. There's no reason to run it when something like the Protectorate exists. You managed to line up a range 1 shot on Rau with Norra and actually have the focus+TL on him? You managed to get 4 hits? Cool, well, Rau dodged 1 automatically, and he's still rolling 4 defense dice with a focus after that, so chances are you're gonna miss. And why does that happen, you ask? Because it has boost and barrel roll, and the ARC doesnt. And it's higher PS than Norra, as well. So it's gonna effortlessly dictate the terms of the engagement, because ships with repositioning are inherently better than those that do not have them. In a positioning based game, that is the way it works. 

 

Protectorate Starfighter: Invalidating ships, even ones that aren't out yet, since 2016.

 

I was having this same debate yesterday regarding Palp-aces.

 

Sure, Fenn Rau with all his toys has arguably amazing offense and defense.

 

However.

 

Just like with Palp-aces, once those tokens are spent and, with the Fang Fighter in particular, once you're attacking from beyond range 1, you have the advantage, especially while taking multiple shots. Naked dice are still naked dice, see the whole topic of this thread (Talonbane being dead). This is the thing people forget about aces: they can't live for long against a barrage of high-powered attacks, because their entire benefit is their dice mods. Those go away once tokens are spent. Bossk + another ace, like Kath or Boba, could easily chew Fenn Rau to pieces if they can stay back and both have decent shots.

 

Plus, if the Fang Fighter is supposed to be a hard counter against U-boats, it's a mild one at best. Sure, Rau could get in and block one, but properly flown, that doesn't have to create a daisy-chain of bumps.  They can still hang back and pump lots of damage onto it with 2 high-powered shots.

 

Focus fire is still a valid counter to almost everything. You can't compare everything 1v1, because some configurations like that situation more than others.

Edited by SgtSmithy

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But Talonbane has also a doubled range 3 defense bonus

 

Which amounts to +0 green dice against secondary weapons. Fenn's +1 green die isn't a range bonus or agility die so he'll get it no matter what is taking a range one shot at him.

Talonbane hanging back at range 3 is more survivable than expected - against primaries. Such a shame that it does'nt work against secondaries, one of the things making his life difficult.

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