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AT Leader

Dengaroo Tactics

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I have always liked Dengar as a character, and just finished reading Tales of the Bounty Hunters again. For mainly thematic, and some competitive, reasons I really want to play Dengaroo for a local tournament in a couple weeks. I am not 100% sold on a single list, and I am open to opinions on how to build it.

What do I need to know to fly it properly? What are some 'traps' to watch out for?

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i like Engine Upgrade and Gonk crew on Manaroo, it gives you the ability to run and away and regen shields similar to Corrin Horn lists ive played against. It takes a bit of getting used to with Lone Wolf on Dengar but i can see why the list is so strong, Dengars double tap ability can really be a pain for them to deal with. Im new to flying the list but i really like it. Dzwonek's list from Vancouver looks pretty solid and obviously did well versus the rest of the field.

 

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
July 16-17
Players: 71 (6 Rounds, Top 8 Cut)
List Juggler: http://lists.starwar...tourney_id=1879
 
Winner:
• Patryk Dzwonek (#3 Swiss, 25 / 945) - Manaroo (Push the Limit, Engine Upgrade, Gonk, Feedback Array, R5-P8); Dengar (Lone Wolf, Plasma Torps, Countermeasures, Zuckuss, Punishing One, Glitterstim, Overclocked R4)

Edited by The_Brown_Bomber

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Really has nothing to do with how it's built

The two greatest problems with the list are

1.) You lose either ship and you're sorta ****** unless you're in the REALLY late game when it happens

2.) No matter how efficient, dengar will have a hard time winning if he's a single 100 point ship. Gotta involve manny in a way that isn't just infinite focus (ie, block!!!!)

2 is easier said than done when lone wolf is involved



There's also a secondary issue of dengar being 100 points of the list's damage output, and if you don't get his ability that's a single 3-dice primary. That's ass no matter how you mod it (unless you're shooting at low health, high agility; low luck)

Though it looks like a choo-choo steamroll list, it's surprisingly flying dependent

Scouts for example will run right through dengar in a dice off

 

hell, I did it with two scouts and a HWK

 

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Dengar's stress aint got **** on TLT zuckuss

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Thanks for the heads up The_Brown_Bomber! I'll check it out!

Netlister asks the net which netlist he should netlist.

Just playing, no offence meant!

Almost didn't post because I agree with you! Can't fault you on that! I had been hearing about the list and then realized how thematic it was (doesn't play well with Attani Mindlink though). I have no problem admitting I am looking for a solution to save me time to play! Hopefully I can put my own, even little, spin on it.

Really has nothing to do with how it's built

The two greatest problems with the list are

1.) You lose either ship and you're sorta ****** unless you're in the REALLY late game when it happens

2.) No matter how efficient, dengar will have a hard time winning if he's a single 100 point ship. Gotta involve manny in a way that isn't just infinite focus (ie, block!!!!)

2 is easier said than done when lone wolf is involved

There's also a secondary issue of dengar being 100 points of the list's damage output, and if you don't get his ability that's a single 3-dice primary. That's ass no matter how you mod it (unless you're shooting at low health, high agility; low luck)

Though it looks like a choo-choo steamroll list, it's surprisingly flying dependent

Scouts for example will run right through dengar in a dice off

hell, I did it with two scouts and a HWK,

Dengar's stress aint got **** on TLT zuckuss

Ohhh....TLT Zuckess sounds great! Yet another reasons why I need a k-wing!

The first reason, and your comment about it being flying dependent, would be the reasons If I ultimately choose not play it. I am very much still learning how to fly at a higher level. Your second reason is why I came to the community to get opinions. I would likely go more of a Regen Manaroo route, and change Dengar's Lone Wolf to something else so I could use her with Feedback Array to block and do some damage.

Edited by AT Leader

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I have a very low opinion of gonk, esp on manaroo who's gotta use actions to pass focus while also blocking (if she's being used to block, which she should be imo)

Your blocking crew is int agent, and it's disgusting on your large base + incredible dial + roll (+boost I believe in dengaroo) jm5k.

Your action efficiency upgrade is k4 (generally with unhinged) or rec spec if you're utterly terrified of Wes jenson or Palob stealing dengars focus

But anyway it won't make list less flying dependent

Unless you run into someone who's never seen a left white 2sloop before :P dengaroo games are seemingly won and lost depending on whether or not you can accomplish those to bring dengars arc to bear

If people don't know how to deal with it, things can get pretty steamrolly

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The number one problem I see with people flying Dengaroo is that they actually fly Manaroo into the battle.

 

Don't do that.

 

No, seriously. It's not like most lists. Dengar has obscene efficiency by himself, assuming Manaroo can pass him tokens. If you run him with Overclocked R4--and assuming that you always get your revenge shot--Dengar on his own is worth more than a hundred points. If Manaroo dies, then he's just a super-stressed Jumpmaster.

 

Just keep Manaroo alive, and keep her running. Let Dengar do the dirty work.

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Yeah, fickle is wrong. You do not need manaroo to fight. Dengar is literally capable of soloing lists with her tokens and nothing else. That might be different in a triple scout match or afew others, but anything that relies on evades is fodder for dengar.

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Sorry, but I agree:  Dengar can solo lists via zuckuss.  Also that countermeasures makes a whole bunch of ships very near useless vs him.  And that first exchange is completely disheartening.  I've heard of dengar taking literally no damage from 100 points of ties/jumps/aces/4-dice attacks off of infinite focus, lone wolf, and 3 dice on all defenses.  

 

Bear in mind.  The guys in our area that play this have really "lucky" green dice.  If that isn't you, its a normal list.  

Honestly, its a normal list, but combine it with someone who's green dice are even slightly above average and its incredibly disheartening.  They'll basically roll 3 evades everytime after mods.  And even ace players with 4 or 5 green dice know that shouldn't happen. 

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oh, you're all approaching it from the perspective of people who don't have to constantly deal with bull green dice and therefore don't have to prepare mitigation AND guaranteed damage in every list ever

 

ah how I envy you all

Edited by ficklegreendice

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oh, you're all approaching it from the perspective of people who don't have to constantly deal with bull green dice and therefore don't have to prepare mitigation AND guaranteed damage in every list ever

 

ah how I envy you all

 

Hey hey.  Mine blank all the time.  =)  3, 4 dice, all blank.  

When I played the list, it was just mediocre.  Cuz my dice were blank.  And rerolled blank.  

My opponents roll natural 2 evades out of 3, and then lone wolf into 3.  (granted, this is how the build is supposed to work, with focus) And heaven forbid that opening turn you're at R3 or through a rock and all of a sudden its 4 green dice with REROLL and FOCUS forever.  

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My green dice love to protect me from modified PWT's but like to fail me when I only need one evade to live to make them burn next round. Usually chalk it up to Karmic Justice for my poor flying.

How does the list handle Defenders and Fat Rebel Turrets? We have a disproportionate percentage here.

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Potentially random thought here. You've got a few ships facing against Dengaroo. Would it be terrible to target lock Manaroo with your ships when they are facing Dengar? Sort of a deterrent maybe so your opponent thinks twice about passing that all important focus. Remain unfocused for the turn, OR suffer a lot of modified attacks, or worse, ordnance with chips.

Just a small thought I had. Would you change your strategy for that turn if you were the Dengaroo player?

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Potentially random thought here. You've got a few ships facing against Dengaroo. Would it be terrible to target lock Manaroo with your ships when they are facing Dengar? Sort of a deterrent maybe so your opponent thinks twice about passing that all important focus. Remain unfocused for the turn, OR suffer a lot of modified attacks, or worse, ordnance with chips.

Just a small thought I had. Would you change your strategy for that turn if you were the Dengaroo player?

 

If I was in that situation, it would certainly worry me. My decision would probably vary wildly depending on specific context.

 

But it would stress me out a bit. Could distract me enough for me to botch the next round or two, and put me into a bad spot. So yeah, I think it's a good idea. Especially since Dengar is the one to take down first, since once he's gone, Manaroo is effectively a Scout with one extra PS.

Edited by SgtSmithy

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Potentially random thought here. You've got a few ships facing against Dengaroo. Would it be terrible to target lock Manaroo with your ships when they are facing Dengar? Sort of a deterrent maybe so your opponent thinks twice about passing that all important focus. Remain unfocused for the turn, OR suffer a lot of modified attacks, or worse, ordnance with chips.

Just a small thought I had. Would you change your strategy for that turn if you were the Dengaroo player?

 

If I was in that situation, it would certainly worry me. My decision would probably vary wildly depending on specific context.

 

But it would stress me out a bit. Could distract me enough for me to botch the next round or two, and put me into a bad spot. So yeah, I think it's a good idea. Especially since Dengar is the one to take down first, since once he's gone, Manaroo is effectively a Scout with one extra PS.

If you're flying manaroo right, they aren't getting range on her to be able to target lock.

In the event that switching all those target locks would be a bad move, glitterstim that round.

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Why Dengar carries the Plasma Torps in most lists? Anyone know why/link to explanation?

Seems like a place to cut some points to possibly assist Manaroo.

Also, reasons for who should carry PainBot?

Right now Dengar seems to be the prevailing opinion, but seems like it could be used to help Manaroo if they target her?

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I don't know about the plasma torpedoes, I guess alpha strike vs anything with lower PS.

 

About the revenge droid, it is better on Dengar since he will be in the middle of combat almost all the time, and thus you get tremendous efficiency from that droid. If you put it on Manaroo yeah, when they target her (which they shouldn't be able to if you play correctly) you will get the occasional revenge damage, but that's it. On Dengar you get his shot + revenge shot + revenge droid, potentially on a single target. Simply the possibility of that forces opponents to hold back from firing or keeping their tokens for defense and not use them to modify shots. Plus the droid works out of arc so guys like Soontir Fell will have to deal with most likely 4 hits from a primary and if they shoot, a potential damage that cannot be negated. Plus on Manaroo you usually want PTL and the unhinged astro works wonders when you need to de-stress, not limiting your to forwards or lefts.

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Why Dengar carries the Plasma Torps in most lists? Anyone know why/link to explanation?

Seems like a place to cut some points to possibly assist Manaroo.

 

You fly Dengar into the First Exchange and grab a TL (you get double focus from Manaroo).

You fire, do some damage (hopefully), keep the TL.

 

Then they often fire at you & you fire back at your TL'ed target with a fully modded torpedo..

It is a huge boon against Large Ships and it wrecks/cripples most small ships.

 

I call it The Dissuader.

Edited by Keffisch

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you don't painbot Dengar in Dengaroo

Overclocked R4 is how you get infinite focus

you can painbot manaroo if you want

You absolutely can. It makes him even better endgame, and allows a bit more independence from Manaroo. Edited by AlexW

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you don't painbot Dengar in Dengaroo

Overclocked R4 is how you get infinite focus

you can painbot manaroo if you want

You absolutely can. It makes him even better endgame, and allows a bit more independence from Manaroo.

 

 

but then you're not scary -_-

 

the whole point of dengaroo is the complete independence of the consequences of stress-stacking from zukcuss and OCr4 (and stims) due to manaroo's ability giving you infinite focus and re-rolls essentially

 

any other list involving the two would be another list entirely

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Why Dengar carries the Plasma Torps in most lists? Anyone know why/link to explanation?

Seems like a place to cut some points to possibly assist Manaroo.

Also, reasons for who should carry PainBot?

Right now Dengar seems to be the prevailing opinion, but seems like it could be used to help Manaroo if they target her?

  

you don't painbot Dengar in Dengaroo

Overclocked R4 is how you get infinite focus

you can painbot manaroo if you want

You absolutely can. It makes him even better endgame, and allows a bit more independence from Manaroo.

Yes, it does, but then you give up your endlessly modified offense and defense. That means you also limit the usefulness of Zuckuss, because you need Dengar to get actions. If he doesn't, he's a sitting duck.

Pain Bot is great on Manaroo. Hard choice between that and Unhinged, though. Is rather be absurdly fast and get shot less often than try to damage my attackers.

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Is rather be absurdly fast and get shot less often than try to damage my attackers.     

      

Manaroo is definitely a Palpatine equivalent - the best defence is not being in the fight at all.

 

Overclocked R4 gives you unlimited focus, whilst (assuming she's got a Recon Specialist aboard) R5-P8 limits you to two focus tokens. Which is still a lot. But maybe not enough.

 

Quick back of a spreadsheet thoughts below:

 

Look at it this way - you always have enough focus tokens (if manaroo passes you two, easily doable) to have both your shots modified. And at PS9 you generally shoot your own shot first. So it's mostly about green dice rolls.

 

Dengar with Lone Wolf gets 2 green dice with 1 reroll. This gets you an average of just over 1.6 evades with focus and just over 1 without. Meaning you take about 0.6 damage less every time you get shot.

 

By comparison, putting in R5-P8 means every time you're shot you deal an extra half a damage back.

 

Thing is, half a damage done is less than 0.6 damage prevented. And if you're considering fighting an enemy squad with Dengar essentially solo, he's almost certainly got less total hit points than 100 points of enemy ships, so a point of damage is more valuable to him than to the enemy.

 

Also also, R5-P8 only does hits one at a time to a random half of enemy attackers - so it's not as easy as you'd like to concentrate on one opponent to actually get a kill

 

Also also also, R5-P8 does a point of damage to you 1/8th of the time, which means that the net extra damage from not having the overclocked R4 is actually more like 3/4 of a point of damage per attack.  

 

Also also also also, this is purely assuming  2-dice evade roll - which since you've got the possibility of range 3 attacks, obstacles and your one-use countermeasures up your sleeve, means there will be a significant number of attacks with more than 2 green dice, where focus is proportionately more valuable.

 

So....yeah. I see the argument for both options, but I'd go with Overclocked R4.

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