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Silvanos

Bionic arms and unarmed combat

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Maybe...if he can argue convincingly as to how he should acheive it.

Bionic arms were always shown in the 6 million dollar man as giving vast strength, but the old Cyberpunk game, and Shadowrun, more convincingly argued that they had the potential to do so, but only if properly braced. Having a bionic arm doesn't mean you're able to pick up a car, because the arm is still attached to your (weak and feeble) meat body. Trying to pick up a car would probably lead to you tearing your bionic arm off and immediately going into shock from blood loss.

Actually the most convincing cinematic use of a bionic arm was (bizarrely enough) in the film I Robot. The Will Smith character had a bionic arm, and it was very useful to him in combat. He used it primarily as a crushing weapon, ie relying on its own innate strength (through its crushing grip) rather than as a strength enhancer.  

I reckon if your player comes up with a convincing technique whereby he can use the innate strength of the bionic arm (rather than his own strength) to give a bonus in combat, let him.

Also, it's worth bearing in mind that WH40K bionic arms aren't necessarily like sci fi staple bionic arms. Normal quality bionic arms will be ugly and heavy, but functional. They won't necessarily give greater strength than a "normal" meat arm, unless the player pays extra to have a better quality limb. 40K tech is astonishing, but not evenly spread. For every Imperial servant with a bionic arm capable of crushing a man's skull, there are ten with bionic arms that struggle to open a jam jar...    

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 It's worth noting that those with trouble opening jam-jars are probably having problems with co-ordination, rather than strength: they can get it "open", but only if you like your jam with broken glass...

Also- some bionic 'limbs' are only bionic joints acting as life-support for the organic portions of the limb below that (Ceglan Varl from the Gaunt's Ghosts novels, for example, has a bionic shoulder, but the rest of his arm is normal). Assuming that isn't the case, I'd say count the bionic'd character as having brass knuckles, at the very least.
If they have a limb designed for combat, and/or have a system of combat for it worked out, then I'd say count it as mono as well. Whether you let that stack with Unarmed talents, is up to you, of course, but I'd leave to a case-by-case basis, depending on how they use it.

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Actually, good-quality bionic arms grant a bonus to strength tests, which is not the same thing as actually granting more strength and does not grant additional damage.

Except for that purpose, bionic arms of even good quality replicate the strength of the original arm exactly, and so are identical to a normal arm in unarmed combat.

However, upgrades are possible. For example, the concealed weapon bionic in the Inquisitor's Handbook/

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Hodgepodge said:

However, upgrades are possible. For example, the concealed weapon bionic in the Inquisitor's Handbook/

Say that's an interesting thought. Let's say that you have two bionic arms with concealed weapons, and the weapons are some sort of blunt weapons protruding from the arms like closed fists (like a truncheon or a shock maul or something), and also these weapons are upgraded with the mono upgrade (or the equivalent for blunt weapons since the rules do permit blunt weapons to have "mono" as well). Once activated, they should give your punches quite an extra oomph in melee combat. gran_risa.gif

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I give a bonus for striking or grappling as for lifting its still attached to bone and muscles, they have a less stress tolerance than metal so it wnot help there.   I cant see him yanking a bolted steel door open without tearing and pulling muscles in his back, shoulder, and chest before the arm would even budge the door.

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Ignoring issues of strength and force behind the pouch, I'd add +2 to the damage dealt by hitting someone with a bionic arm, but not with a weapon held in the arm. After all, hitting someone with a steel fist has got to do a bit more then hitting them with a meat fist. I just took the stats for Brass Knuckles in DH (1d5-1, a 2 pt difference over no brass knuckles) and applied it to the arm (making it a +2 so it'll stack easily with the Unarmed fighting talents). If hitting someone with brass knuckles on a meat fist would have 2 pts more damage potential then hitting someone with just a meat fist, then hitting someone with steel knuckles on a steel fist (or claw, or what ever) should do at least as much. Heck, I'd even go as far as saying a Poor Quality arm could be considered an Improvised Weapon (1d10-2+SB, unbalanced [really, look at the things], primitive)... clubbing someone over the head with one of those has got to leave a mark.

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Graver said:

Ignoring issues of strength and force behind the pouch, I'd add +2 to the damage dealt by hitting someone with a bionic arm, but not with a weapon held in the arm. After all, hitting someone with a steel fist has got to do a bit more then hitting them with a meat fist. I just took the stats for Brass Knuckles in DH (1d5-1, a 2 pt difference over no brass knuckles) and applied it to the arm (making it a +2 so it'll stack easily with the Unarmed fighting talents). If hitting someone with brass knuckles on a meat fist would have 2 pts more damage potential then hitting someone with just a meat fist, then hitting someone with steel knuckles on a steel fist (or claw, or what ever) should do at least as much. Heck, I'd even go as far as saying a Poor Quality arm could be considered an Improvised Weapon (1d10-2+SB, unbalanced [really, look at the things], primitive)... clubbing someone over the head with one of those has got to leave a mark.

Yes , we are on the same train of thought ... :Dgran_risa.gif

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Another option would be to let them swap the normal effects of good-quality bionics for an effect which makes the arm count as a Natural Weapon, dealing 1d10 primitive damage. This would also allow it to be used in a Grapple by the RAW.

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Hahah, yeah.

I'd say mono might be a bit too powerful, though if you consider the benefits relative to the Unarmed feats. Making the arm a natural weapon replicates one feat, which is rather powerful in the first place, while adding mono replicates two.

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Well yeah, but beating someone with a large metal arm, specially upgraded to hurt people SHOULD be considerably more powerful than beating  them with a normal fist. Also, would that make swords to powerful, relative to the unarmed feats? Same thing really, pieces of metal designed to hurt people are at least as effective as shaolin training.

 

To balance it against the unarmed feats I'd probably opt to make the arm visibly weaponised when monoed. Spiked knuckles (literally), pneumatics that make the fist go jackhammer and such.

 

Hmm, that actually sounds rather nice, I think I'll add that to my players planned nemesis.

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If you've got a good quality bionic arm, then the bonus to Strength tests should apply to your Grapple checks, seeing as they are, after all, Strength checks. Then you can make Grapple checks to stab them with your Implanted Power Blades.

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Bending Arms said:

I cant see him yanking a bolted steel door open without tearing and pulling muscles in his back, shoulder, and chest before the arm would even budge the door.

However, how would you rule it if the PC has the Machinator Array talent? From the description I remember from Dark Heresy, the Machinator Array was basically a reinforcement of the cybermantle of a techpriest to such a degree that both strength and toughness got enhanced, and the techpriest's weight got tripled, and was also able to mount larger weapons on ballistic mechadendrites rather than the standard miniature las pistol.

To me, the machinator array sounds like it would reinforce the frame of the character enough to actually be able to rip steel door's of their hinges with the help of bionic arms without tearing the character's body apart (provided that they have enough pushing strength and succed their strength test that is).

I mean, superhuman strength provided by bionic arms combined with an anchor point weighing as much as at least three people would sort of come close tp door-ripping strength in my opinion.

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Add the manipulator mechandrite to anchor yourself to something for extra leverage,  the best quality muscle grafts and you're good to go. In fact, I'd probably skip trying to pry the door off it's hinges and just throw a car through the wall, for fun.

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Varnias Tybalt said:

 

To me, the machinator array sounds like it would reinforce the frame of the character enough to actually be able to rip steel door's of their hinges with the help of bionic arms without tearing the character's body apart (provided that they have enough pushing strength and succed their strength test that is).

I mean, superhuman strength provided by bionic arms combined with an anchor point weighing as much as at least three people would sort of come close tp door-ripping strength in my opinion.

 

 

I allow Centurius to buy Unnatural Strength(x2) for 300 XP [well, the sole one that has been in one of my campaigns as a PC].

Myrmidions are close to forces of nature... or perhaps, the embodiments of the Machine God's war face.

 

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TS Luikart said:

Varnias Tybalt said:

 

To me, the machinator array sounds like it would reinforce the frame of the character enough to actually be able to rip steel door's of their hinges with the help of bionic arms without tearing the character's body apart (provided that they have enough pushing strength and succed their strength test that is).

I mean, superhuman strength provided by bionic arms combined with an anchor point weighing as much as at least three people would sort of come close tp door-ripping strength in my opinion.

 

 

I allow Centurius to buy Unnatural Strength(x2) for 300 XP [well, the sole one that has been in one of my campaigns as a PC].

Myrmidions are close to forces of nature... or perhaps, the embodiments of the Machine God's war face.

 

I did similar with the Skitarii Praetorian/Centurion/Herculiani (as appropriate, the background I wrote allowed for any and all of the names to be used) alternate rank I wrote for Dark Heresy Guardsmen of Forgeworld origin. Of course, they had to buy Hulking before they could buy Unnatural Strength or Unnatural Toughness, but that seemed only appropriate...

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