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Absol197

Trends, Statistics, and Predictions!

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57 minutes ago, Absol197 said:

You're obviously new to this thread :D .

Not exactly. My comment was coming from a place of snark, but not directing at you.

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Just now, kaosoe said:

Not exactly. My comment was coming from a place of snark, but not directing at you.

I know; I was just remarking that jumping to unsubstantiated (if logical) conclusions is pretty much the only thing we do here nowadays :) .

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Oh, I'm fairly certain they'll wait until the three books in the pipeline are out so they don't risk losing any sales on those, but then we'll be back in for Star Wars RPG II: Repackaged & Inflated. And a million wallets will cry out...

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I don't think RPG 2.0 is coming soon. X-Wing had plenty of ships that never saw play because of many different things such as Pilot Score, low damage or lack of maneuverability. They simplified many things, made others complex nerfed some actions changed the action economy.

In an RPG is there ever really a way to gauge underplayed/overplayed things?  I think SWRPG 2E is still a few years away, mostly because RPG editions usually last longer than War gaming editions due to the competitive nature of the latter.

Edited by Shlambate

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15 hours ago, 2P51 said:

We are seeing 2.0.  It's called Genesys.

That won't bring them in as much money as a 2e relaunch with multiple redundant core books each selling for high $ only to then be followed by all new splats for even more $. New beginners sets would be a no-brainer, and perhaps even a slight alteration of the dice so those can be resold too!

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11 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

That won't bring them in as much money as a 2e relaunch with multiple redundant core books each selling for high $ only to then be followed by all new splats for even more $. New beginners sets would be a no-brainer, and perhaps even a slight alteration of the dice so those can be resold too!

Except you tend to lose a good portion of your fan base when you senselessly relaunch a product that is still viable as a cash grab. Given the margins they currently have I don’t think they are gonna want to try and sell a second CRB for three lines to a, let’s say optimistically, 70% share of their existing client base. There is no need and fans know this. When they eventually finish filling in all the career books, region books and era books... then they may want to look at what their future plan is, but doubtlessly they are cognizant that a shift of that magnitude 1/2 way thru a product’s life span would be a terrible idea. 

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1 minute ago, Khazadune said:

Except you tend to lose a good portion of your fan base when you senselessly relaunch a product that is still viable as a cash grab. Given the margins they currently have I don’t think they are gonna want to try and sell a second CRB for three lines to a, let’s say optimistically, 70% share of their existing client base. There is no need and fans know this. When they eventually finish filling in all the career books, region books and era books... then they may want to look at what their future plan is, but doubtlessly they are cognizant that a shift of that magnitude 1/2 way thru a product’s life span would be a terrible idea. 

I think we are way past halfway when taking about this RPG's lifespan.

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25 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

I think we are way past halfway when taking about this RPG's lifespan.

Really? I don’t. We don’t have any content from the Resistance Era, any content from the Old Republic, nothing from the Clone Wars. We have region books on Corellia and Hutt Space, but are missing huge swaths of Core, Outer, Wild and Unknown Space. We have a few published adventures but there is really no end to them.... and our universal classes, which can be seen as this system’s prestige classes of a sort, we have 3 relating to Force exiles, Pirate, ship captain, Imperial cadet, retired clone, Padawan Survivor, Force adherent and recruit. In a universe as huge as Star Wars that’s barely scrapping the surface. We have no compendium’s of gear, weapons, Armor, ships, Droids or planets (except @Nytwyng‘s creation, thanks!) We have very few scattered animals and really an under utilized animal companion arrangement... we know nothing about the Chiss Ascendency world’s or of Imperial Remnant holdouts after Endor (like the fanmade Anoat sector Book, thanks @Quelthan ). Yeah, you may feel like it’s time to go over the same ground for a few fixes and rules clarifications but I will contend that’s what reprints and errata’s handle while we focus on getting more content. Not to mention expanding the base careers with the inclusion of a Pathfinder style Advanced Class (read career) book. Which then open up a new slew of career books. AND, there is the outstanding species... @Yaccarus has been working on a more complete collection that I could see being replicated by FFG further down the line, thanks for that btw.

Books like @andynorton‘s podracing world’s would be examples of other niche content that I could see getting treatments to build in additional layers of a lived in universe. 

@Absol197, how many total outstanding books based on the numbering do we have yet remaining from the initial proposal? 

Edited by Khazadune
Added in thanks to fan content creators

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4 minutes ago, Demon4x4 said:

What do you think of the possibility of them coming out with a fourth line (and what that might look like), rather than a full reboot?

It will depend entirely on the $ they can make. It's actually better to put out a new edition before fleshing out everything so that you can bait in your customers with promises beyond just repeating the same stuff. Then you spread that new stuff thinly while packing in the repeated material to make page counts.

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8 minutes ago, Demon4x4 said:

What do you think of the possibility of them coming out with a fourth line (and what that might look like), rather than a full reboot?

High, given Dawn of Rebeliion is the first in that line. A mix of Species, Equipment, Specialisations, Plot Hooks and so on, aimed at all three lines.

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Another point to consider in terms of a second edition is how many changes does FFG think are really needed to warrant a full-blown new edition of the game?

In every case when a new edition is released and there's been substantial changes, there's going to be contingent of the fanbase that sticks with the older edition simply because it's what they know and what they've already invested heavily in, both with regards to time and especially these days finances.  D&D has seen it with each new edition (the divide between 3e and 4e being one of the most drastic), Pathfinder is showing some early signs of it with their new edition (amusing given that much of Paizo's success was built upon catering to the D&D 3e crowd that didn't want to transition to 4e), and Star Wars has seen it since the WEG d6 days, with a substantial contingent of SW gamers sticking with d6 even though it's been years out of print.  There's already grumblings about X-Wing moving to a second edition, with folks deciding to stick to the 1e rules that they know so well rather than convert to the new rules, even if the physical minis (the most expensive part of the game) they've purchased are still perfectly viable.

If the degree of changes they feel are truly needed are minor or primarily cosmetic, such as incorporating the errata, then the odds of getting a full-blown second edition are fairly low, and we're more like to get a "revised edition" of the core rulebooks that incorporates those tweaks, with maybe a few "lessons learned" from Genesys such as using Vigilance to opposed Deception or revamping how a few talents work, while still keeping pretty much everything else from the current version, such as careers, specializations, Force powers, and perhaps the bulk of starship combat.

When Sam was talking with the folks of the The Dice Pool podcast about designing Genesys, one of the things Sam mentioned that applies to Star Wars is that the talent trees help form an identity for the character, something you can more easily do for a specific genre and setting but is very difficult when building a generic system that's meant to cover more than one genre.

As Khazadune said, in terms of potential resources to pull from, FFG has just barely scratched the surface, with Dawn of Rebellion being their first foray into a line-neutral era-based esource, and from what I've seen and heard had proven successful enough to warrant future such types of books, presumably for other eras they've not really tapped into, such as Clone Wars and the sequel era, especially once the ninth movie is released and Star Wars: Resistance has started airing.  Plus, there's adventure books, so it's not like the lines are "done" once the last of the career supplements gets published.

And yes, FFG is going to have weigh whether they'll make enough money with a new, radically changed edition of SWRPG to warrant losing the established customer base that has already purchased much of the books released under the older edition.  Given the nature of the gaming industry, it wouldn't surprise me that the RPG is by far the least profitable, and the one that FFG may be least hesitant to rock the boat on given that the license undoubtedly costs a pretty penny and there are sure to be other companies chomping at the bit to snag said license for themselves, and with it the revenues that would come from the card and minis games, which traditionally are far more profitable than the RPG portion of the license.  As the story goes, the only reason WotC even bothered hanging onto the license after the RCR petered out was that their collectible minis line was bringing in a substantial amount of money, and Saga Edition was ultimately more of a "eh, why not give the RPG another shot, see if this time it sticks?" and even then it was a low priority for WotC in terms of company resources (not surprising when your company's major IP is the grand-daddy of all RPGs).

There's also the matter of "if it's not broke, why try to fix it?"  Again, if from FFG's point of view (arguably the most important since they're the ones that would have to invest time and money into the creation of a new edition) there's not enough to warrant an entirely new edition of the game, why do so?  As I mentioned earlier, if the only things really needed (from their POV) is minor tweaks and updates, then it's easier to either do a "revised" version much as WEG did with 2e Revised & Expanded, or just simply sneak the errata updates into later printings, such as WotC did with the Saga Edition core rulebook.  Plus, with just doing a "revised" version it'd be a simple matter to release a free PDF on their web page to say "hey, here's the various tweaks we made to the rules, but for the most part, those books you shelled out a pretty penny for are still perfectly valid from both a crunch and fluff perspective."

Plus, there's Genesys to consider, and an in-house IP tends to draw a higher priority from a company than a licensed one, as the profit margins are better (no pesky licensing fees), and as their newest hot property is likely going to be drawing a lot of their in-house resources to work on various setting/theme-based supplements, which also may reach a broader audience than an RPG based upon one specific setting, one that a contingent of the RPG market has zero interest in spending money, either due to not caring about the Star Wars franchise or because they've got a preferred source that's not FFG to get their SW gaming fix.  And much like WotC with regards to Saga Edition, it may come down to which game lines the FFG upper brass feel is most deserving of the department's finite resources, and if the Genesys wave keeps riding high, it might be the Star Wars RPG line that gets a lower priority, which in turn means less chance of a second edition and perhaps more likely the line simply winds down with only the occasional supplement, likely an era-based book such as Dawn of Rebellion or setting-based tomes such as Lords of Nal Hutta or Suns of Fortune, which themselves could be done as line-agnostic much as Dawn of Rebellion was.  After all, if Genesys has the same sales numbers as the Star Wars books but a higher profit margin thanks to being an internally-owned IP, it makes sense for FFG to focus more of their efforts on the more profitable product line, since they're a for-profit company.

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2 hours ago, Darzil said:

High, given Dawn of Rebeliion is the first in that line. A mix of Species, Equipment, Specialisations, Plot Hooks and so on, aimed at all three lines.

A product aimed at all three lines, while encouraging, isn't really the same thing as a fourth line.

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I wouldn't be too surprised if we get another EotE book sooner or later with six new Specializations, one for each career (and potentially something similar for the other lines).  Between a few books like that, new era books, new location books, and new adventures, I think there's plenty of life left in the current Star Wars game with no need for a reboot.

Any issues that have become apparent with the Star Wars RPG rules are nowhere near what X-Wing had.  Ultimately, I think FFG was completely unprepared for X-Wing to be anywhere near as popular as it turned out to be.  The original design of the game just wasn't robust enough to support 14 waves of product, 50+ ship types, and all the different extra actions, rules, and mechanisms that were needed to differentiate all that content.  It led to some serious errata, a meta that jumped from one negative play experience to another, and a convoluted FAQ.  The game as originally published lacked the concise timing rules and effect templating necessary to support large scale competitive play, and every attempt to fix that was just bolted on. It was designed as a light, beer-and-pretzels game that was probably not expected to last more than 3 or 4 waves.

I think the change-over to X-Wing 2E will be absolutely positive for the game and I think it really was necessary.  However, I just don't see those same needs in the RPG line.  On a slightly separate note, the degree to which FFG is offering conversion kits and other assurances about smoothing the transition from X-Wing 1E to X-Wing 2E does help me feel good about any future edition changes in their other product lines, RPGs included.

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12 hours ago, Dr Lucky said:

On a slightly separate note, the degree to which FFG is offering conversion kits and other assurances about smoothing the transition from X-Wing 1E to X-Wing 2E does help me feel good about any future edition changes in their other product lines, RPGs included.

Conversion guides for RPGs are generally mourned in the absence but ridiculed or ignored when they appear because they rarely give results that are widely considered pleasing.

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On 5/6/2018 at 6:28 AM, Khazadune said:

Really? I don’t.

Viewed from the current license, I think we're past it.  Nothing says they won't retain their license, but the smart planners probably didn't want to dedicate resources beyond the initial period which ends in 2021 I believe.  Your case has great merit and I hope you're right, but I hesitate to attribute such logical conceptions to a gaming company's business plan. :)

 

Edited by themensch
post-coffee spelling and clarity edits

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