Collision Detector

[IG88E 1,688]

"When performing a boost, barrel roll, or decloak, your ship and maneuver template can overlap obstacles.

When rolling for obstacle damage, ignore all crit results."

So I can LAND on an debris field at the end? Or ist the rule just when PASSING THROUGH an obstacle?

[WWHSD 9,273]

There is nothing on Collision Detectors that would lead me to believe that you couldn't land on an obstacle. The only way that your ship would ever even overlap an obstacle is if you were going to land on it.

[DailyRich 3,346]

And since the only way a debris field can hurt you is by rolling a crit and Collision Detector lets you ignore those anyway, if you've got a way to manage the stress, there's no reason NOT to crawl all over those debris tokens.

 

ETA:  Well, if your firing arc ends up on the token, then all your shots are obstructed, so there's ONE reason.

Edited July 18, 2016 by DailyRich

[USCGrad90 884]

So Dash Crew becomes more relevant:

Edited July 18, 2016 by USCGrad90

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

So Dash Crew becomes more relevant:

To... an extent...

 

But really, not very much at all, as there are very few ships that can take him and have a system slot and don't as a result of using said slot for this purpose, want to run with all debris anyway.

 

Ghost is the only one I think and it <3s FCS.

[USCGrad90 884]

 

So Dash Crew becomes more relevant:

To... an extent...

 

But really, not very much at all, as there are very few ships that can take him and have a system slot and don't as a result of using said slot for this purpose, want to run with all debris anyway.

 

Ghost is the only one I think and it <3s FCS.

 

Keyan with PTL, Collision Detector, Bwing/E2 and Dash crew is what I was thinking.

Use the debris to gain an extra defense die.

[Dr Zoidberg 3,200]

 

 

So Dash Crew becomes more relevant:

To... an extent...

 

But really, not very much at all, as there are very few ships that can take him and have a system slot and don't as a result of using said slot for this purpose, want to run with all debris anyway.

 

Ghost is the only one I think and it <3s FCS.

 

Keyan with PTL, Collision Detector, Bwing/E2 and Dash crew is what I was thinking.

Use the debris to gain an extra defense die.

 

 

Thinking something similar.  He's pricey, but he'll hit pretty hard and from places you don't expect.

[ThisIsDavin 59]

Just remember that if you BR/Boost onto an obstacle, and your front nubs are within that obstacle, you'll suffer the effect of that obstacle on your next maneuver (unless you can also BB8)

[Vineheart01 6,403]

Theres...also the argument of what happens when you boost/barrelroll/decloak onto or over an obstacle.

 

Per the rules, they only trigger when you do a maneuver over them. Unless i am mistaken, action moves are not maneuvers. Obviously if youre sitting on a rock you cant shoot in the upcoming combat phase but do you still roll and hope no Hits, or for that matter do you still take a stress from Debris? You didnt do a "maneuver" over the obstacle so...

 

Pretty sure thats a rule oversight though and will get faq'd quickly. But as of right now, obstacles dont do a thing to you when rolling/boosting.

[WWHSD 9,273]

Pretty sure thats a rule oversight though and will get faq'd quickly. But as of right now, obstacles dont do a thing to you when rolling/boosting.

 

It didn't make it into the last FAQ update even though it's something that has been identified as an issue since tractor tokens were spoiled.

[Rawling 345]

It didn't make it into the last FAQ update even though it's something that has been identified as an issue since tractor tokens were spoiled.

Tractor tokens have their own specific exception. Was there any reason to have a general rule in the last FAQ?

[Vineheart01 6,403]

Its not an issue with tractors. It specifically states at the bottom of the tractor card they suffer the normal effects. It also says that it doesnt count as an action.

 

Personally im not playing the way i mentioned where if you have CD you can barrelroll/boost with 0 penalties because thats seriously threading rules to do that. This game isnt written like 40k lol.

But i know a few choice people that will try that crap.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Vineheart01

[WWHSD 9,273]

Its not an issue with tractors. It specifically states at the bottom of the tractor card they suffer the normal effects.

 

That's still an issue. What are all of the normal effects?

 

RRG, pg 14:

 

"When a ship executes a maneuver, if

its base or maneuver template overlaps an obstacle

token, it executes its maneuver as normal but suffers

an effect based on the type of obstacle:

 

• Asteroid: The ship must skip its “Perform

Action” step this round. After skipping the

“Perform Action” step, it rolls one attack die. On

a [HIT] result, the ship suffers one damage; on a

[CRIT] result, it suffers one critical damage. While a

ship is overlapping an asteroid, it cannot perform

any attacks.

 

• Debris Cloud: After the “Check Pilot Stress”

step, the ship receives one stress token. After

the “Perform Action” step, it rolls one attack

die. On a [CRIT] result, the ship suffers one critical

damage. The ship can still perform attacks."

 

 

Looking at the rules for obstacles they only ever happen when hitting them as part of a maneuver. If we go ahead and hand-wave things so that these rules trigger whenever a ship or template overlap an obstacle we are still left trying to figure out what exactly "normal effects" are or how to apply them.

 

If you look at asteroids, you are informed to roll for damage after skipping your perform action step. If you've been tractored on to an asteroid, there's no perform action step being skipped. A ship with Collision Detectors may have probably already completed the perform action step this round (not exactly sure about the timing on that one). Debris clouds assign stress after the check pilot stress step which will have usually passed before either forced movement from a tractor token or the action associated with Collision Detectors. Debris cloud has you roll for damage after the perform action step. For tractor forced movement, that is long past.

 

Blow it off as a non-issue and just something that WAAC players are trying to rules lawyer if you want to but it's a serious gap in the rules especially when other cards and their interactions start to come into play.   

Edited July 19, 2016 by WWHSD

[StephenEsven 632]

This sounds awfully familiar. TB all over again. We already know what exactly happens. You suffer all the effects even though it is not a maneuver.

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

This sounds awfully familiar. TB all over again. We already know what exactly happens. You suffer all the effects even though it is not a maneuver.

Except TB only does that because it makes a specific exception, arguably.

 

As ever, it's preview content, we Do. Not. Know.

 

Until the set comes out AND is FAQed, we don't know how it's intended to work.  We can all surmise how we think it's intended to work, or we can not have an unresolvable argument about it for the next three months.  How does that sound?

[Parravon 5,217]

Sounds like business as usual around here.

[ThisIsDavin 59]

 

This sounds awfully familiar. TB all over again. We already know what exactly happens. You suffer all the effects even though it is not a maneuver.

Except TB only does that because it makes a specific exception, arguably.

 

The exception that a tractor beam makes is only that you can land on an obstacle doing something that is not a maneuver (i.e. Boost/Barrel Roll). It is not an exception to a non-maneuver to suffer or not suffer the effect.

[WWHSD 9,273]

This sounds awfully familiar. TB all over again. We already know what exactly happens. You suffer all the effects even though it is not a maneuver.

 

But we don't actually know what happens with tractor tokens. We haven't gotten anything more specific than "The ship suffers the effect of any obstacle it overlaps".

 

That would seem to exclude applying any effects that would be caused by the template overlapping. Do you ignore all the timing of the effects? Do you apply stress even though there's no "check for stress step"? Do you roll for damage even though you aren't skipping a perform action step?

 

How Collision Detector and tractor token forced movement interacts with the rules for obstacles is unclear. Once you start trying to figure out how other abilities interact with them you've got a giant mess. With the rules we currently have you are entirely likely to be playing with different rules when you play in different areas due to how local TOs and players have interpreted these rules. 

[WWHSD 9,273]

 

It didn't make it into the last FAQ update even though it's something that has been identified as an issue since tractor tokens were spoiled.

Tractor tokens have their own specific exception. Was there any reason to have a general rule in the last FAQ?

 

 

 

I went into this at length in another post in this thread. The errata to the tractor token rules card lets us know that something is supposed to happen when a ship is forced to overlap an obstacle but it isn't clear on what exactly happens or when it happens.

[Stu35 723]

The level of petty rules lawyering in this game is irritating sometimes.

The card literally says to ignore crits. If you weren't going to suffer ANY of the effects why include that line at all?

It's clear what the intention is here.

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

The level of petty rules lawyering in this game is irritating sometimes.

The card literally says to ignore crits. If you weren't going to suffer ANY of the effects why include that line at all?

It's clear what the intention is here.

so it does something for people without br boost or cloak.

[muribundi 406]

The level of petty rules lawyering in this game is irritating sometimes.

The card literally says to ignore crits. If you weren't going to suffer ANY of the effects why include that line at all?

It's clear what the intention is here.

Because the crit cancel work for any reason you would land on an obstacle, this is not linked to the first effect of the card, so there is no rule lawyering there. And no one is arguing that you will probably suffer the effect when you land on it after the barrel roll.

What we mostly argue is will you suffer them if only the template touch the obstacle. And seeing the Tractor Beam rule, it seems the template is not enough.

Edited July 20, 2016 by muribundi

[WWHSD 9,273]

The level of petty rules lawyering in this game is irritating sometimes.

The card literally says to ignore crits. If you weren't going to suffer ANY of the effects why include that line at all?

It's clear what the intention is here.

 

Collision Detectors allow you to ignore crits even when hitting obstacles as a maneuver. 

 

As for it being petty, there is a huge hole in the rules when it comes to hitting obstacles with anything but a maneuver. The articles and the additional text on the tractor token rules card makes it clear that something is supposed to happen but are not clear on what or when. Without knowing that it makes it difficult to work out other interactions. For instance if Guri has PTL and Collision Detectors can she boost onto an asteroid, use PTL and then barrel-roll off of it? What if it was debris instead? If she can barrel-roll, does she roll for damage before or after she takes the action?  Trying to apply any obstacle effects other than the "can't shoot while on an asteroid" effect to non-maneuver overlaps requires more than just "treat overlaps from barrel-rolls, decloaks, and boosts as if they happened during a maneuver". 

This also a discussion that is taking place on a forum dedicated to discussing the rules of the game. This is where these sorts of discussions should be taking place, not at the table while a game is in progress.

[Cerevant 20]

This is definitely not petty rules lawyering.  All it takes is a look at how the timing diagram in the FAQ substantially affects the behavior of different pilots and upgrades to see how crucial it is to follow RAW when possible.

 

To me, rules for obstacles are a definite case of RAW != RAI, but the problem is that there are big huge gaps in the obstacle RAI that can't be intuited from other rulings.

[Orionsbelt 4]

Please refer to this very easy and handy FFG flowchart for your explanation and clarification of the processes..........For collision with an obstacle im going to have to refer you to chapter 324, section b, subsection 1, paragraph c.......  Please call 1 800 dengaroo for any other legal questions.  (Fees May Apply***)

 

Sorry for trolling, but i had to LOL....