Tie/SF the imperials have a knife fighter!

[JJFDVORAK 1,210]

I'm not impressed with the dial at all. It really should have had a 5 straight and it probably should have green. The only thing we really know about the Tie/SF comes from Poe/Finn escaping from the First Order in one. It is a two seater,(no crew slot - it does have the rear arc so I'm ok with that) it has lasers, missiles, and mag pulse weapons(two out of three isn't bad, and maybe we'll eventually get a "Mag Pulse Weapon System" that uses your system and tech slots for some cool offensive/defensive output) and lastly that it "really moves" according to Poe(who can allegedly "fly anything") So for the dial to have no 5 at all(green or otherwise) and no boost is kind of ridiculous. Poe usually flies a T70(that has 4 straight and a boost) yet he is impressed with the Tie/SF that is arguably slower? Unlikely.

[Knucklesamwich 802]

Slap Tie Mk II on this for plenty of greens.

[PhantomFO 8,979]

Am i the only one who asks "and then what?" You have four greens and turned off half your dial. If you pull that hard one you better kill them because now you're in a bad way

You have the exact same greens as a T-70, and can add Mk II engines to this thing for one point to have the exact same greens as the IG-2000.

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

see, if "knife fighter" is just a close range combat guy, then the tie/sf isn't entirely your man

 

it's not terribly efficient, and its got an aux arc to enable cowardly strategies like running away while still farting out lasers (esp "Backdraft")

 

but "Quickdraw"? oh man, if you go range 1 with Quickdraw and just unload 8 total dice, that's a knife the size of a broadsword

[Knucklesamwich 802]

see, if "knife fighter" is just a close range combat guy, then the tie/sf isn't entirely your man

 

it's not terribly efficient, and its got an aux arc to enable cowardly strategies like running away while still farting out lasers (esp "Backdraft")

 

but "Quickdraw"? oh man, if you go range 1 with Quickdraw and just unload 8 total dice, that's a knife the size of a broadsword

What's cowardly about shooting out your rear end? Turrets shoot all over what does that make them?

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

 

see, if "knife fighter" is just a close range combat guy, then the tie/sf isn't entirely your man

 

it's not terribly efficient, and its got an aux arc to enable cowardly strategies like running away while still farting out lasers (esp "Backdraft")

 

but "Quickdraw"? oh man, if you go range 1 with Quickdraw and just unload 8 total dice, that's a knife the size of a broadsword

What's cowardly about shooting out your rear end? Turrets shoot all over what does that make them?

 

 

irredeemable bastards

 

possibly a war crime

Edited July 18, 2016 by ficklegreendice

[HolySorcerer 4,103]

When clunky old freighters can turn tighter than you can you're hardly a knife-fighter.

 

Also, no k-turn.

 

Also, low agility.

 

Also, no evade.

[Hobojebus 11,341]

Yeah range one of three attack ships is not where a two agility ship prospers.

[Knucklesamwich 802]

Yeah range one of three attack ships is not where a two agility ship prospers.

I guess the rebels should just pack it up and go home for good.

[Knucklesamwich 802]

see, if "knife fighter" is just a close range combat guy, then the tie/sf isn't entirely your man

 

it's not terribly efficient, and its got an aux arc to enable cowardly strategies like running away while still farting out lasers (esp "Backdraft")

 

but "Quickdraw"? oh man, if you go range 1 with Quickdraw and just unload 8 total dice, that's a knife the size of a broadsword

What's cowardly about shooting out your rear end? Turrets shoot all over what does that make them?

 

irredeemable bastards

 

possibly a war crime

I agree except for the Decimator. It's awesome.

[wurms 5,044]

Wired + AS + Weapons Guidance

 

Take a focus, hard 1, roll your reds, reroll eyeballs, change a blank to a hit. Wired works with both attacks if you attack twice, or all four attacks with Quickdraw.

 

Next turn, can green to clear stress and still fire out the rear Backdraft specialty, or do a white and Wired is still kicked in.

 

TIE S/F definately has potential

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

 

 

 

see, if "knife fighter" is just a close range combat guy, then the tie/sf isn't entirely your man

 

it's not terribly efficient, and its got an aux arc to enable cowardly strategies like running away while still farting out lasers (esp "Backdraft")

 

but "Quickdraw"? oh man, if you go range 1 with Quickdraw and just unload 8 total dice, that's a knife the size of a broadsword

What's cowardly about shooting out your rear end? Turrets shoot all over what does that make them?

 

irredeemable bastards

 

possibly a war crime

I agree except for the Decimator. It's awesome.

 

 

oicuun*

[GLEXOR 585]

see, if "knife fighter" is just a close range combat guy, then the tie/sf isn't entirely your man

 

it's not terribly efficient, and its got an aux arc to enable cowardly strategies like running away while still farting out lasers (esp "Backdraft")

 

but "Quickdraw"? oh man, if you go range 1 with Quickdraw and just unload 8 total dice, that's a knife the size of a broadsword

What's cowardly about shooting out your rear end? Turrets shoot all over what does that make them?

 

irredeemable bastards

 

possibly a war crime

I agree except for the Decimator. It's awesome.

Decimators, I hate decimators.

[FourDogsInaHorseSuit 1,485]

Am i the only one who asks "and then what?" You have four greens and turned off half your dial. If you pull that hard one you better kill them because now you're in a bad way

You have the exact same greens as a T-70, and can add Mk II engines to this thing for one point to have the exact same greens as the IG-2000.

T-70's are knife fighters?

And IG-2000 can chain turns together, this whole conversation is about how the 1 hard is red. Unless you're trying to tell me this dial is comparable to the aggressor's?

[Knucklesamwich 802]

Am i the only one who asks "and then what?" You have four greens and turned off half your dial. If you pull that hard one you better kill them because now you're in a bad way

You have the exact same greens as a T-70, and can add Mk II engines to this thing for one point to have the exact same greens as the IG-2000.

T-70's are knife fighters?

And IG-2000 can chain turns together, this whole conversation is about how the 1 hard is red. Unless you're trying to tell me this dial is comparable to the aggressor's?

It's closer to the Defender which with Tie MK ll is pretty good.

[ParaGoomba Slayer 3,180]

I thought Soontir with his two bank or turns stayed up close and personal. Maybe knife fight means something else perhaps?

  

The TAP I wouldn't call a 4 hp ship a knife fighter, maybe a butter knife fighter?

"Knife fighter" is one of those arbitrary, meaningless buzzword classifications that people use to describe a certain ship and try to sound smart.

It seems to have been invented to describe the B-Wing because it has a 2k-turn, which lets it remain closer to an enemy after it flips around. Which is funny because the B-Wing's 2k-turn is easily blocked especially by large base ships and is awful in a close "knife fight" situation.

Other garbage distinctions: Jouster, arc dodger, secondary weapon turret vs. primary weapon turret, sniper, and glass cannon. This game is filled with Acewing ships that are more point efficient and better at jousting than actual jousting ships. And fat turrets with engine upgrade are the best arc dodgers in the game, their large bases carry them very far and they always have shots with their turrets, which allow them to maneuver purely defensively without giving up anything. And Super Dash was just as stupid and game ruining as fat decimators or fat falcons.

Now we have a bunch of people incorrectly calling the hardest ship in the game to kill -Soontir Fel- a glass cannon. And people calling 5 or even 4 ship lists swarms.

Define knife fighter.

Give me an example of a knife fighter. If you use the B-Wing as an example, explain to me why the T-65 isn't also one.

Tell me why you think the TIE/sf is a knife fighter.

[Icelom 3,385]

To me a knife fighter is a ship that gets in close and stays there effectively.

-Guri

-Tie advanced prototype (due to the green hard 1 and the face you try and stay in to get that 3rd die, not the inquisiter)

-Tie FO (coms/juke) you have tons of dial to keep close and you can still have your evade after barrel rolling close or s-looping with solid greens to clear stress after a sloop.

The rebels have no knife fighter maybe advanced sensor b-wing but it can't keep going where you want it once it's stressed the dial is just not good enough and it's to slow. Real knife fighers can run circles around it.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Icelom

[Knucklesamwich 802]

I thought Soontir with his two bank or turns stayed up close and personal. Maybe knife fight means something else perhaps?

  

The TAP I wouldn't call a 4 hp ship a knife fighter, maybe a butter knife fighter?

"Knife fighter" is one of those arbitrary, meaningless buzzword classifications that people use to describe a certain ship and try to sound smart.

It seems to have been invented to describe the B-Wing because it has a 2k-turn, which lets it remain closer to an enemy after it flips around. Which is funny because the B-Wing's 2k-turn is easily blocked especially by large base ships and is awful in a close "knife fight" situation.

Other garbage distinctions: Jouster, arc dodger, secondary weapon turret vs. primary weapon turret, sniper, and glass cannon. This game is filled with Acewing ships that are more point efficient and better at jousting than actual jousting ships. And fat turrets with engine upgrade are the best arc dodgers in the game, their large bases carry them very far and they always have shots with their turrets, which allow them to maneuver purely defensively without giving up anything. And Super Dash was just as stupid and game ruining as fat decimators or fat falcons.

Now we have a bunch of people incorrectly calling the hardest ship in the game to kill -Soontir Fel- a glass cannon. And people calling 5 or even 4 ship lists swarms.

Define knife fighter.

Give me an example of a knife fighter. If you use the B-Wing as an example, explain to me why the T-65 isn't also one.

Tell me why you think the TIE/sf is a knife fighter.

My definition would be a ship that had the moves to stay in close and be effective. The systems slot provides the ability to get right in the middle of a CQB and not care anything about bumping because you have your action and will be still potent on offense. Having access to every 1-3 move gives it a perfect dial for staying on your target. The rear arc will be something else that will make CQB even better. If you are in a big furball having two arcs makes bumping less of an issue since you have twice the chances to have a shot on something. That's what my opinion on what makes this a good knife fighter.

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

bb-8 man

 

it runs circles in close range by moving in circles and is shaped like a circle

 

better with the ARC due to aux arc mitigating the need to flip the ship around eventually

[Warpman 2,115]

 

 

 

 

see, if "knife fighter" is just a close range combat guy, then the tie/sf isn't entirely your man

 

it's not terribly efficient, and its got an aux arc to enable cowardly strategies like running away while still farting out lasers (esp "Backdraft")

 

but "Quickdraw"? oh man, if you go range 1 with Quickdraw and just unload 8 total dice, that's a knife the size of a broadsword

What's cowardly about shooting out your rear end? Turrets shoot all over what does that make them?

 

irredeemable bastards

 

possibly a war crime

I agree except for the Decimator. It's awesome.

Decimators, I hate decimators.

 

Oicun wants a word with yo....BUMP

1 damage please

[GLEXOR 585]

see, if "knife fighter" is just a close range combat guy, then the tie/sf isn't entirely your man

 

it's not terribly efficient, and its got an aux arc to enable cowardly strategies like running away while still farting out lasers (esp "Backdraft")

 

but "Quickdraw"? oh man, if you go range 1 with Quickdraw and just unload 8 total dice, that's a knife the size of a broadsword

What's cowardly about shooting out your rear end? Turrets shoot all over what does that make them?

 

irredeemable bastards

 

possibly a war crime

I agree except for the Decimator. It's awesome.

Decimators, I hate decimators.

Oicun wants a word with yo....BUMP

1 damage please

Dang it!

[Polda 4,141]

It's a ship. It has a dial. We will get used to dealing with it's dial (Advanced Sensors). 

 

We can argue whether it has enough greens or if it is or isn't a knife fighter all day long but In the end at least Quickdraw is going to see some play.
He/She can ENRAGE!!11!!!1!111!!111!!!! and shoot at Soontir before the sucker can token up. That's huge.

 

Other than that I have seen situations where a regular TIE gets stuck in a cluster of other fighters where the 3 dice will not save him. 6 HP might. Being able to shoot at two targets sure won't hurt.

 

BTW: I absolutely want to find a tiny cowboy hat to put on Quickdraw - because I like stupid things.

 

If I could make it play some Ennio Morricone when I put a focus token on the base I would. 

Edited July 19, 2016 by Polda

[Keffisch 2,642]

 

Yes. The Imperials DO have a knife-fighter. It's called the TIE Advanced Prototype.

 

A ship where everyone seems to only take the one pilot that vastly prefers to snipe.

 

Agreed. But it is not our fault that there's only one viable pilot.

[Magnus Grendel 10,573]

Define knife fighter.

Give me an example of a knife fighter. If you use the B-Wing as an example, explain to me why the T-65 isn't also one.

Tell me why you think the TIE/sf is a knife fighter. 

 

It is a somewhat irrelevant term, but I'll try:

 

 

The B-wing is a knife fighter - the access to all three speed Hard turns,  Barrel Roll, and the possibility of Advanced Sensors means it's very hard to block in a close-packed environment. By comparison, a T-65 has trouble avoiding a swarm of blockers (academy pilots, Z-95s and so on) or engaging in a dogfight in a tight-packed obstacle field since it only has 1 predictable K-turn and no pre-move positioning.

 

I will make an exception for a T-65 (or even Y-wing!) carrying the (unique) BB-8 astromech, since a free barrel roll before a gentle bank goes a long way to letting you avoid blocks and avoid or seek out shots at close quarters.

 

However, I disagree that the Imperials didn't already have a 'knife fighter'. By the definition of 'good blocker, hard to block, wants to be in close range', I would argue that the TIE fighter and TIE/fo fighter are two of the best knife fighters in the game.

 

What the TIE/sf gives the Empire is (finally!) a medium fighter. Something with a decent 3-dice primary attack (so not dependent on expendable secondary weapons or Crack Shot), which isn't made of wafers (like generic TIE interceptors - I fully accept that Soontir Fel is not 'fragile'), and doesn't cost the earth (like TIE Defenders), meaning that you can field a squad of four of them and still have a few upgrades to play with.

 

In fact, a squad of four with Special Forces Training, Sensor Clusters and Collision Detectors could be quite a nice squad.

[Hobojebus 11,341]

If the choice is cog which will die in a turn or two or defender that can last all game people will spend a few more points on the x7's.

 

Unlike the t-70 the cog has no AT or IA to boost its survivability, no astromech to give it regen it's just not going to live long on two greens.

 

Quickdraw will only ever get two shots off.