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The_Shaman

Getting an Exitus Rifle - how Hard Can it be?

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I have had some disagreements with one of my players in a recent game in his endless quest for greater loot (and riches, connections and disposable assets - seneschals...). He is a sniper afficionado and has really set his sights on an exitus rifle as soon as he found out about it. Me, I am not too keen on having even a member of the rogue trader dynasty walk around with something that should belong to the assassin temples, but he is rather insistent. The constant arguing is really getting on my nerves, but I am not yet interested in ending the game over it, so I thought I would ask for advice. Similar arguments have been going on about various archeotech, and I expect they may pop up about more things in the future. 

 

My idea is that something like that is, put simply, not for sale anywhere in the Koronus, and pretty much impossible to obtain via standard means. On the other hand, I could certainly say the same about titans, and yet there were some mentions of how to acquire one. So how would you go about if a player was trying to obtain such arcane gear - where could it be found (and what would NOT be enough to find it), and what sort of consequences would you include for it? As thematic as it might be having to roll for assassination with all the bonuses a skilled sniper (maybe not even a true vindicare, just a prospective candidate like in the DH Ascension package) every time the crew goes out in Port Wander, Footfall and eventually their own ship, I imagine this would not go well with the players. 

Edited by The_Shaman

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Some points:

  1. In game, the character should have next to no idea that the weapon, or even the Assassins, themselves, exist. If he has seen one, someone should probably come along and kill him. I figure, if the Grey Knights must somehow, for no good reason, be kept "a secret", if only from the people they actually protect (every enemy faction, knows they exist), then the greatest Assassins we send after our own worst transgressors are probably secrets, too, beyond "the Imperium has some way, in the shadows, to kill anyone who really gets their goat."
  2. Short of finding a Vindicare, and killing him (First rule of 40k RPG: you are not Darkstrider), or locating a corpse of one, and getting his gun (I hope you are not the Assassin's Creed Black Flag protagonist, either; you'd be too drunk to realize how good the gun is), these aren't simply "available", anymore than polymorphine, C'Tan Phase Swords, Animus Speculi, or the myriad other toys many of these Operatives use. If you were somehow so connected as to know of these temples, and be able to communicate with one, without being an Inquisitor, or a High Lord of Terra, I think they'd just say "nope".
  3. Every Exitus Rifle, and its affiliated pistol, is gene-locked to the Assassin, in question (DH1: Ascension, p.139). While I know there often comes a point where a pimped PC finds no test they are pimped for to be truly daunting, anymore, their guns, and other gear, are tailored to their stats, and need a Hard (-30) Tech-Use and Medicae test (p.147; I swear it was tougher than that, but I'll still mention it) to set up for another user, or, in the case of the guns, to even fire.
  4. Lastly, while I grant that the Exitus Rifle is a marvel of technology, a sniper rifle effectively set apart from others, the thing most people like is the special ammo, and while even the "regular" rounds these weapons fire are rare, specific to the gun, the "special ammo" is usually less than a dozen, between each type, on the one assassin. Mr. Vindicare probably only had a few of each on him, when you hobo-murdered him for his toys, so you'll run out, and since these aren't the types of things you can make regular Acquisition rolls for, you'd have no built-in way to resupply. Even a Callidus only brings along a small, finite amount of polymorphine, so that if she is aced, there is very little to study, and she has to return to her handlers for more; her job requires her to plan carefully for ehen she will actually change shape. Vinny is no better off. If you just want it for a shelf ornament, like 80% of the weapons you collected in Skyrim, maybe, but if you actually want to use it, you'll quickly see how a shooty Ork feels, after wasting all the bullets.

I love the idea in Rogue Trader that you can finally get most of the cool things you ever wanted, but there is a list of things you still can't have, and this should be on it. No way you got it is mundane, and no way you got it shouldn't have the risk of an Inquisitor, or unknown Operative of an Assassinorum Temple seeing it, as you show off, and bringing someone down on your head (I imagine these could be "easy missions", to more just keep an Assassin sharp, if you will, since you won't have all the security of a Planetary Goernor, or a paranoid Cultist, assumedly). Also, something must be said for the Vindicare's own skill. Vinny, and his rifle, are badass, no question, but he's sort of like Bullseye; I'm rather confident he can kill you with almost anything, and the gun is just the best, most pimped option.

 

Certainly, you can tell me to buzz off, and it is your game to run, but I'd try to put my foot down, and say "there ain't no way". The secrets of the Temples, primarily their tools of the trade, can never be handled by others, lest their effectiveness diminish, once their secrets are revealed. Also, meta-gaming, saying I know, so my character does, is wrong, so knowing about the existence of this penultimate sniper rifle seems suspect, even before wanting one.

 

Okay, I'm done telling you how to do things. If you DO go for it, at least it is, among the Assassin toys, the most mundane accessory; mostly just a BQ sniper rifle, so other than slapping sense, and drawing eyes, it shouldn't unduly effect the game, itself. Best of luck, and have a good one.

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All of venkelos's points are correct, and it's important to remember that all of the things your players know about the setting and reading an Armoury spreadsheet doesn't mean your characters know about it. So you can't stroll down to Heretical Ivan's Discount Firearms and just pick one up.

 

On the other hand, you could make it work... provided they're prepared to accept the consequences. People are aware that assassins exist, and it stands to reason you might think that they might have their own pimped out guns. Perhaps your player looks and finds one, and does get a shiny new Exitus rifle complete with one clip (but no more) ammunition for a very reasonable price. Unfortuantely, the person who sold it was a heretic whose people killed the assassin that had been sent after them, and now sold the gun so that they can pin the crime on someone else. Now, very shortly, your players are going to find themselves tracked by the most relentless, and killiest, group of people in the Imperium. Perhaps to be reasonable it might just be the assassin who was ambushed and needs to get his gun back, but if they survive having a temple assassin sent after them, then they have earned the gun.

 

If they clear their names in a well thought out way, you could have the assassins provide a supply of ammunition to your players so that they get maybe one reload each session. If it goes poorly... well you have different types of assassins you can send.

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Was it mentioned anywhere just who produces those weapons? One idea that was tracked was to visit the forgeworld and inducing the production of a few extra parts - although I have a hard time seeing that happen,as I expect those forge worlds would be extremely well regimented.

Edited by The_Shaman

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Tbh, I think it's safe to say that there's far, far more Titans than Vindicare Assassins (and thus Exitus rifles) in existence, not to mention that the latter is a holy symbol of status for one of the six Assassin Temples, whereas I could actually see the Mechanicus giving away Titans like starships (= rare but it happens), simply because both are vehicles and the AdMech is not the only Imperial faction utilising or even building large walkers.

 

In my opinion, it would be a far better approach to come up with a different weapon that matches the Exitus in power. It could be a piece of archaeotech, or a custom masterwork, or even an alien weapon. The stats should not be much of a problem for a wealthy and well-connected Rogue Trader, and this way you may circumvent the whole business about taking the gun from a group of people who are so elite that their every action needs to be ratified by a majority vote in the Senatorum Imperialis.

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Some points:

  1. In game, the character should have next to no idea that the weapon, or even the Assassins, themselves, exist. If he has seen one, someone should probably come along and kill him. I figure, if the Grey Knights must somehow, for no good reason, be kept "a secret", if only from the people they actually protect (every enemy faction, knows they exist), then the greatest Assassins we send after our own worst transgressors are probably secrets, too, beyond "the Imperium has some way, in the shadows, to kill anyone who really gets their goat."
  2. Short of finding a Vindicare, and killing him (First rule of 40k RPG: you are not Darkstrider), or locating a corpse of one, and getting his gun (I hope you are not the Assassin's Creed Black Flag protagonist, either; you'd be too drunk to realize how good the gun is), these aren't simply "available", anymore than polymorphine, C'Tan Phase Swords, Animus Speculi, or the myriad other toys many of these Operatives use. If you were somehow so connected as to know of these temples, and be able to communicate with one, without being an Inquisitor, or a High Lord of Terra, I think they'd just say "nope".
  3. Every Exitus Rifle, and its affiliated pistol, is gene-locked to the Assassin, in question (DH1: Ascension, p.139). While I know there often comes a point where a pimped PC finds no test they are pimped for to be truly daunting, anymore, their guns, and other gear, are tailored to their stats, and need a Hard (-30) Tech-Use and Medicae test (p.147; I swear it was tougher than that, but I'll still mention it) to set up for another user, or, in the case of the guns, to even fire.
  4. Lastly, while I grant that the Exitus Rifle is a marvel of technology, a sniper rifle effectively set apart from others, the thing most people like is the special ammo, and while even the "regular" rounds these weapons fire are rare, specific to the gun, the "special ammo" is usually less than a dozen, between each type, on the one assassin. Mr. Vindicare probably only had a few of each on him, when you hobo-murdered him for his toys, so you'll run out, and since these aren't the types of things you can make regular Acquisition rolls for, you'd have no built-in way to resupply. Even a Callidus only brings along a small, finite amount of polymorphine, so that if she is aced, there is very little to study, and she has to return to her handlers for more; her job requires her to plan carefully for ehen she will actually change shape. Vinny is no better off. If you just want it for a shelf ornament, like 80% of the weapons you collected in Skyrim, maybe, but if you actually want to use it, you'll quickly see how a shooty Ork feels, after wasting all the bullets.

I love the idea in Rogue Trader that you can finally get most of the cool things you ever wanted, but there is a list of things you still can't have, and this should be on it. No way you got it is mundane, and no way you got it shouldn't have the risk of an Inquisitor, or unknown Operative of an Assassinorum Temple seeing it, as you show off, and bringing someone down on your head (I imagine these could be "easy missions", to more just keep an Assassin sharp, if you will, since you won't have all the security of a Planetary Goernor, or a paranoid Cultist, assumedly). Also, something must be said for the Vindicare's own skill. Vinny, and his rifle, are badass, no question, but he's sort of like Bullseye; I'm rather confident he can kill you with almost anything, and the gun is just the best, most pimped option.

 

Certainly, you can tell me to buzz off, and it is your game to run, but I'd try to put my foot down, and say "there ain't no way". The secrets of the Temples, primarily their tools of the trade, can never be handled by others, lest their effectiveness diminish, once their secrets are revealed. Also, meta-gaming, saying I know, so my character does, is wrong, so knowing about the existence of this penultimate sniper rifle seems suspect, even before wanting one.

 

Okay, I'm done telling you how to do things. If you DO go for it, at least it is, among the Assassin toys, the most mundane accessory; mostly just a BQ sniper rifle, so other than slapping sense, and drawing eyes, it shouldn't unduly effect the game, itself. Best of luck, and have a good one.

 

That's the final word.  If Venkelos calls "cheese" then you've gone Beyond the Pale.

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Was it mentioned anywhere just who produces those weapons? One idea that was tracked was to visit the forgeworld and inducing the production of a few extra parts - although I have a hard time seeing that happen,as I expect those forge worlds would be extremely well regimented.

 

They are made by the Adeptus Machanicus. 

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To add to that, depending on your take, regarding the number of Assassin Temples (one of each clade, likely on Terra, or multiples, spread out?), the AdMech who make them could very easily be located on Mars, of all places, or even Holy Terra, and the AdMech in question, then, do not care who you are, or what you're offering. I subscribe to the theory that there is only one Temple of each, and they are on Earth, if you couldn't tell, as it keeps the control of them in the hands of the High Lords, and, in this case, the personnel who arm the Assassins are where the Temples are. In this case, there is no AdMech group in Calixis, for instance, who can be bribed, bullied, or blackmailed, into giving you this gun. Of course, your opinion may vary, and thus your mileage. Have a good one!

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Tbh, I think it's safe to say that there's far, far more Titans than Vindicare Assassins (and thus Exitus rifles) in existence, not to mention that the latter is a holy symbol of status for one of the six Assassin Temples, whereas I could actually see the Mechanicus giving away Titans like starships (= rare but it happens), simply because both are vehicles and the AdMech is not the only Imperial faction utilising or even building large walkers.

 

In my opinion, it would be a far better approach to come up with a different weapon that matches the Exitus in power. It could be a piece of archaeotech, or a custom masterwork, or even an alien weapon. The stats should not be much of a problem for a wealthy and well-connected Rogue Trader, and this way you may circumvent the whole business about taking the gun from a group of people who are so elite that their every action needs to be ratified by a majority vote in the Senatorum Imperialis.

Well, titans are the God-Machines of the Mechanicus, and, further, are part of one of the Titan Legios. Maybe you could convince a Legio to let you borrow a God-Machine, along with it's crew and Princips, but there is no way you can just own one. Not only are they rare, they are physical manifestations of the Omnisiah, and NOT for you.

 

I hold the same opinion on the Exitus rifle. You don't know they exist, and the only way to get one is to kill an assassin, or raid the Temple (only slightly less stupid than raiding the Imperial Palace). Even if you did kill an assassin to get one (and how exactly do you expect to find an assassin you don't know exists, and kill him, when he kills Planetary Governors before breakfast), you would only have a few rounds. Then, you break the gene coding, and wait for the inevitable assassin kill team sent after you.

 

I imagine that encounter goes something like this.

 

PC is on a planet. GM starts rolling some dice. Player asks what they are doing. GM of course says it's nothing. Then the Turbo Penetrator hits the PC in the head. Case closed.

 

Even if the PC was actively looking for signs that a Vindicare was on the planet, they would have a heck of a time finding out that the Assassin was even there.

Edited by Servant of Dante

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Well may I offer the Belasco Deathworks Vernichten

 

The Vernichten is a custom fitted to the individual shooter it is made for.  It is considered a Best Quality weapon and is the only way it is available. Comes with Bipod, Suppressor, and a Targeter.  When the round is fired a Maglev Impeller System helps to propel the round down range into the target need to change the power pack every 2 clips.

 

Custom Ammo is available at 1000 throne per round of ammo, and is either a Lathe Body Blower or Organgringer Round.  Other custom rounds could be designed and custom made for the Rifle.

 

Comes with it own Arms Coffer designed to carry the rifle and 4 mags and a spare pistol size weapon and 4 mags.  Total wgt 22.8kgs plus the Pistol and ammo

 

Class: Basic (SP)

Range: 220m

ROF S/--/--

Damage d10+6

Pen 5

Clip  5

Reload 1 Full + 1 Full for Powercell

Special: Accurate, Reliable, Heavy Barrel

Wgt 12kg

Price: 10,000 Thrones

Availablity: Extremely Rare

 

and a picture

http://peterku.deviantart.com/art/Htec-side-look-269649491

Edited by Angel of Death

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As an expat German, may I just recommend changing "Vernichten" (destroy) to "Vernichter" (destroyer)? Unless that is a deliberate pun playing off Games Workshop's at-times horrible nomenclature. ;)

 

Bonus points for choosing a railgun delivery method, though! Minor details such as these are what give a gun "flavour".

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As an expat German, may I just recommend changing "Vernichten" (destroy) to "Vernichter" (destroyer)? Unless that is a deliberate pun playing off Games Workshop's at-times horrible nomenclature. ;)

 

Bonus points for choosing a railgun delivery method, though! Minor details such as these are what give a gun "flavour".

What Games Workshop has horrible nomenclature?  I never noticed   :rolleyes: 

 

But honestly I was looking at it as whatever it hit will be destroyed or ruined depending on that ammo loadout for the shot.  I was trying my poor, poor, poor German skills to give it a name.

 

and thank you I thought that a Human Made Railgun would give it a nice flavour and well show why it like it is and the cost are.  You are only going to find this in the hands of a "Master" of the craft of long range shooting or a Noble with more money then sense :D

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Come to think of it, you could maybe even pass it off as a barely(?) legal Tau derivate, similar to the Spyrer suits certain teenage nobles on Necromunda like to use? The fluff never pointed out the connection specifically, but it did drop some pretty obvious hints (including mentioning an Inquisitorial investigation), so if you'd want to, you could craft a neat tie-in here. ;)

 

I've used magnetism in a human gun I designed as well, just that in my case it had nothing to do with firing the (caseless) projectile but simply holding it in place until the trigger is pulled.

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Come to think of it, you could maybe even pass it off as a barely(?) legal Tau derivate, similar to the Spyrer suits certain teenage nobles on Necromunda like to use? The fluff never pointed out the connection specifically, but it did drop some pretty obvious hints (including mentioning an Inquisitorial investigation), so if you'd want to, you could craft a neat tie-in here. ;)

 

I've used magnetism in a human gun I designed as well, just that in my case it had nothing to do with firing the (caseless) projectile but simply holding it in place until the trigger is pulled.

(just chiming in here to do my duty :D )

 

ahem.

 

HERESY! There can be no compromise with the Xeno. Abominations and heretics all of them! A blemish upon His galaxy! How DARE you even THINK to use their unholy technology "in the name of the Emperor?" You shall be purged!

 

Yes, I know there are heretical-I mean radical Inquisitors that use Xeno weaponry as a matter of course, and what you're suggesting is even less that that.

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If I might make a suggestion...since Tau are the masters of railgun technology...perhaps the Imperium has only gotten it halfway figured out, so the maglev quality maybe doesn't propel the munitions but instead merely "floats" the bullet along the barrel so as to provide a frictionless path down the barrel while chemicals still provide the propulsion.  This provides an increased velocity.  Just a suggestion, of course....

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Tbh, I think it's safe to say that there's far, far more Titans than Vindicare Assassins (and thus Exitus rifles) in existence, not to mention that the latter is a holy symbol of status for one of the six Assassin Temples, whereas I could actually see the Mechanicus giving away Titans like starships (= rare but it happens), simply because both are vehicles and the AdMech is not the only Imperial faction utilising or even building large walkers.

 

In my opinion, it would be a far better approach to come up with a different weapon that matches the Exitus in power. It could be a piece of archaeotech, or a custom masterwork, or even an alien weapon. The stats should not be much of a problem for a wealthy and well-connected Rogue Trader, and this way you may circumvent the whole business about taking the gun from a group of people who are so elite that their every action needs to be ratified by a majority vote in the Senatorum Imperialis.

Well, titans are the God-Machines of the Mechanicus, and, further, are part of one of the Titan Legios. Maybe you could convince a Legio to let you borrow a God-Machine, along with it's crew and Princips, but there is no way you can just own one. Not only are they rare, they are physical manifestations of the Omnisiah, and NOT for you.

 

I hold the same opinion on the Exitus rifle. You don't know they exist, and the only way to get one is to kill an assassin, or raid the Temple (only slightly less stupid than raiding the Imperial Palace). Even if you did kill an assassin to get one (and how exactly do you expect to find an assassin you don't know exists, and kill him, when he kills Planetary Governors before breakfast), you would only have a few rounds. Then, you break the gene coding, and wait for the inevitable assassin kill team sent after you.

 

I imagine that encounter goes something like this.

 

PC is on a planet. GM starts rolling some dice. Player asks what they are doing. GM of course says it's nothing. Then the Turbo Penetrator hits the PC in the head. Case closed.

 

Even if the PC was actively looking for signs that a Vindicare was on the planet, they would have a heck of a time finding out that the Assassin was even there.

 

 

There is actually an Endeavour in Hostile Acquisitions that is basically stealing a Titan. Steal the Titan to be able to steal retrieve an STC from a particularly rowdy planet, and the Mechanicus are so thankful that they actually let you keep the Titan.

Edited by Greyfeathers

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