Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
JimbonX

FFG stop making rebells expensive

Recommended Posts

Can we all agree that few plays rebels because each ship is overpriced as in can't have proper upgrades. E-Wing, T-65, B-Wing, K-Wing all these ships needs a lower squadpoints so points can be used on upgrades instead, don't we all agree?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to an extent i'd have to agree. They have some good stuff but they have the most overpriced ships of all 3 factions. Or ships that simply cant do anything but raw dice.

They also love the random torpedo slot. ENOUGH WITH THE RANDOM TORPEDO SLOT! nobody every f'ing uses it. Missiles sometimes get used because ion missiles or prockets are cheap and easy to pull off without ordnance shenanigans. Torpedos are not.

 

And the 1agi small ship thing is getting old.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Their 30-ish point range definitly is oversaturated with crap. I wouldn't mind a few atractive ships there in a similar light as the Inquisitor or Omega Leader. Actually the same goes for scum, its something that makes listbuilding a lot easier for the Empire right now.

Edited by Admiral Deathrain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to an extent i'd have to agree. They have some good stuff but they have the most overpriced ships of all 3 factions. Or ships that simply cant do anything but raw dice.

They also love the random torpedo slot. ENOUGH WITH THE RANDOM TORPEDO SLOT! nobody every f'ing uses it. Missiles sometimes get used because ion missiles or prockets are cheap and easy to pull off without ordnance shenanigans. Torpedos are not.

 

And the 1agi small ship thing is getting old.

 

I don't want to see the torpedo slot go away, since that is what made the Rebels a threat in the canon. Their fleet couldn't go toe-to-tow with the empire, but their fighters had serious firepower and ordnance; enough to take down capital ships, even.

 

However, it does feel like the rebels pay for it with each of their ships, even though no one uses it. An upgrade akin to Chaardan Refit for the torpedo slot would be nice, though I don't know what would be a balanced effect to give it. 

Edited by Wichenstaden

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have enough experience to say they are over priced or not and most likely some are.

 

But hasn't the Rebellion ship taken Worlds the last three years at least? They can't be all that bad can they?

They did, but the stars of those squads were usually older ships. Biggs Darklighter, Han Solo, the Stresshog Y-Wing. Those squads did all contain new ships at that time (B-Wings, Z-95s, Poe) but two of those have been pushed out with Poe also being on that way. Recent ships also had the tendency to close in on 40 points in their viable configurations or just sucking, which is a headache when putting together lists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Their 30-ish point range definitly is oversaturated with crap. I wouldn't mind a few atractive ships there in a similar light as the Inquisitor or Omega Leader. Actually the same goes for scum, its something that makes listbuilding a lot easier for the Empire right now.

 

I find list building for the empire so hard because I want to build around so many different things and everything looks so fun. And you can usually find something really fun and cool to do with those 20 left over points or so after your main synergy is developed. With rebels, your so limited. it makes it really challenging. I primarily play rebels and have revisited old builds and just started focusing on them. Right now an offensive Han and Corran is been my primary list. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right. ~40pts should be a heavy threat in your list, not just a good ship.

All the Imperial ~40pt ships are flatout mean (except the lambda/punisher). Rebel 40pt ships are "good" with 1-2 exceptions.

 

Every awesome ship rebels had in the past is either in the dumpster or on the way there except Dash. Keyan is literally the only Bwing worth bothering with, but he has the 1agi ship issue and the ARC will be joining him soon. iirc the Firespray is the only imperial ship that used to be common that is dead now.

 

i like running odd lists. Ive tried numerous times to try doing a trip x-wing or t70 list just for the hell of it. But i still wont run a list i feel will immediately flop. When making imp lists even when avoiding the "aces" i still can basically bring whatever i want to some degree and good flying makes it work at least good enough to be fun. Rebels? Nope. Everything i try is slightly overpriced, dull as hell, or flatout useless. Except for the very few netlists everyone knows about for rebels (i.e. dash + corran, dash + ghost)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

in terms of raw dice? technically they'd win. But that list is pretty raw while the uboats are basically guaranteed 4 hits. If you manage to not evade any they can take out a bwing in 2 shots, and even if you evade one you might get that **** double damage.

 

BBBBZ has more dice by a longshot and they arent 1use, but uboats are turreted primaries after their crazy strong 4die shots go through. Unless you got lucky as hell, you'd have 2 Bwings left by the time his torps are out and you MIGHT have killed 1 jumpmaster since for some reason a ship 3x your size is more nimble.

Edited by Vineheart01

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair, about the stats and ordnance slots, they are restricted to what the lore says about what ships had.

Usually the problem is that the canonical configuration of a ship doesn't make much sense in these 100 point skirmishes. But theoretically this game isn't just the 100 points Skirmish mode.

Rebels being expensive, tankier, usually self-regenerating ships has been a trends since the core set, and actually something that kind of goes well with the lore.

It has been since the ordnance abuse from Jumpmasters that these traits have been rendered useless versus peak damage or arc-dodging.

Either they perform a blanket-buff to rebels to adapt to the new era of peak damage alpha strikes, or they need to reduce this back to levels where it doesn't eliminate the Rebels' main advantage.

 

I think it is quite unlikely that they do a global buff to Rebels. But if they did, something like a -3 the cost of all rebel pilots (just throwing there a number), it would make sense that all new rebel ships would come overpriced by 3 points. Again, I find this hypothesis unlikely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

B-Wings overcosted?

You should refer to the BBBBZ era in your history books...

And 4 Y-Wings with TLT I know.

How well would BBBBZ perform against Jumpmaster?

 

Probably pretty well.

 

Now how well would BBBBZ perform against Palp Aces, the actual real meta threat?

 

It's near impossible to build a Rebel list that is capable of beating both Palp Aces and U-Boats. U-Boats have so much health that you need high peak damage, but typically the things that have high peak damage that you can field a lot of get curbstomped by Palp Aces, which is won against by regen, stress mechanics, and maneuverable ships like T-70s(which is nowhere near the same maneuverability level as anything the Empire fields right now, and doesn't really feature any more damage potential either. All it has is more HP.), but those are absolutely bodied by U-Boats.

 

Rebels have such an incredibly steep hill to climb every tournament, because our ships are ALWAYS a handful of points overcosted, and generally do less than Imperial ships at the same time. 

 

Imps have enough damage output per ship, the maneuverability, and dice modifiers that they can outmaneuver you, out damage you, and not get hit all the while. Rebels can sort of do the first one, but Rebels generally suffer from poor self-sufficiency as well, as our crappy pilot abilities are supposed to "combo together" which costs so much to do, because instead of bringing a ship that can hold their own on an individual level, you need to bring a squishy, weak support ship instead.

Edited by Razgriz25thinf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the random torpedo slot wouldnt be bad if we had a good cheap torpedo to put in it. Fletchette torps are the cheapest at 3pts but usually dont do any damage, just stress 4hull ships.

 

I doubt it, but im hoping that torpedo card we havent seen yet ends up being a rebel only dirt cheap pretty good torpedo.

 

Proton Torpedos made Xwings a massive threat to large ships in the shows. But because of the cost and the way the rules work in the game, theyre difficult to dish out without severely gimping yourself in the process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the random torpedo slot wouldnt be bad if we had a good cheap torpedo to put in it. Fletchette torps are the cheapest at 3pts but usually dont do any damage, just stress 4hull ships.

 

I doubt it, but im hoping that torpedo card we havent seen yet ends up being a rebel only dirt cheap pretty good torpedo.

 

Proton Torpedos made Xwings a massive threat to large ships in the shows. But because of the cost and the way the rules work in the game, theyre difficult to dish out without severely gimping yourself in the process.

Flechettes are 2pts, but Plasma Torps are only 3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The majority of the rebel ships are inclined to jousting and there just seems to be no place for non-swarm jousting in the current meta.  IMO, ships like the B-wing and X-wing are balanced relative to everything except Vader, Soontir, and the Inquistor.  The problem is that they are near worthless against the Imperial aces.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It always bugs me how you build a list and want to put interesting upgrades on them but they add up so fast that you can't fit what you like in a 100 point list.  It's like the game advertises all these cool little additions you can use to spice up your list but in the end you have to cherry pick the most important ones and settle for those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It always bugs me how you build a list and want to put interesting upgrades on them but they add up so fast that you can't fit what you like in a 100 point list.  It's like the game advertises all these cool little additions you can use to spice up your list but in the end you have to cherry pick the most important ones and settle for those.

 

125 pt would be fun :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My biggest beef with points cost is the 1-agility rebel ships

If my count is correct, including all of the announced ships:

Total Ships: Rebels 14, Scum 13 (Including Lancer and Starfighter) and Empire 13.

1-agility or less: Rebels 6, Scum 3, Empire 3.

2-agility: Rebel 6, Scum 6, Empire 4.

3-agility: Rebel 2, Scum 4, Empire 6.

When I saw the 1-Agility on the ARC-170, I knew the main thing I would be buying it for is the upgrade cards:

PS3 Jumpmaster = 25 points 2 attack 360 degrees, 2-agility, 5 hull, 4 shield, 3 actions, EPT, 2x Torpedoes, Crew, Astromech, Illicit

PS3 ARC-170 = 25 points: 2 attack in front and back arc.1-agility, 6 hull, 3 shield, 2 actions, Torpedo, Crew, Astromech.

PS4 Punisher = 23 points: 2 attack front, 1-agility, 6 hull, 3 shield, 3 actions, System, 2x Torps, 2 Missles, 2x Bombs

Edited by USCGrad90

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The majority of the rebel ships are inclined to jousting and there just seems to be no place for non-swarm jousting in the current meta.  IMO, ships like the B-wing and X-wing are balanced relative to everything except Vader, Soontir, and the Inquistor.  The problem is that they are near worthless against the Imperial aces.

finally someone got the point.

rebels are jousting fatties 50% of the time, the other 40% being turret syndrome and 10% being a-wings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Theres just too many ways to nerfs defense dices these days. 2die ships usually can still dodge 1 hit reliably, both because double the odds of rolling 1 evade and if they get 2 you USUALLY cant cancel both, or reduce agi and cancel 1 (Wedge or intimidation or Tractor is all that comes to mind that can reduce agi and still potentially counter evades, though if you run Juke on Wedge you have a TON of points dedicated to giving him Juke capabilities lol).

 

Its gotten easier to guarantee 3-4die hits.

Its gotten easier to counter defense.

Rebel still gets 1agi ships aplenty. 9 total health means jack squat when they get hit with 2-3 4die hits a turn which have surprising accuracy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...