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Knucklesamwich

Is tail gunner a "fix" for the Firespray?

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The tail gunner will help the Firespray and Scum Kath will certainly love it but does it really do much for the others. With LRS on the way and IMO recspec already being an excellent choice for the Firespray crew slot will tail gunner make an difference? I have played plenty of firesprays since they were introduced and it's not always easy to get the rear arc in use when you want too. I was hoping for more I guess to give the old FS some viability and I'm not sure this does much.

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it will make Scum pretty good since they also have the Illicit and ACTUALLY GOOD SKILLS

 

Imperial will never be good until they either a) give us the same cards Scum got or b) give us some pretty mean imperial only upgrades for it (title related most likely).

 

But i kinda expect them to never touch imperial firespray, since boba was kinda only in the imp faction because Scum didnt exist yet. He is not imperial, hes just definitely not a rebel.

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No.  It makes them a little bit better, but there is still stiff competition for that one crew slot (It really should have had at least two or three crew slots).  Kath will likely run Tail Gunner and double down on her ability, but it is by no means an auto-include (aka "fix") on anybody.

Edited by HolySorcerer

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not sure if you mean its a "fix", i think its just another option

 

Ive been running

 

Kath Scarlet

* Veteran Instinct

* Dengar

* Glitterstim

* Engine Upgrade

 

So far its gotten me the best results. 

 

 

Things to take note:

 - I run high Pilot Skill in order to take shots at Whispers before they can re-cloak

 - The boost allows you to line up with the rear arc. Its a near necessity. That last boost helps also helps with turning around quickly to re-engage in the fight.

 - The boost eats up your action, giving you 0 dice modifications on an attack. However, this is cancelled out with Dengar. With so many unique pilots, its 2 re-rolls.

 

 

Key notes:

 - If you run the Tail Gunner, if you use your boost, it'll be a 4-dice (assuming range 2) unmodified attack roll

 - For example purposes, you'll be shooting at a Whipser/Soontir/Vader all with 2 evade dice (-1 from tail gunner) with modifications focus/evade tokens.

 - 4 unmodified red dice vs 2 modified green dice... propability wise, i dont think this is in Kath's favor.



this is my understanding and how im going about this new card. any other input from my perspective is greatly appreciated!

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i'd much rather cause that crit than cause a stress...

Now if it was flatout "if you roll any hits or crits and the defender evaded the attack completely, assign 1 stress token to the defender" i'd be a bit less salty about it. Ive ran Kath quite a bit in imperials trying desperately to make use of that stupid ship and boba imperial sucks so bad its sickening. Never gotten her ability off, because its either against a low-agi ship in which case i got said crit through and was fine with that or i never got a crit against a high evade ship and also did no damage.

Edited by Vineheart01

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Scum Firesprays are in pretty good spot and there is a lot of competition for that crew slot there so I think we're pretty much just going to see it on Kath for them, though it could very well boost her up over Boba in use.

 

Empire Firesprays are to much of a mess for this to make much of a difference. Imp Kath is decent but her ability works waay better with the Marksmanship gunner combo.

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For Imperial Firespray, it's a nice boost. TG's only real competition for the spot is Agent Kallus. Paired with Slave-I/LRS, it should do something.

 

For Scum Firespray, the plethora of great crew choices is hard for TG to fit in. Both Dengar and K4 SecDroid offer action-economy. 4-LOM and Zuckuss make it extra-easy to land hits. Scum Kath can run it for sh--- and giggles but, in the end, it's an inferior choice.

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I suppose Tail Gunner will try and get you to use the rear Arc more and try to "overshoot" your target and set the rear guns up. Easier to do with VI Boba but I wonder what it will do for the other Firespray pilots.

Bounty Hunters may use it but their low PS favour Recon Specialist or Rebel Captive in my opinion.

Mercenaries may like it. You could put Predator on them for some focus/re-roll/reduce agility options.

Krassis won't ever take this.

Scum Kath seems the obvious choice as you are wanting to abuse her rear firing arc anyway. The difficulty yiu face though is dice modification. The normal tactic of taking Predator and Outlaw Tech and performing a 4 K into the opening engagement is seriously solid. Tail Gunner will require a more cautious approach.

Imperial Kath has better options in my opinion. For example the Predator/Tactican/Flechette/Guidence Chips triple stress is fairly brutal.

What I think people tend to forget about the Firespray is the board control that it provides. This just gives another form of control.

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I'm wondering how this will work on Slave 1's equipped with LRS.  Seems like a deadly combo.  Front arc slinging TL and Focus, then a big bad rear arc hit, seems like a one two KO punch.

But then you can't have recspec which is the only thing I have found so far that helps the FS last a bit longer for the high price of pay for it.

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not sure if you mean its a "fix", i think its just another option

 

Ive been running

 

Kath Scarlet

* Veteran Instinct

* Dengar

* Glitterstim

* Engine Upgrade

 

So far its gotten me the best results. 

 

 

Things to take note:

 - I run high Pilot Skill in order to take shots at Whispers before they can re-cloak

 - The boost allows you to line up with the rear arc. Its a near necessity. That last boost helps also helps with turning around quickly to re-engage in the fight.

 - The boost eats up your action, giving you 0 dice modifications on an attack. However, this is cancelled out with Dengar. With so many unique pilots, its 2 re-rolls.

 

 

Key notes:

 - If you run the Tail Gunner, if you use your boost, it'll be a 4-dice (assuming range 2) unmodified attack roll

 - For example purposes, you'll be shooting at a Whipser/Soontir/Vader all with 2 evade dice (-1 from tail gunner) with modifications focus/evade tokens.

 - 4 unmodified red dice vs 2 modified green dice... propability wise, i dont think this is in Kath's favor.

this is my understanding and how im going about this new card. any other input from my perspective is greatly appreciated!

Yea, if you're running tail gunner and losing Dengar, then you'll have to drop VI and pick up LW or predator if you want to keep rerolls

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For Imperial Firespray, it's a nice boost. TG's only real competition for the spot is Agent Kallus. Paired with Slave-I/LRS, it should do something.

 

For Scum Firespray, the plethora of great crew choices is hard for TG to fit in. Both Dengar and K4 SecDroid offer action-economy. 4-LOM and Zuckuss make it extra-easy to land hits. Scum Kath can run it for sh--- and giggles but, in the end, it's an inferior choice.

It allows for far more flexibility then all of those. K4 locks you to your greens, Zuckuss and 4-LOM both have draw backs that really limit when and how often you can use them plus have less powerful effects and Dengar's effect while good is a lot more common, pred or and simple saved TL can replace him. Kath always wants to shoot from the rear so this basically gives her Wedge's ability backed by four dice. Its kinda meh on the other scum firesprays but Kath will be brutal with it.

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While this looks good on Scum Kath, I think both Dengar and K4 are going to be better options. people already want to stay out of her rear arc and adding two points to further incentivize that means you're simply adding two points to your Firespray for two abilities that will get used less and aren't worth the affect they have on opponent's flying.

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Krassis won't ever take this.

 

I'm not so sure about that.

 

HLC gives you 4 front dice.

Tail Gunner gives you 3 rear dice minus 1 green for the opponent. The net gain is worth it and Krassis already has action-economy through his effect and LRS, which he should capitalize on while rear-shooting.

 

I'd say he's the safest Imperial choice for TG, actually.

 

 

For Imperial Firespray, it's a nice boost. TG's only real competition for the spot is Agent Kallus. Paired with Slave-I/LRS, it should do something.

 

For Scum Firespray, the plethora of great crew choices is hard for TG to fit in. Both Dengar and K4 SecDroid offer action-economy. 4-LOM and Zuckuss make it extra-easy to land hits. Scum Kath can run it for sh--- and giggles but, in the end, it's an inferior choice.

 

It allows for far more flexibility then all of those. K4 locks you to your greens, Zuckuss and 4-LOM both have draw backs that really limit when and how often you can use them plus have less powerful effects and Dengar's effect while good is a lot more common, pred or and simple saved TL can replace him. Kath always wants to shoot from the rear so this basically gives her Wedge's ability backed by four dice. Its kinda meh on the other scum firesprays but Kath will be brutal with it.

 

While I can agree that K4 and Zuckuss have their hiccups, their advantages exceed a (fickle) green dice reduction. 4-LOM's cost is extremely lenient on large ships and Dengar does what Predator does on a better margin and taking a slightly less valuable spot. I just don't see TG replacing any of them but...who knows...

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While this looks good on Scum Kath, I think both Dengar and K4 are going to be better options. people already want to stay out of her rear arc and adding two points to further incentivize that means you're simply adding two points to your Firespray for two abilities that will get used less and aren't worth the affect they have on opponent's flying.

The entire point of Kath is to use her rear arc, by this logic no one should use Kath in the first place.

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While this looks good on Scum Kath, I think both Dengar and K4 are going to be better options. people already want to stay out of her rear arc and adding two points to further incentivize that means you're simply adding two points to your Firespray for two abilities that will get used less and aren't worth the affect they have on opponent's flying.

The entire point of Kath is to use her rear arc, by this logic no one should use Kath in the first place.

 

Well, to be fair, she doesn't see that much use.  

 

However, my point was that doubling down on her ability with what is an otherwise very flexible upgrade slot is not the way to go.    It tosses two points onto her already relatively inefficient point cost to add to an advantage you have that is already situation.

 

I've played her quite a bit and I find the best strategy is to use the rear arc as a bonus and not a game plan.  When I've made it a priority to try and use that rear arc, my time on target is significantly reduced and her overall damage in game is way down even though I might get a big shot in.   I believe that using Dengar, for example, is simply going to get you more damage than the tail gunner because you'll just be able to make more use out of him than the number of times you'll reduce agility with a rear shot.

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It's going to take a lot more than this to "fix" the firespray I'm afraid.

Here is what I've found after using the firespray in my games. The rear arc is nice, but one problem. Your usually flying in the opposite direction of where your opponent is going. Obviously you have other ships in your squad so after the firespray does its initial pass, he's probably not going to chase it. While you may get one or two shots from the rear your going to have to kturn, or turn around at some point which also leaves you in a vulnerable position, making it easier for some ships to hit you from the side.

Engine upgrade some will say is the answer but that comes with some issues. One is the firespray doesn't have a one turn. It's not near as nice on a ship such as the falcon, Dash, or uBoats. You have a wider turn which can be tricky if you are caught in a spot with asteroids, or other ships around

I was just thinking maybe try a kath and manaroo build, but as I was playing with it in the squad builder it just doesn't work near as well as Dengar does. No one turn, no white s-loop. No double tap etc.

Before someone mentions use her in a different squad, I'm just pointing out that with what's currently available, uBoats are better bang for your buck.

What the firespray needs to be a contender for what's already out there is more options. For starters another crew slot. The firespray is able to carry a few passengers. Better action economy. A title that gives you a free evade after doing another action of some sort. Without push the limit. Unless your able to give it more greens. A 1 turn because other than the shuttle and Decimator, every big ship can 1 turn.

So just a recap

-Extra crew

-1 turn

-More greens

-Access to the evade action without using its regular action

It doesn't have to be all those things but a mix of one or two along with something new is what I think it'll take to make the firespray a better ship.

The scum firespray is in better shape than the Imperials that is for sure. Looking at hindsight it's obvious that the bounty hunter should have an elite, and since they changed Fett's pilot ability, I get the sense he's not as good as ffg would hope for, otherwise why change it? I don't buy the "It's another faction excuse"

Even during wave 3 I was disappointed in Fett's ability. I figured the most feared bh in the Galaxy would have an amazing ability, not what I expected. Especially when compared to Dengar ability. Or Zuckuss for that matter if we look at bounty hunters.

Anyway my long rant is over. Tail gunner is not going to be enough on its own to make the firespray valuable. Especially on a big base ship where a 1 straight will move you 3 bases farther from your opponent ship vs 2 bases on a small ship.

Edit

And yes the imperial firespray definitely needs attention. I've seen some say "well it should be scum only since it's bounty hunters" but that's just a lazy excuse imo. It's there in the game as an option for Imperials, therefore so long as it's an option it should not be ignored

Edited by Krynn007

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