Can you interrupt a movement action... to take a movement action?

[Luckmann 112]

This is something that just occurred to me, but I'm away from my books on vacation.

Can you interrupt your movement action to take another movement action, immediately resolve it, and then continue with the prior movement action?

This might sound like a big fat "but why?", but I realized that when it comes to certain terrain features, this could be used to get the large monster across pits or elevation lines, interrupting movement in front of them, extending over them (without stepping into them) and then moving out of them/across them.

 

Rules-wise, avoiding things like this is usually handled by forcing the OL to declare their action before interrupting, and also have an available action to actually do (that is, if you can't attack, you can't interrupt with an attack, obviously).

I think it'd be fair - you're still spending an action. But it's also a way for monsters to completely avoid certain obstacles if they're expected to take two move actions anyway. So I'd fully expect the players to go "You cheating bastard!".

Edited July 9, 2016 by Luckmann

[Sidious78 45]

I think the rules state somewhere that when moving twice all the move points are added into one pool.

[Sidious78 45]

Page 8: "...may also decide to perform two move actions consecutively., in which case the hero receives movement points equal to twice his Speed". To OPs original question; I'd say you cannot do that.

[Luckmann 112]

Page 8: "...may also decide to perform two move actions consecutively., in which case the hero receives movement points equal to twice his Speed". To OPs original question; I'd say you cannot do that.

 

That's the rub, though, isn't it? You're not taking two move actions consecutively, you're interrupting one to take another. I read the line you quote as a clarification that you can decide to perform two move actions consecutively. And no matter what way we cut it, you'll always receive movement points equal to twice your speed; the question is whether you can interrupt a movement action to take another movement action or not, and this line doesn't touch upon that at all.

[Sidious78 45]

 

Page 8: "...may also decide to perform two move actions consecutively., in which case the hero receives movement points equal to twice his Speed". To OPs original question; I'd say you cannot do that.

 

That's the rub, though, isn't it? You're not taking two move actions consecutively, you're interrupting one to take another. I read the line you quote as a clarification that you can decide to perform two move actions consecutively. And no matter what way we cut it, you'll always receive movement points equal to twice your speed; the question is whether you can interrupt a movement action to take another movement action or not, and this line doesn't touch upon that at all.

 

 

Well, I've gotten some rule clarifications from FFG over the last few months, and the general answer seems to be that if rules are unclear and they don't specifically say you can do something, you really cannot. The rules explain large monster movement and limitiations regarding hazardous terrain, and I doubt you can go further than that.

 

This ofc, is only my opinion. If it were as the OP suggests I would be happy. I always play the OL.

[HavocDreams 33]

It is definitely possible. Has been ruled by FFG on several occasions, especially in context of large monsters. It is also possible to do 2 move actions at once to add movement points double the speed in one go.

 

Q: Can a figure interrupt its move action to perform another move action, and if so, how are the spaces moved through during the first and second move action differentiated (and what happens if a card instructs you to “end your move action”)? How do the players differentiate between spaces that were moved through due to an action and spaces that were moved through due to suffering fatigue?

A: When a figure performs a move action, that figure receives a number of movement points equal to his Speed. A figure can interrupt its move action to perform an additional move action, which gives that figure additional movement points. There is no need to differentiate the two move actions because they are both move actions. If a card instructs you to end your move action and that figure performed two move actions, then both actions end and that figure loses all unspent movement points. However, if a hero player wishes to suffer fatigue to gain movement points in the middle of a move action, he must declare exactly when he is suffering the fatigue within the move action and which spaces he moves into with those additional movement points.

 

 

source: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/13090574#13090574

Edited July 9, 2016 by HavocDreams

[Zaltyre 1,701]

FYI, it's also in the official FAQ.

As a side note, while this can get a large monster across an elevation line, across small patches of lava unharmed, and across small bits of water without spending extra MP, it is not necessary for crossing pits. Large monsters cross pits without a care. Unless the large monster is both expanded AND fully in a pit, it does not take damage or need to perform the special action to get out.

[Tintaglia 124]

Luckman is implying that you can (with a 4 movements large monster)

move 3 spaces then expand (because interruption of movement for 2nd action)
move 4 then expand (because end of 2nd action)
move 1 then expand (resume 1st action)
By that gaining the extra spaces from the 3rd expansion.
Is that possible ?

[DAMaz 151]

Luckman is implying that you can (with a 4 movements large monster)

move 3 spaces then expand (because interruption of movement for 2nd action)

move 4 then expand (because end of 2nd action)

move 1 then expand (resume 1st action)

By that gaining the extra spaces from the 3rd expansion.

Is that possible ?

 

 

I think this works more like: move 3 spaces, interrupt with move action, get additional 4 MPs, MP pool = 5, when your MP pool is exhausted your action(s) ends.

 

I never played it like that, because I found the movement with large monsters tricky enough to forecast by your opponents without this additional possibility. But I guess it's fair to use if the OL is behind and he can come back into the game by such moves.

Edited July 9, 2016 by DAMaz

[Zaltyre 1,701]

Luckman is implying that you can (with a 4 movements large monster)

move 3 spaces then expand (because interruption of movement for 2nd action)

move 4 then expand (because end of 2nd action)

move 1 then expand (resume 1st action)

By that gaining the extra spaces from the 3rd expansion.

Is that possible ?

You do not expand that second time, because you're neither interrupting nor ending an action. The way it would work is (let's assume ettin, 2x2, speed 3):

 

1) The ettin (solid red circle) performs his first move action, gaining 3 MP. He shrinks (yellow arrows) to a chosen space (dotted gray circle).

2) The ettin spends 2 MP to move (black arrows).

3) The ettin interrupts his movement to declare another action, forcing him to expand (blue arrows) and place his base on the map (solid red circle).

4) The ettin declares a second move action, gaining 3 more MP (for a total unspent pool of 4) and shrinks (yellow arrows) to a chosen space (dotted gray circle).

5) The ettin spends his remaining movement points (black arrows).

6) Having finished his movement, the ettin expands (yellow arrows, red circle).

 

He doesn't get any additional "free" spaces by expansion than he would if he performed two separate move actions. What "interrupting a move with a move" gets the large monster is the ability to expand anywhere along his path. Otherwise, heroes could really screw with large monsters by positioning themselves in particular spaces. They still can do this a bit, it's just not so easy to abuse.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Zaltyre

[Luckmann 112]

Exactly as Zaltyre so amazingly depicted and explained. Note that although the Ettin in the example only ever had 6 movement points, he's effectively moved 7-8 spaces (depending on how you count). This could be very important shenanigans for the savvy overlord, such as if you play a Dash card or want to do a Blood Rage.

FYI, it's also in the official FAQ.

As a side note, while this can get a large monster across an elevation line, across small patches of lava unharmed, and across small bits of water without spending extra MP, it is not necessary for crossing pits. Large monsters cross pits without a care. Unless the large monster is both expanded AND fully in a pit, it does not take damage or need to perform the special action to get out.

Huh, you're right, I just realized that. Furthermore, I found this interesting tidbit:

"The monster is only considered to have entered the one space in which it ended its movement."

Won't this screw with some abilities of heroes?

Edited July 9, 2016 by Luckmann

[Zaltyre 1,701]

It can, yes. If an ettin "expands" up to the wildlander, she cannot nimble away.

[Luckmann 112]

It can, yes. If an ettin "expands" up to the wildlander, she cannot nimble away.

I was actually thinking of it in another context, such as actually moving up to it, not just expanding into their space, but I guess it wouldn't really make a difference in the end - you could just choose to expand in a space prior to the one where you'd become adjacent only through expansion, anyway.

[HavocDreams 33]

He doesn't get any additional "free" spaces by expansion than he would if he performed two separate move actions. What "interrupting a move with a move" gets the large monster is the ability to expand anywhere along his path. Otherwise, heroes could really screw with large monsters by positioning themselves in particular spaces. They still can do this a bit, it's just not so easy to abuse.

 

In this context it is important to keep in mind that the OL can also interrupt a move action before spending a single movement point.

Edited July 10, 2016 by HavocDreams

[Luckmann 112]

 

He doesn't get any additional "free" spaces by expansion than he would if he performed two separate move actions. What "interrupting a move with a move" gets the large monster is the ability to expand anywhere along his path. Otherwise, heroes could really screw with large monsters by positioning themselves in particular spaces. They still can do this a bit, it's just not so easy to abuse.

 

In this context it is important to keep in mind that the OL can also interrupt a move action before spending a single movement point.

 

 

In what context would that be valuable? At first I thought it could have something to do with shrinking into one space, then interrupt to attack, effectively moving one space as part of doing so, but to interrupt movement, you must declare your intent first, and unless you're already adjacent, you can't declare a melee attack, so I think I was wrong in that assumption.

[HavocDreams 33]

Large monsters are allowed to shrink and expand without spending a movement point. Valuable if OL interrupts a movement with another movement.  Especially if there is no other possiblity to expand on other spaces on the way, this can preventing losing a "free" movement point.

Edited July 11, 2016 by HavocDreams

[Zaltyre 1,701]

Large monsters are allowed to shrink and expand without spending a movement point. Valuable if OL interrupts a movement with another movement.  Especially if there is no other possiblity to expand on other spaces on the way, this can preventing losing a the free movement point.

Right- if there were a narrow corridor for the later part of his movement, the ettin could declare the second move action right after declaring the first one, allowing him to no expand through 2 speed worth of MP.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Zaltyre

[Tintaglia 124]

Sorry for bringing up that topic, but we have some different interpretations here...

If instead of interrupting your move action with a second move action, you interrupt it with an attack action.

Saying you have a 4 spaces Monster without reach.

You move one space and enter a space close to a hero.

Deciding that to swing a fist in his face would be some kind of a nice thing to do you expand and attack.

After the attack you resume your move action.

Do you start from whatever space you expanded ?or do you have to start from the space you entered before expanding/attacking ?

thx again

[Zaltyre 1,701]

Once the monster expands and places its base on the map, the shrunken space no longer matters. After the attack is completed, it can shrink down to any of its spaces to continue the movement (this is why it was important for FFG to modify the rules about when the monster is allowed to expand).  

 

With some groups, we've implemented a house rule that forces the monster to shrink back down to the space it expanded from- but that's very definitely a house rule.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Zaltyre

[Mlai 17]

I think it'd be fair - you're still spending an action. But it's also a way for monsters to completely avoid certain obstacles if they're expected to take two move actions anyway. So I'd fully expect the players to go "You cheating bastard!".

While my first reaction to this reading of the rules was indeed "Kill the lawyer~!!"  I now realize that this implementation is actually quite thematic.  It basically simulates a giant striding over a pond, or a dragon leaping over some rubble etc.

[Tintaglia 124]

That s it then.
I think that with FFG not putting out a descent FAQ,
when mixing playgroups you have now to guess what has been house ruled by some players (who even do not know it)
and what is official.
The point is that everybody is more or less sure to have read that rule in a Forum 2 years ago,
but as nobody is able to find the thread anymore, it is never ending arguments.


 

[Jack and THE Hammer 0]

Sorry for bumping up the topic again. But what if a large monster get interrupted by an effect and he cannot be placed? He has to be interrupted before, after? he get placed in the fist avaible area?

[Zaltyre 1,701]

Sorry for bumping up the topic again. But what if a large monster get interrupted by an effect and he cannot be placed? He has to be interrupted before, after? he get placed in the fist avaible area?

If he is interrupted and cannot be placed, then he cannot be interrupted. This has been answered in a rules question to FFG (and may be in the official FAQ, I'm not sure). For example, if a shadow dragon moves next to the wildlander in a narrow hallway such that the dragon cannot be placed on the map, the wildlander cannot use nimble at that time.

[Jack and THE Hammer 0]

many many thanks

[Tvboy 3,529]

New player here, what's to stop the large monster from shrinking and expanding its way across the board over and over in the same turn without spending any movement points after a move action? Or at least expand after each movement point is spent to double or triple the distance covered.