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On 19. 5. 2017 at 3:53 PM, patrickmahan said:

I dont know what kind of people you play with, but my group aren't some competitive d-bags to pull off tactics like this.

So basically, your rebels will intentionally play poorly, so you have to poorly yourself to give them a chance? I don't mean to deride you or your friends (so I'd ask you to do the same), I'm just trying to point out that maybe IA is not the best game for your group.

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4 minutes ago, burek277 said:

So basically, your rebels will intentionally play poorly, so you have to poorly yourself to give them a chance? I don't mean to deride you or your friends (so I'd ask you to do the same), I'm just trying to point out that maybe IA is not the best game for your group.

Agreed. You really shouldn't be put off by people playing to win in a competitive game.

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People having opinions often cause other people to share their opinions.

Stopping posting your opinions keeps your opinions hidden but doesn't prevent other people sharing theirs.

What does that mean? Nothing. It's my opinion.

 

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1 hour ago, patrickmahan said:

Sigh... now i remember why I stopped posting on this forum.

Does it really bother you that much that I change some rules about the game? Sorry, but its not perfect like you may think.

I am not quite sure what you mean. Noone expects the game to be perfect, but most people who play this game will undoubdtedly play to win, as that is the objective of the game. One should expect calling other people competitive d-bags to get an answer, at the very least.

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 @patrickmahan, you asked for opinions.  I'm not sure why you're upset that you got them.

On 5/18/2017 at 5:43 PM, patrickmahan said:

So im thinking of running a campaign and cutting the agenda deck out as i feel like it has little impact, is clunky and complicates things. Perhaps to make up for that ill have access to all villians or thier agenda missions.

I may also remove any time limits the rebels have. The constant imperialforces may be enough of a motivation to move.

I MIGHT also just play imperial classless.

 

Thoughts/opinions?

 

 

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Are you for real? These guys are basically telling my friends and I to "getgud or gtfo"

Seems odd that people who think this game is so perfect and balanced would hang around in a topic that is talking about changing the rules. Unless they're just here to troll.

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28 minutes ago, patrickmahan said:

Are you for real? These guys are basically telling my friends and I to "getgud or gtfo"

Seems odd that people who think this game is so perfect and balanced would hang around in a topic that is talking about changing the rules. Unless they're just here to troll.

I can't speak for anyone else, I guess, but maybe I can help clarify.  I really don't think they're saying "getgud or gtfo".

 

From looking at the conversation, it looks like they were specifically referencing the proposed removal of a time limit.  The issue with it (and rightly so) is that it completely changes how action economy is perceived in the game.  It's not a matter of whether or not you and your friends are good, it's a matter of it giving a significant advantage to the Rebels if they choose to use it.  And maybe your Rebels wouldn't abuse it, and either way it's certain your prerogative... but again, you asked for opinions, and I think that's a pretty valid criticism of that adjustment. 

 

As for my own input, if you're still accepting opinions- if you're having trouble with the time limits, experiment a little.  See if, by adding a round or two, if the games end up getting closer.  That way, you'd have a little more wiggle room, without giving the Rebels all the time in the world to burn.

Edited by subtrendy2

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59 minutes ago, patrickmahan said:

Are you for real? These guys are basically telling my friends and I to "getgud or gtfo"

Seems odd that people who think this game is so perfect and balanced would hang around in a topic that is talking about changing the rules. Unless they're just here to troll.

Everyone breathe. Dude's got a point. Burek's response was a bit snarky. And the suggestion that if you don't play to win all the time, then you shouldn't play IA is... unhelpful. Maybe you shouldn't have called people who play to win "D-bags", but whatever. It's the Internet and we could all stand to not take things people say on it so seriously.

There are lots of ways to play this game, and the point of a thread entitled House Rules is to share new ones that we enjoy. I for one hope you don't stop posting on the forums and don't feel that you can't share your ideas to improve the game. Because no game is perfect for all people.

I do agree though that removing the time limit is going to create some balance issues. I assume that when a game (or GM) gives me tools, it is because they want me to use them. Otherwise they have just given me something to confuse me and waste my time. If you give your players the means to take as much time as they want to win the mission, sooner or later they probably will. It's not a matter of being competitive. It's a matter of playing the way the game has trained you to play. For me, the pressure to get the objective done in a given time frame is what keeps the game exciting. Otherwise there's not a lot of urgency to the game.

That said, if you want to try playtesting this idea, I'd be very interested to hear the results. Skeptical, but interested.

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The Imperial Assault campaign is set up to be competitive (as opposed to a GM facilitating the players). I find this leads to to the game encouraging you at best, and forcing you at worst to play the game in a very specific way. I've houseruled my game to the point its hardly recognisable, and its important to be aware that if you change a fundamental rule, it can have knock on effects that start changing the way the game plays.

The time limit is a part of the game I see criticised a lot, because it encourages the players to run as fast as possible to complete objectives. This isn't bad per se, but isn't what a lot of players want in every mission. Also, a bunch of rules are included to allow the players to rush - straining to move, using a surge to heal, Actions being limited so using one to Heal is a hard decision etc.

One rule I use is that instead of a hard turn limit, Threat ramps up each turn by the Threat Level + Turn Number. I use loads of other house rules though, since this changes the structure of the way the game is played a lot. Ultimately, change the rules of the game to the way your group wants to play - this game can be expensive in both time and money, so the most important thing is to get the most fun you can out of it!

Edited by RED NED

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1 hour ago, RED NED said:

The Imperial Assault campaign is set up to be competitive (as opposed to a GM facilitating the players). I find this leads to to the game encouraging you at best, and forcing you at worst to play the game in a very specific way. I've houseruled my game to the point its hardly recognisable, and its important to be aware that if you change a fundamental rule, it can have knock on effects that start changing the way the game plays.

The time limit is a part of the game I see criticised a lot, because it encourages the players to run as fast as possible to complete objectives. This isn't bad per se, but isn't what a lot of players want in every mission. Also, a bunch of rules are included to allow the players to rush - straining to move, using a surge to heal, Actions being limited so using one to Heal is a hard decision etc.

One rule I use is that instead of a hard turn limit, Threat ramps up each turn by the Threat Level + Turn Number. I use loads of other house rules though, since this changes the structure of the way the game is played a lot. Ultimately, change the rules of the game to the way your group wants to play - this game can be expensive in both time and money, so the most important thing is to get the most fun you can out of it!

I'd heard about removing the time limit, and this actually sounds like an interesting way to do it. What are the other house rules you implemented?

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I've basically redesigned the way the game is structured from the ground up, which is probably too much for most people here. I mainly game with a group of kids, or one person taking control of an entire hero team, so I simplified/streamlined a bunch of stuff in line with that style of play. My main philosophy was that the Empire (Me) is a GM. The players have choices on characters/builds etc, but the Empire doesn't choose Agendas, Class cards or which enemies to bring, this is all automated.

We don't use the campaign, but instead play 4 'Acts' that scale in difficulty against 4 different Villains. Each act is 1 Ally Mission, 1 Reward Mission and 1 Villain Mission chosen at random (Allies don't stick with you all game, but instead if you win the ally mission, you get that ally in the Villain mission of the act for free, Rewards are able to be used by anyone. This can lead to silliness with gaarkhan having mandalorian heritage which you have to make up a reason for). This means the story is more freeform, and the idea is you tell your own story as to why the missions tie together. Villains have themed enemies you use for the act (I rewrote all the missions to be compatible with any villain/ally). The usual rewards for Missions aren't used.

Heroes can only make 1 move and 1 shoot action each turn (I don't use turn limits so this stops racing across the map or 'camping').

Heroes level up at certain mission numbers. Instead of hoarding exp, after mission one you take a Level 1 Exp, then after mission 3 you take a level 2 Exp etc. This means the player is choosing between 2 cards and can't pick both. This is especially useful for younger players as it a clear simple choice.

Heroes get 2-3 items at the end of each mission instead of earning money and buying stuff (This means I changed crates so you can spend 2 move points to open them as they don't give credits now)

The Empire player must use as much Threat as possible in the deployment phase to bring out enemies from the Villain list, no hoarding it!

Villains draw a number of Agenda cards at the start of the mission equal to the 'Act level'. Use them only during that mission - this adds a bit of unpredictability.

The Empire player get a Class Card in play on the Villain Missions, themed to the Villain.

There's a bunch of other little things (like you can't move diagonally around corners, I made the starting equipment weaker, I made tons of custom enemies/villains and items) and I own all the expansions, because this way needs a lot of content for the 4 acts to scale properly if you want different games.

Edited by RED NED

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On 19. 5. 2017 at 2:53 PM, burek277 said:

They can just hide in a corner where they can't get shot at, heal up to full, take down some enemies, hide again ... 

How was my response snarky? I was just pointing out that the self-correcting approach patrick was suggesting doesn't really work. For my attempt at helping out, he called (or implied) my friends d-bags.

Whatever, play the game however you want. I just thought that if you're talking about how to improve the game, you might appreciate some feedback. I guess I was wrong.

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3 hours ago, RED NED said:

I've basically redesigned the way the game is structured from the ground up...

I'm curious if you have some previous experience as a DM. I've often wondered if someone with DM experience could use the components and basic rules of IA as the basis for a more RPG-like experience...

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I do a fair bit of roleplaying, though I'm more of a player than a DM :P. I'm a big fan of emergent storytelling, where you have a load of random pieces and they form a cool story, which I think works well for Imperial Assault.

If you take a mission and strip out all the fluff, the missions are pretty basic - With a limited time limit the Rebels run around pushing a few buttons and killing enemies that spawn in fairly predictable patterns. It's the fluff that adds the extra layer and gets people excited to rescue hidden rebels, swing lightsabers and fly away at the end in a spaceship. This means that it's fairly easy to replace things in a mission to make a different story and different gameplay.

Take 'The Spice Job' in the main book, where Chewie helps you grab spice barrels. It's a fairly simple mission and apart from chewie being overcosted and thus the mission not worth doing is pretty fun and flavourful. If you replace Chewbacca with Lando Calrissian, theme the enemies as tusken raiders and when you open the door to the barrels an Elite Nexu drops down from the ceiling you get a totally new scenario. Why is Lando wanting spice? Why do the tusken raiders have it - do they make it or have they stolen it? Maybe from Lando. And is the Nexu the tusken leaders pet? Now you have a scenario where Lando is getting back the spice that the tuskens stole and they kill the leaders pet at the end - no doubt he will want revenge!

Similarly you can replace Chewie with Leia and theme the enemies as Agent Blaise's ISB operatives and when you open the door then 2 probe droids rise to face you. It's pretty easy to figure out a story. If anything, having the random pieces make a story takes the burden off you as the host because you just string those parts together, at least it does in my experience.

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27 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:

That's good, too.  There actually are some missions where the threat level is demonstrated by the Round number.  That might be a more thematic and satisfying way to put a timer on missions.

I'm going to be moving this summer and if I start up with a new group, I'm considering letting the Rebels use multiple characters over multiple campaigns. So for instance, they could use either Mak or Saska in both the Core Box and Twin Shadows, and the threat level would be determined by either the average XP level of the players, or it would correspond in some way. So Aftermath would be for heroes with 0 XP only, and if you bring in heroes with more than that, they wouldn't get any XP for that mission, and the Imperial would get bonus threat per round, while A New Threat would be for heroes with 2 XP or less, and side missions could be for characters with anywhere from 1 - 12 XP. 

It would let the campaign run as long as I want it to by basically just doing more side/agenda missions and letting them swap out characters.

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1 minute ago, Pollux85 said:

I'm going to be moving this summer and if I start up with a new group, I'm considering letting the Rebels use multiple characters over multiple campaigns. So for instance, they could use either Mak or Saska in both the Core Box and Twin Shadows, and the threat level would be determined by either the average XP level of the players, or it would correspond in some way. So Aftermath would be for heroes with 0 XP only, and if you bring in heroes with more than that, they wouldn't get any XP for that mission, and the Imperial would get bonus threat per round, while A New Threat would be for heroes with 2 XP or less, and side missions could be for characters with anywhere from 1 - 12 XP. 

It would let the campaign run as long as I want it to by basically just doing more side/agenda missions and letting them swap out characters.

That's a really neat idea.  Any idea on how you'd determine gear and weapons?  Or rewards?

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2 hours ago, player1690582 said:

I thought the Return to Hoth final mission had a very neat way for dealing with the no-round-limit and hero resting concepts.  DOnt' want to spoil it here but it could be an interesting house rule, that could be mission threat dependent   

Makes more sense with an RPG-like system, too.

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1 hour ago, subtrendy2 said:

That's a really neat idea.  Any idea on how you'd determine gear and weapons?  Or rewards?

Some. In theory, the large number of credits and gear they'd normally be racking up could be negated because now they have to outfit twice as many characters. If I'm wrong, I could just not give them as many credits, same as the XP. I also expect that I'll need to limit the number of times or ways they can switch out equipment. Maybe they can only switch equipment after Story Missions, or maybe they can only do it with characters they are on a mission with. So if Mak, Fenn, Diala, and Gideon did Chain of Command together and the next mission was Target of Opportunity, they could only let Gaarkhan equip their weapons if he goes on that next mission with them. 

I think I'd also let the Imperial swap out Agenda decks, on the condition that they do not have any from that deck currently in their hand. 

Reward cards would likely be bound to specific heroes. 

My current layout is:

Side Missions/Agenda Missions - XP Level 1 -12

Story Missions that would normally have Threat Level 2: XP 0

Threat Level 3: XP Level 2 - 4

Threat Level 4: XP Level 4 - 8

Threat Level 5: XP Level 7 - 11

Threat Level 6: XP Level 9 - 14

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13 hours ago, RED NED said:

I do a fair bit of roleplaying, though I'm more of a player than a DM :P. I'm a big fan of emergent storytelling, where you have a load of random pieces and they form a cool story, which I think works well for Imperial Assault.

If you take a mission and strip out all the fluff, the missions are pretty basic - With a limited time limit the Rebels run around pushing a few buttons and killing enemies that spawn in fairly predictable patterns. It's the fluff that adds the extra layer and gets people excited to rescue hidden rebels, swing lightsabers and fly away at the end in a spaceship. This means that it's fairly easy to replace things in a mission to make a different story and different gameplay.

Take 'The Spice Job' in the main book, where Chewie helps you grab spice barrels. It's a fairly simple mission and apart from chewie being overcosted and thus the mission not worth doing is pretty fun and flavourful. If you replace Chewbacca with Lando Calrissian, theme the enemies as tusken raiders and when you open the door to the barrels an Elite Nexu drops down from the ceiling you get a totally new scenario. Why is Lando wanting spice? Why do the tusken raiders have it - do they make it or have they stolen it? Maybe from Lando. And is the Nexu the tusken leaders pet? Now you have a scenario where Lando is getting back the spice that the tuskens stole and they kill the leaders pet at the end - no doubt he will want revenge!

Similarly you can replace Chewie with Leia and theme the enemies as Agent Blaise's ISB operatives and when you open the door then 2 probe droids rise to face you. It's pretty easy to figure out a story. If anything, having the random pieces make a story takes the burden off you as the host because you just string those parts together, at least it does in my experience.

This sounds like a more extreme version of what I do in my games. After they lost the Core Box campaign with Gaarkhan, Gideon, Fenn and Diala, I added in a narrative where Saska, Biv, Mak, and Jyn were pursued to Tatooine. They started off doing the normal Twin Shadows campaign, but after Hunted Down, they made pals with Han Solo for a good long while, agreed to help him get rid of some bounty hunters if he helped them recruit some Rebels so they could all get off the planet. They've ended up doing Canyon Run, Into the Wastes, Back Room Bargains, Sorry About the Mess, Imperial Entanglements, Target of Opportunity, and Impounded. Throw in a few character missions, and it grew into a full sized campaign. For the finale, I'm going to have them do both Fire in the Sky and Infiltrated as one mission. Fire in the Sky will be about them storming the Star Destroyer in orbit to rescue the heroes that got captured in the Core campaign, and buying time for the Saboteurs they won in Target of Opportunity to blow up the ship. Infiltrated will be them trying to escape before the bombs go off. 

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13 hours ago, Pollux85 said:

 Gaarkhan, Gideon, Fenn and Diala,  For the finale, I'm going to have them do both Fire in the Sky and Infiltrated as one mission. Fire in the Sky will be about them storming the Star Destroyer in orbit to rescue the heroes that got captured in the Core campaign, and buying time for the Saboteurs they won in Target of Opportunity to blow up the ship. Infiltrated will be them trying to escape before the bombs go off. 

That could become chaotic but once they rescue the core heroes, you could let your rebel players control them as allies using their skrimish deployment cards.  Or they could run straight to an escape pods since they are probably out of mission shape after having being held prisoner for so long.   

I am doing something similar with Return to Hoth.  I am re-organizing missions order and customizing them a bit to follow 2 paths : Heroes will try to gather information on General Sorin's secret military project while they will also try to collect as much information as they can to help locate Han Solo who has gone missing after the events on Bespin.  I'm also trying to link some events that were part of the Empire strikes back movie in for an enhanced thematic play.

Mission 1 will be the battle of Hoth mission.  The heroes are protecting some late rebel pilots that need the secondary shield active to get to their fighters in order to escort the remaining transports.   Toward the end of the mission, an AT-ST will join the battle, as well as Luke Skywalker who's trying to reach for his X-Wing after crashing his snowspeeder ...

Mission 2 will some how continue mission 1.  It will be White Noise.  I made some change to the narrative as follow.  As the primary shield generator has been destroyed, the heroes will be asked to hold the ion cannon command center as long as they can to ensure the remaining transports and rebel fighters can escape Hoth.  Darth Vader will eventually joins in since we know from the movie that he is on the battlefield at this moment.

Mission 3 will be an X-wing miniature mission where the heroes try to escape Hoth space in their shuttle.  They will be escorted by some X-wings just like in the movie.  I'm still toying around ideas for that one but so far the rebels would have to collect a certain number of hyperspace tokens which represents the time needed to do an hyperspace jump calculation while staying alive from the imperial fleets.  Rebel players could spend an action to gain hyperspace tokens (the exact number of token gain could be related to a dice roll, with a guaranteed minimum of one token no matter the roll).  X-wing escorts would gain the Escort/Protect action to increase the odds of survivals. 

Mission 4 would be hostile takeover from Bespin Gambit.  Lando will have joined the rebellion at this point.  Feeling some guilt about his friend's being captured he would go back on an imperial subjugated Cloud City to retrieve as much information as he can to help find back Han Solo.  But Calrissian will go missing after reporting some possible secret military project the Empire are working on.  The Alliance will send the heroes to learn more about the project, and they will help free Lando and acquire information on Solo too.

Etc ...  The main plots will be linked together in each mission via some objectives or the narrative.  

So far, re-working the campaign and play-testing it for balance (although I reserve myself some DM powers to harden or soften missions on the fly if necessary, so I don't really care much about balancing issues) have proved to be a lot of fun!  And I just bought Jabba's Realm which I may use to extend beyond what I had originally planed!

 

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Just now, player1690582 said:

That could become chaotic but once they rescue the core heroes, you could let your rebel players control them as allies using their skrimish deployment cards.  Or they could run straight to an escape pods since they are probably out of mission shape after having being held prisoner for so long.   

 

 

I might let them use ONE skirmish card as an ally, but for the most part, the Core heroes are going to be weak and powerless after being held prisoner. If they are lucky, I'll let Diala keep her lightsaber.

I have no idea what I'd do with this group for Jabba's realm, and I'm actually a bit relieved I won't have to think about that. After all they've been through, I think they are ready to never set foot on Tatooine again.

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I'll take a look at that finale mission. 

Also not a house rule but i try to make my units self aware and not just braindead soldiers. AKA stormtroopers always go for cover and if they are badly wounded they try to retreat.

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