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venkelos

Assassinorum Infiltration/Exfiltration?

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Our chat on Callie-quisitor, and me flipping through the books the Assassins are in, for DH2, for fun, made me think of a little something. So, when the Imperium REALLY needs someone to die, someone really dangerous to their way of (wasting) life, they might send in an Assassinorum Operative, or, maybe, even an Execution Force (one of each Temple). Now, if I ignore the amount of times even these most well-trained Operatives fail hilariously (a name is great armor, if Mont'ka is any indicator, and yes, I know it is more likely GW will move the story along than to actually kill a named character, who actually has a model in their line; the one casulaty they DID confirm in Mont'ka really DID shock me), how do they get to Point Kill, from where I assume is Holy Terra, in the first place? If this was any other setting, I might assume they had a really small craft, maybe even a torpedo tub-like vessel, automated, and programmed with the coordinates of a planet, in question, and it would slip in quietly, depositing the Operative. If it was NOT a Callidus, maybe quick in, Kill Time!!!, quick out, and fly away, while Callie would need to hide it somewhere, sort of like Batman can hide a jet, do her business, and saunter off, in the confusion, but the works have done a good job of showing they don't always succeed, and that would leave another asset out there, while some of them might not be the most there, mentally, to pilot a craft. Eventually, they'd also have to be able to get back to Holy Terra, to heal, re-equip, debrief, and get their next assignment.

 

Then, we come back to this IS 40k, and they don't always HAVE small craft, that can warp travel, and no automation requires a crew, a Navigator, and more. Even if I ignore that most material puts the various Assassin Temples on Terra, and say they can be somewhat better spaced out, how do you get a Temple Operative to their location? How do they let you know they are done, so something can come pick them back up? None are psykers, so no Astrotelepathy, the only long-range communications most of 40 depends on, but there aren't that many of them, so they need to get back, report, and head out, again. Karrad Vall is even said to have an Eversor in a cryo-tube, wherever HE found one, still asleep. He might be the worst option. I could see a Callidus, or a Vindicare, getting back to a drop site, however they got there, and reported for a pick-up, while the Culexus...I'm not sure if they are all there, or a bit spacey, but Deadpool, the Kool-Aid Killer? Eversors, at least to me, often seem maniacal, crazed, and drugged up to their eyeballs, even if I do take 1d4chan as almost purely satirical (fun to read, though ;) ). Even if they do succeed, and kill everything that saw them, in a way that didn't result in the Terminus Gland getting them martyr points, is s/he really to be expected to calm down enough to shamble to an extraction point, and wait for pickup? A pickup team they won't just ace, on sight? Professional? Yes, but I'm still not sure. I might be able to see one get dropped ala Astartes' favorite deployment method, if the fit is already blessing the shan, or maybe even crazy-pilot a Thunderhawk, if they are outgunned, otherwise (hilarity would ensue), but I can't see how they get prodded back into their cryo-tanks, and loaded back up, to be sent home, and by whom? Is it Inquisitors, with brave men, and really stealthy ships (Inquisitors USUALLY don't have)?

 

Blah, blah, blah. How does the Imperium get their Assassins around, keep tabs, to a degree, on their progress, and pick them back up, potentially in what is still a deteriorating warzone, in order to make their purported numbers, and possible failures, still have them be capable of their job? Thanks, and have a good one!

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The old 3rd edition Codex Assassins mentions the use of starships, although it does not provide specifics. I would surmise that like with a number of major Imperial Adepta (in addition to the Navy we know of the Space Marines, the Sisters of Battle, the Adeptus Arbites, the Mechanicus, the Inquisition and the Astra Telepathica), the Officio Assassinorum maintains their own fleets -- either dedicated "shadow ships" protected against long range detection to the best of the Imperium's abilities, or disguised civilian ships, or even just a network of trustworthy traders on whose haulers an assassin may hitch a ride under false identity. Or perhaps a mix of all these options, depending on whether the mission objective can be reached by travelling under an alias, or whether existence of a blockade/quarantine would require an even stealthier approach.

 

The method of travel would then also determine ultimate arrival and departure. If travelling under a false identity, the assassin may just disembark like any other passenger, prepare the assassination, and then just depart again after killing their target, possibly after having waited a bit until it was safe to do so. From what I've read, the operatives of the Assassin Temples are incredibly skilled in terms of deception; the codex even has a short story bit about a Callidus lady successfully masquerading as a macho male mercenary (polymorphine is one hell of a drug).

 

Alternatively, for an entirely "black" approach using unregistered, unmarked and possibly undetectable ships, they might just use a teleporter -- stuff like this is rare tech, but considering the crazy weapons the operative is equipped with, it's actually pretty tame! The graphic novel Daemonifuge could be an example for such an incident.

 

eEHxO.jpg3PdrB.jpg

 

Bonus: Using a tellyport would also allow for relatively save recovery of the more "unstable" operatives (like the one above) in that you could just beam him/her into a specially prepared chamber to more or less instantly put them on ice until they're needed again.

 

Alternatively, they could just be implanted with a device that renders them harmless during pick-up, a bit like the "pacification hoods" used to calm down parked Arco-Flagellants. All you need is to somehow get them to the evac zone, but I'm going to assume that the use of more unconventional operatives already includes appropriate planning for pick-up (where the assassin might just kill everyone they see and needs to be extracted manually, which would be made easier due to reduced resistance by local security ... as they're already dead or at the very least quite busy with the monster you unleashed).

 

Then, we come back to this IS 40k, and they don't always HAVE small craft, that can warp travel, and no automation requires a crew, a Navigator, and more.

 

Well, personally I would agree, but in FFG's version of the setting, the Deathwatch apparently has fully automated "Kill-ships" that have no crew and no Navigator. Oh yeah, and they're also totally undetectable -- built to sneak into a system to unleash Exterminatus on unsuspecting worlds before withdrawing again unseen.

 

Don't ask me, but I guess this would be an ideal option for the Assassinorum, too, if you can accept this sort of stuff into your 40k.

Edited by Lynata

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Horus Heresy novel: Nemesis

 

You get to see a kill team being recruted and in action including the no-TT-rules-available clade Vanus.

 

And in the novel the eversors are scary. (even to the other assassins!) Think khorne berzerker whitout Khorne. They know what they are and they enjoy it. :D

 

I think they had a small stealthed spaceship with servitor crew.

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In one of the Horus Heresy books they deal with this to some extent. In that book they did have a small craft sized vessel that was warp capable. (Iincluding a Navigator)

 

There are simpler options though: It would not be too far of a stretch to believe that there might be some sort of Assassin temple at least in each sector. Assuming this is so, It's not unreasonable to assume that most assassins could travel via commercial transport or perhaps an Inquisitorial courier vessel.

 

Deployment would likely also involve a very stealthy insertion tailored to the nature of the assassin. Vindicares and Culexus could be inserted via drop pod or something similar or even teleportarium given the nature of the resources available to those who might deploy one. A Callidus would not be worth her name if she could not get through spaceport security While an Eversor would probably be shipped as cargo in a heavily shielded container.

 

It is also important to note that Assassins generally prefer NOT to act too quickly so setting up for the strike could be a fairly time consuming process.

 

Finally, Retrieval could be accomplished in any number of ways but the Temples would prefer those that maintain a high level of subtlety. Even the Eversore would be "Programmed" to return to it's cocoon after the job was done (If he survives.). Said Cocoon would probably be set up at a dead drop location that is checked every so often by temple agents after they know the job was completed. (And they WILL know! Eversores are not subtle tools when they strike!). Of course, the Eversore is generally going to be far more skilled in escape and evade tactics than one might think! The only point of difficulty for the eversore is the Compulsion to return before their supply of drugs wears off. (It was stated in the book that the cocoon is the only form of release from pain that they know!

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For the Eversor, if maybe less the other Assassins, I suppose I could see them having a verbal "disarming command", if you will, sort of like Winter Soldier, in Civil War. If they did their job, there isn't anyone left to follow them to the extraction point, and then the Inquisitor, their agent, or another person seconded to the Assassinorum, specifically for this type of thing, could approach Deadpool, and "you broke my mason plate", putting him into a static mode, perhaps engaging some device inside his head, like a pacification unit, whatever, and then he'd be placid enough to load back up.

 

I suppose I can accept that the Temples have some access to small, fast, stealthy ships, but it leaves me with a little problem; if the Assassinorum has them, why is it so hard for Inquisitors, with all their everything, to get one, any ship, of any kind? I suppose you could say an Inquisitor is a word away from having a ship (talk to the Captain, let slip your job title), but even when Ascension snuck out, those "epic level", full on Inquisitors couldn't get ships of their own; they were required to get along with the other agencies of the Imperium, like the Guard do, when they need to ask the Navy for a ride, or a Charist Captain. Some huge Inquisitors might have mostly control of one, even a fleet, if they are Coteaz, but Rogue Trader seemed to be the spot where they finally got to add the extra bonus "oh, and you get to command your own STARSHIP, and it's YOURS!!!" Oh well, whatevs. ;)

 

Mostly, it just seems weird that whatever gets them there can, and knows to fetch them, later, when it's done, and can. There are whole planets the Imperium has lost track of WITH the benefit of Astrotelepathy, and at least the Vindicare, and certainly the Callidus, might take days, even weeks, if they EVER succeed, possibly on a world where NO humans live, to say nothing of an astropath, or two, who survived the chaos. Oh well, I'm just glad THAT it works. I still have a little "yes, I'm a jerk" card in my back pocket, called Callidus Operative, for if I ever run Rogue Trader, and the group REALLY goes heresy. I'll still want it to be fun, certainly, but the feel would be off if the Imperium didn't seem to act when you take a ship, burn some worlds, and openly worship the Ruinous Powers. That Rogue Trader will be very surprised when their second kills them with a phase sword.

Edited by venkelos

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I suppose I can accept that the Temples have some access to small, fast, stealthy ships, but it leaves me with a little problem; if the Assassinorum has them, why is it so hard for Inquisitors, with all their everything, to get one, any ship, of any kind? I suppose you could say an Inquisitor is a word away from having a ship (talk to the Captain, let slip your job title), but even when Ascension snuck out, those "epic level", full on Inquisitors couldn't get ships of their own; they were required to get along with the other agencies of the Imperium, like the Guard do, when they need to ask the Navy for a ride, or a Charist Captain. Some huge Inquisitors might have mostly control of one, even a fleet, if they are Coteaz, but Rogue Trader seemed to be the spot where they finally got to add the extra bonus "oh, and you get to command your own STARSHIP, and it's YOURS!!!" Oh well, whatevs. ;)

 

 

That's more a case of errors in the RPG. But background wise there's a reason why some inquisitiors can't/wont use "inquisition-only" spacecraft. The answer is... the inquisition!

 

Maybe the inquisitor in question is of faction A and most other inquisitors in the sector are factions B and C. Any they might flat out refuse you a ship. Or you don't want them to find out that (and why) you need a spaceship (for). The ship could be monitored/tracked (or come with a free hidden Eversor assassin. ;) ) So Inquisitors will end up using their own forms of transportation.

 

Also we know the inquisition has those ships, but not how many. Maybe there's one for every 100 inquisitors and there's a huge waiting list? :D

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It would not be too far of a stretch to believe that there might be some sort of Assassin temple at least in each sector.

 

That suggests there would be a lot of Assassins, which may be at odds with how they are represented at least in GW studio fluff. To the best of my knowledge, there have never been specific numbers, but considering that every single deployment must, by Imperial Decree, be ratified by 2/3 majority vote of the High Lords of Terra, it does sound as if such operations are comparatively rare, which also suits to the post-Marine level kind of gear they employ.

 

Of course, the Senatorum can be circumvented by powerful Inquisitors simply requisitioning an Assassin, but this sounds like something that would require a good deal of influence (limiting the number of Inquisitors pulling such a move) and would only be done for extraordinary cases.

 

If you want to look for something more common and prevalent, this is where Death Cults come into play. The Calixis sector has at least one, for example.

 

Said Cocoon would probably be set up at a dead drop location that is checked every so often by temple agents after they know the job was completed. (And they WILL know! Eversores are not subtle tools when they strike!). Of course, the Eversore is generally going to be far more skilled in escape and evade tactics than one might think! The only point of difficulty for the eversore is the Compulsion to return before their supply of drugs wears off. (It was stated in the book that the cocoon is the only form of release from pain that they know!

 

I guess if the Eversor is "trained" to associate this cocoon with release from pain, all it takes for them to become active would be for the cocoon to stop providing this benefit. Like an animal, the Assassin knows instinctively that they need to accomplish the mission before being allowed to return and feel reprieve again.

 

I really like this cocoon idea, by the way! I usually shy away from including novel stuff into my 40k, but this is one of those cases that really feel like a worthwhile addition. :)

 

For the Eversor, if maybe less the other Assassins, I suppose I could see them having a verbal "disarming command", if you will, sort of like Winter Soldier, in Civil War. If they did their job, there isn't anyone left to follow them to the extraction point, and then the Inquisitor, their agent, or another person seconded to the Assassinorum, specifically for this type of thing, could approach Deadpool, and "you broke my mason plate", putting him into a static mode, perhaps engaging some device inside his head, like a pacification unit, whatever, and then he'd be placid enough to load back up.

 

A valid possibility. Such keywords can be implanted into an operative's subconscious, and they are apparently in use for Arco-Flagellants as well.

 

I suppose I can accept that the Temples have some access to small, fast, stealthy ships, but it leaves me with a little problem; if the Assassinorum has them, why is it so hard for Inquisitors, with all their everything, to get one, any ship, of any kind?

 

It isn't, as such. As you pointed out, "some huge Inquisitors" do have their own ships or even fleets permanently seconded to them. Indeed, going by BFG, the Inquisition has its own class of cruiser. The thing is that unlike with the Temples, the Inquisitors have several tiers of importance, and they keep judging one another, so even though every single Inquisitor has theoretically unlimited authority, they have to be wary not to overstep these invisible boundaries lest they face criticism from senior Inquisitors, who may believe a junior Inquisitor is deliberately squandering valuable war resources by needlessly denying a warship from the Navy when it would be better used elsewhere.

 

Furthermore, some Inquisitors simply prefer to operate covertly (which is where the focus of Dark Heresy lies), so it makes sense to travel under alias and using less over resources. A militant Inquisitor dropping into a system using their own Black Ship can happen, but obviously this would significantly affect any attempts to mask their presence thereafter. And even if an Inquisitor hijacks a Navy ship, this is going to be logged somewhere. And even if the Inquisitor just takes control without allowing anyone to lodge an official report, the ship going missing will lead to the Navy trying to find out what happened, and questions will arise once it reappears somewhere.

It's just not as easy as it may seem at first.

 

[edit] I see Mr. Graves just ninja'dcallidus'd me on this one. :D

Edited by Lynata

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About the eversor: this is (in my own words) what happens at some point in the novel:

 

So between mission, they keep them eversors on cryostasis in area 51 type complex in the (relative) middle of knowhere.

During the pre-mission prep something goes wrong and one wakes up out of cryo without any mission parameters.

Never mind that this guy would realise he's inside an imperial facility- they are probably used against renegades and traitors for that not to matter. This happens:

 

A normal assassin would go: "Huh, I woke up in clade's facilty and these guys seem to be loyal, Also I've got no clue what my mission or my target is. Something must have gone wrong."

 

What the eversor does: " I am awake! KILLING TIME!"

 

The killteam even states that unless they stop this guy, by nightfall every nearby settlement (on Terra btw!) will be a slaughterhouse!

 

The eversor even takes on the callidus- knowing she's a callidus. While she's telling him whats going on and to stand down.

And his response boils down to; "Yeah, I have an inkling, but programmed to ignore you. And I really wanna kill you!"

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It would not be too far of a stretch to believe that there might be some sort of Assassin temple at least in each sector.

 

That suggests there would be a lot of Assassins, which may be at odds with how they are represented at least in GW studio fluff. To the best of my knowledge, there have never been specific numbers, but considering that every single deployment must, by Imperial Decree, be ratified by 2/3 majority vote of the High Lords of Terra, it does sound as if such operations are comparatively rare, which also suits to the post-Marine level kind of gear they employ.

 

Of course, the Senatorum can be circumvented by powerful Inquisitors simply requisitioning an Assassin, but this sounds like something that would require a good deal of influence (limiting the number of Inquisitors pulling such a move) and would only be done for extraordinary cases.

 

If you want to look for something more common and prevalent, this is where Death Cults come into play. The Calixis sector has at least one, for example.

 

Or a 2/3 majority might be required to authorize said requisition.

 

Btw: one temple per sector (Not subsector) still leaves the number in the thousands at most! Considering there are a little more than a Million Space Marines operating in a galaxy with multiple trillions of humans, I don't think suggesting that their might be a few thousand Assassins (Total!) is all that unreasonable. Death cults are in fact much more numerous than that!

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Btw: one temple per sector (Not subsector) still leaves the number in the thousands at most!

 

I think that number would be too high.

 

There are a thousand Marine Chapters, and you don't have one in every sector. Considering that this means there have to be more than a thousand sectors, and each Temple would have to have a number of operatives (including senior assassins training new recruits), the number just "feels" too bloated for what they represent.

 

Looking at the Force Disposition Chart for the Third War for Armageddon, the number of Officio Assassinorum operatives is sadly redacted, but the Officio Sabatorum (a sister adeptus focused on sabotage of key strategic assets, as opposed to the Assassinorum's killing of enemy leaders) had a mere 34 (21 after the Season of Fire) operatives active on this multi-system theatre. This is compared to several thousands of Space Marines and several hundreds of Battle Sisters pulled together from across Imperial space.

 

tl;dr: Space Marines are often touted as being ultra-rare due to their role as "the elite" in the franchise, yet there are Imperial forces that are much less numerous still.

 

But yeah, of course this is still just my own interpretation of the material! Opinions will vary, etc.

Edited by Lynata

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Btw: one temple per sector (Not subsector) still leaves the number in the thousands at most!

 

I think that number would be too high.

 

There are a thousand Marine Chapters, and you don't have one in every sector. Considering that this means there have to be more than a thousand sectors, and each Temple would have to have a number of operatives (including senior assassins training new recruits), the number just "feels" too bloated for what they represent.

 

Looking at the Force Disposition Chart for the Third War for Armageddon, the number of Officio Assassinorum operatives is sadly redacted, but the Officio Sabatorum (a sister adeptus focused on sabotage of key strategic assets, as opposed to the Assassinorum's killing of enemy leaders) had a mere 34 (21 after the Season of Fire) operatives active on this multi-system theatre. This is compared to several thousands of Space Marines and several hundreds of Battle Sisters pulled together from across Imperial space.

 

tl;dr: Space Marines are often touted as being ultra-rare due to their role as "the elite" in the franchise, yet there are Imperial forces that are much less numerous still.

 

But yeah, of course this is still just my own interpretation of the material! Opinions will vary, etc.

 

 

 

Btw: one temple per sector (Not subsector) still leaves the number in the thousands at most!

 

I think that number would be too high.

 

There are a thousand Marine Chapters, and you don't have one in every sector. Considering that this means there have to be more than a thousand sectors, and each Temple would have to have a number of operatives (including senior assassins training new recruits), the number just "feels" too bloated for what they represent.

 

Looking at the Force Disposition Chart for the Third War for Armageddon, the number of Officio Assassinorum operatives is sadly redacted, but the Officio Sabatorum (a sister adeptus focused on sabotage of key strategic assets, as opposed to the Assassinorum's killing of enemy leaders) had a mere 34 (21 after the Season of Fire) operatives active on this multi-system theatre. This is compared to several thousands of Space Marines and several hundreds of Battle Sisters pulled together from across Imperial space.

 

tl;dr: Space Marines are often touted as being ultra-rare due to their role as "the elite" in the franchise, yet there are Imperial forces that are much less numerous still.

 

But yeah, of course this is still just my own interpretation of the material! Opinions will vary, etc.

 

But (Just beating a dead horse here) would 34-35 Temple Assassins in the Calixis sector seem to high? This is a sector that contains some twenty-some odd Hive worlds, Half a dozen forge worlds (Which are at least the equivalent of hive worlds themselves!) and at least one chapter of the Adeptus Astartes! you wouldn't have enough of them for there to be even one on every major world in the sector much less the minor ones! Does it still seem too high? Also bear in mind that Armageddon was one system. I'm referring to one Temple per sector. 

 

If that still seems too many; how many would you suggest? (Not being a wise guy! I really am curious! :) )

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But (Just beating a dead horse here) would 34-35 Temple Assassins in the Calixis sector seem to high?

 

For me, personally? Yes, I think so. You're talking about 34-35 guys/gals who are doing nothing but training all day long on the off-chance that some day, a dozen politicians on faraway Terra decide that enough gak has hit the fan on their doorstep to actually get together, have a vote, and greenlight deployment. I mean, given the number of sectors in the Imperium, how many assassinations would you think the Senatorum Imperialis decides on average per year, in addition to their usual business?

 

Not to mention the amount of relic-level wargear that is kept locked away until needed. Do you think there's tens of thousands of C'tan phase swords in circulation, just because some day, someone like Hax might go traitor and the Assassinorum believes they have to have an operative ready on the doorstep rather than sending them out from further away?

 

Calixis is a sector at peace (relatively, insofar as an Imperial sector can be expected to be at peace); there just isn't anything for them to do. Temple Assassins are the sort of people you call when you really need to kill a Marine Primarch, or an important governor, or sabotage the war effort of entire armies. If you just want to silently pick off some random nobles or adeptus officials, that's what you've got Death Cults for.

 

On a sidenote, the Third War for Armageddon was not limited to a single system; surrounding systems were caught up in the campaign as well, and Assassinorum operatives may have been active there, too, just like the Navy, the Marines and the Guard were. To my knowledge, only the Sororitas stayed on Armageddon itself, likely due to their low numbers (in combination with conventional military tactics) and operational focus.

 

and at least one chapter of the Adeptus Astartes!

 

In FFG's retconned Calixis, mind you. Back when it was still Black Industries, the only evidence of Astartes in the sector was a deserted Black Templars outpost, and a lone Dreadnought guarding some shrine.

 

There's been quite an inflation when it comes to supposedly rare things in this RPG ever since FFG took over. Other examples would be the number of Battle Sisters being increased by a factor of x100: 50 in DH Core (which was said to be a large enough deployment that it actually caused local nobles to worry what was going on, now 5.000 thanks to Book of Martyrs (which would constitute 1/6 of all the Major Orders, going by GW's own numbers). Inquisitors themselves were basically stumbling over one another, too. And let's not even talk about what they did with the Deathwatch.

 

Of course, if you're going by these numbers, I suppose a couple dozen or even a couple hundred Assassins may be fair game! Just saying that such numbers may look odd when you compare them to codex fluff. It'll come down to which version of the setting you think makes more sense and/or will be more fun to play in.

 

In this case you should probably account for all six Temples, though, to have all types of Assassins available for your players. Just like for some reason all six Major Orders of the Sisters of Battle have now sent forces to the Calixis sector, as per FFG's new description.

 

If that still seems too many; how many would you suggest? (Not being a wise guy! I really am curious! :) )

 

Phew, I admit I never really thought about this much until now...  :huh:

 

But come to think about it, why do we even assume there's more than six Temples? We know that the Officio Assassinorum used to be concentrated on Terra, and it was only after the Wars of Vindication in the closing days of M36 that they were split apart to prevent the spread of corruption. So if in the first 6,000 years after the Emperor's death the Temples didn't feel like expanding, why should they suddenly start to expand in the 4,000 years that follow?

 

They probably do have outposts to store emergency caches and provide more exotic training conditions (the Thorian Sourcebook references one such facility in connection with the Virenus Gambit), but all in all I really wouldn't expect their assets to be as widespread as, say, the Space Marines'.

 

If in terms of (rough) numbers we have

  • 1 Space Marine for each of the Million Worlds
  • 1 Battle Sister for each of the hundred thousand systems
  • 1 Titan for each of the ten thousand sub-sectors

then, just assuming there is some sort of rule here, maybe we have

  • 1 Assassin for each of the thousand sectors? (albeit obviously not in each sector itself, but clustered somewhere, and divided into the 6 Temples, so .. 150-200 Assassins per Temple?)

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I mean, given the number of sectors in the Imperium, how many assassinations would you think the Senatorum Imperialis decides on average per year, in addition to their usual business?

 

For what it's worth, I always assumed that they'd be rubber-stamping a bucketload of assassinations every single day, handling it all quickly to get on with the business of actually running the Imperium. But this might just have been because back then I still played 40k TT and was trying to justify the inclusion of an assassin into a 1500-point army.

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Granted, this being 40k, I have to admit that this sounds deliciously grimdark, too. ;)

 

It also evokes the thought of a super-dystopian version of people getting mistaken by the TSA at airports because their name is on the US' terror list.

 

Vindicare: "Ohhh, so you wanted me to shoot Lufgt Huron, not Luft Horran?"

High Lords: "Sry, typo must've slipped through."

-- excerpt from a post-mission debrief shortly before the Badab War

Edited by Lynata

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I'd imagine, personally, that there is only one temple, each, period. I'm not sure if they are all still on Earth, as various stuff has hinted that the Culexus Temple is not, and the Eldar would desperately like to know where it is, instead, while some stuff I've read makes it sound like, after a few of their own civil wars, and ruining whole wings of the Imperial Palace, they were all moved offworld, to prevent anyone from having unilateral control over them, like they split up the Army into the Navy, and the Guard. I'm actually completely willing to imagine that there are more Grey Knights, in the galaxy, than there are Assassinorum Operatives, of all four temples, and if they weren't on Holy Terra, it seems slightly hard, at least for me, to imagine the Sentatorum Imperialis having the control over them; High Lords of Terra, or not, these are people with so much power they are delegating important decision-making power to others regarding things happening ON HOLY TERRA! Granted, I whined about how they get these Assassins from Terra to, say Calixis, on a far edge of the galaxy, or they sent four into Tau-controlled space, but I'm willing to see bits of it as authors not lining things up, and pulling a Tau (forgetting how large the galaxy actually is), as much as anything else. These are among some of the rarest people in the universe, and that stands, even excluding the Culexus, who need to start with a genetic condition that is less than 1/10,000,000,000, and not get killed by their neighbors, or swept up by Inquisitors as walking psychic hoods (much easier than surviving the training to become Culexus). I'm relatively sure, at least, that there are NOT little outposts of these, scattered around; these aren't Eldar Aspect Shrines, where each Craftworld has several, possibly one of each of the main Aspects; these are secret institutions, to be used against one's own people, and only a very few manage to survive.

 

Of course, this is my opinion. You might find official stuff that contradicts this, and then I might find more that contradicts that, though without supporting this; it's the joys of GW, some days. ;)

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Granted, I whined about how they get these Assassins from Terra to, say Calixis, on a far edge of the galaxy, or they sent four into Tau-controlled space, but I'm willing to see bits of it as authors not lining things up, and pulling a Tau (forgetting how large the galaxy actually is), as much as anything else.

 

Well, we also don't really know how fast they could actually travel! It's been said that the Major Orders of the Sisters of Battle can reach the edge of Imperial space within 6 weeks -- and half these Orders is located on Terra, and the other half on Ophelia VII. Yet considering how often you see these specific Orders pop up in various important battles all across Imperial space, getting around would be much the same issue for them as it'd be for the Assassins. Same for the Ultramarines, who also have a habit of showing up almost anywhere.

 

Yeah, space is big, but who can say how fast Imperial ships can actually be? Something to ponder about:

  • The Milky Way galaxy has a diameter of roughly 100,000 light years.

     

  • 2E Codex Imperial Guard mentions that "10,000 light years can be traversed within 10-40 days by warp-capable craft".

So maybe it is less that some authors forget how big the galaxy is, but that other authors forgot or aren't aware of GW's original fluff on the speed of Imperial ships. ;)

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Granted, I whined about how they get these Assassins from Terra to, say Calixis, on a far edge of the galaxy, or they sent four into Tau-controlled space, but I'm willing to see bits of it as authors not lining things up, and pulling a Tau (forgetting how large the galaxy actually is), as much as anything else.

 

Well, we also don't really know how fast they could actually travel! It's been said that the Major Orders of the Sisters of Battle can reach the edge of Imperial space within 6 weeks -- and half these Orders is located on Terra, and the other half on Ophelia VII. Yet considering how often you see these specific Orders pop up in various important battles all across Imperial space, getting around would be much the same issue for them as it'd be for the Assassins. Same for the Ultramarines, who also have a habit of showing up almost anywhere.

 

Yeah, space is big, but who can say how fast Imperial ships can actually be? Something to ponder about:

  • The Milky Way galaxy has a diameter of roughly 100,000 light years.

     

  • 2E Codex Imperial Guard mentions that "10,000 light years can be traversed within 10-40 days by warp-capable craft".

So maybe it is less that some authors forget how big the galaxy is, but that other authors forgot or aren't aware of GW's original fluff on the speed of Imperial ships. ;)

 

 

Don't forget this is WARP TRAVEL we're talking here, people. Ships can turn up centuries later... or before they have left.

 

Okay, that's one extreme example, but with time flowing in all directions in the warp it is possible for a standard 5 week  trip to be completed in (let's pick a random number) 36 hours.

 

And it's the inquisition: maybe they got some secret "make ship go trough warp faster" tech (possibly taken from the traitor legions) onboard.

Edited by Robin Graves

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Granted, this being 40k, I have to admit that this sounds deliciously grimdark, too. ;)

 

It also evokes the thought of a super-dystopian version of people getting mistaken by the TSA at airports because their name is on the US' terror list.

 

Vindicare: "Ohhh, so you wanted me to shoot Lufgt Huron, not Luft Horran?"

High Lords: "Sry, typo must've slipped through."

-- excerpt from a post-mission debrief shortly before the Badab War

 

In my (admitedly twisted) mind they are even worse.

 

Eversor: "DeR WeRE tArGetS. Now nO MoRe TaRGets. WanT MoRe TArgeTs" *drools*

 

or

 

Master of assassins: "No, no no! I said kill FOR the Emperor! Not kill the Emperor!"

 

:D

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Don't forget this is WARP TRAVEL we're talking here, people. Ships can turn up centuries later... or before they have left.

 

Yeah, but apparently (at least as per codex fluff) there's still such a thing as an ETA, average travel times, you name it. The "all bets are off" situation when it comes to arrivals is when a ship gets caught in a warp storm or the Navigator messes up, but this is a risk, not something to be expected.

 

In a weird way, I suppose it really is comparable to Age of Sail naval travel between continents, except that instead of ships being weeks or month late, you sometimes have ships being years or centuries late, or too early. As a setting, 40k often takes close inspiration from the real world and then just dials things up to the extreme.

 

Coincidentally, 3E Codex Assassins actually mentioned a case of time distortion interfering with an operative's mission: 

 

"Urhua Thereaux, Assassin of the Venenum Temple, was dispatched in 563.M37 to assassinate the renegade Governor Yawell, ruler of the planet Morisha on the Eastern Fringe. During transit, her starship was caught in a warp rift, holding the vessel in temporal stasis for some six hundred and ninety-eight years. Not knowing that this had occurred, Thereaux proceeded to her target, only to find Yawll long since dead and replaced by an anti-Imperial democratic committee, consisting of some 1,000 members. Faced with such an extreme task, Thereaux only succeeded in killing the committee members after spending three days poisoning all the chairs in the council's auditorium before a meeting of the full committee."

 

Talk about dedication! :D

 

Master of assassins: "No, no no! I said kill FOR the Emperor! Not kill the Emperor!"

 

Now I've got this weird mental image of a creepy half-cyborg killer sitting in front of their boss, and the latter being like: "BAD assassin, BAD!" as if talking to a puppy... :P

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things like this:

 

A savage kick sends the last standing Custodes falling to the ground, his helm caved in and blood leaking into his eyes. The last thing he sees before momenteraly blacking out is a lone Eversor assassin, his limbs a blur of chem enhanced motion take an enormous leap on to the golden throne and the quiet form of the Emperor!

 

When he regains his conciousness the custodes weakly stumbles towards the golden throne, steeling himself for what must surely be a scene of catastrophic horror, only to see...

 

The once raving assassin sit quietly in the Emperors lap, like a child on his grandpappy's knee.

 

A voice fills the minds of all in the throne room: "+++ HOHOHO! you gave me quite  a start you naughty little assassin! Still I can't be to mad, finally got some exitement around here! Say, your head looks a bit like mine. I find that funny.+++"

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things like this:

 

A savage kick sends the last standing Custodes falling to the ground, his helm caved in and blood leaking into his eyes. The last thing he sees before momenteraly blacking out is a lone Eversor assassin, his limbs a blur of chem enhanced motion take an enormous leap on to the golden throne and the quiet form of the Emperor!

 

When he regains his conciousness the custodes weakly stumbles towards the golden throne, steeling himself for what must surely be a scene of catastrophic horror, only to see...

 

The once raving assassin sit quietly in the Emperors lap, like a child on his grandpappy's knee.

 

A voice fills the minds of all in the throne room: "+++ HOHOHO! you gave me quite  a start you naughty little assassin! Still I can't be to mad, finally got some exitement around here! Say, your head looks a bit like mine. I find that funny.+++"

Robin; You've been watching the "Emperor's text to speech" videos haven't you? ;)  :rolleyes:

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