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Pro Level TIE Swarming: Dallas Parker Fresno Regional Finals

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Do you want to see how a TIE Swarm is flown by the pros?  Check out the final match of the Fresno Regionals where Dallas takes on triple U-Boats.  

CLICK HERE FOR THE VIDEO

Texx's Squad

Ron's Squad


Big shout out to Trinity Squadron for making the awesome video and Crazy Squirrel Games for hosting the awesome tournament.

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And again we see the boats player failing to see that the only way to beat a Swarm is to split up. Jousting it is sheer suicide. Laziness or inexperience.

Or a game starting at 130 am after being there since 9 am. Definitely not that.

Fair enough, might be a factor, but just jousting it...

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Fair enough, might be a factor, but just jousting it...

Both lists are jousters, splitting them or not wouldn't accomplish much. Ryan had a few mistakes once the furbal happened, but again I'm chalking that up to tiredness. They both wanted a joust, the Us at long range, the TIEs at short. As we can see, the TIEs got what they wanted.

Edit: Also I call witch craft on Dallas and his captain planet roll summoning.

Edited by Hujoe Bigs

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Fair enough, might be a factor, but just jousting it...

Both lists are jousters, splitting them or not wouldn't accomplish much. Ryan had a few mistakes once the furbal happened, but again I'm chalking that up to tiredness. They both wanted a joust, the Us at long range, the TIEs at short. As we can see, the TIEs got what they wanted.

Edit: Also I call witch craft on Dallas and his captain planet roll summoning.

Good sir, he was playing the wonderful Ron Manfredgensen, not this "Ryan" of which you speak lol

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Fair enough, might be a factor, but just jousting it...

Both lists are jousters, splitting them or not wouldn't accomplish much. Ryan had a few mistakes once the furbal happened, but again I'm chalking that up to tiredness. They both wanted a joust, the Us at long range, the TIEs at short. As we can see, the TIEs got what they wanted.

 

 

this is not true, and is exactly what i meant when i said lazy play.  in all my games against the boats at Yavin (with my swarm), the boats stayed together.  one guy didn't joust, but he still kept them together.  they all died horribly because even after the first engage, i could easily block and kill them.  at the very least my ships were facing the right way!

 

in my practice games against some excellent boat players in the 186th, i lost each and every game where the boat player split at the start, forcing me to go after one boat, and leaving the other two free to move and shoot while i had to turn around. 

 

the boats have one of the best dials in the game, and are hugely versatile.  why so many players are fixed into this jousting mentality is beyond me. 

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Fair enough, might be a factor, but just jousting it...

Both lists are jousters, splitting them or not wouldn't accomplish much. Ryan had a few mistakes once the furbal happened, but again I'm chalking that up to tiredness. They both wanted a joust, the Us at long range, the TIEs at short. As we can see, the TIEs got what they wanted.

Edit: Also I call witch craft on Dallas and his captain planet roll summoning.

 

I wouldn't call u-boats jousters, certainly not in the traditional mould.  They CAN joust, but they don't particularly want to, they want to kite and snipe from range 3.  Especially against a list that can delete a u-boat in a turn from range 1 or 2.  They're more than capable of flanking a swarm and shooting it without taking return fire, but they look here like they're just charging.

They're a LOT more mobile than the swarm, they need to take advantage of that.

 

I'd expect swarms to do very well against boats, just because the swarm is good at absorbing torps and throws SO much firepower, but straight-up jousting with them plays right into their hands.

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Fair enough, might be a factor, but just jousting it...

Both lists are jousters, splitting them or not wouldn't accomplish much. Ryan had a few mistakes once the furbal happened, but again I'm chalking that up to tiredness. They both wanted a joust, the Us at long range, the TIEs at short. As we can see, the TIEs got what they wanted.

Edit: Also I call witch craft on Dallas and his captain planet roll summoning.

 

Atr is an excellent tie-swarmer himself - I watched a few of his games at Yavin when he took 1st place, so I'm keen to hear what he says... So can you elaborate on why splitting your scouts is the better choice against a tie swarm atr?

 

edit: ah, never mind, thanks!

Edited by banjobenito

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Fair enough, might be a factor, but just jousting it...

Both lists are jousters, splitting them or not wouldn't accomplish much. Ryan had a few mistakes once the furbal happened, but again I'm chalking that up to tiredness. They both wanted a joust, the Us at long range, the TIEs at short. As we can see, the TIEs got what they wanted.

Edit: Also I call witch craft on Dallas and his captain planet roll summoning.

Good sir, he was playing the wonderful Ron Manfredgensen, not this "Ryan" of which you speak lol

Ron, I'm going to chalk that one up to my phone auto correct and me not paying attention. You can give me a hard time next time you come up.

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as an addition, a skilled boat player will make his least important ship (the one with only a single torp, for example) the most viable target.  often, it will shoot its torp, and then die, leaving the other two to shoot both.  if the boat player manages this, he will almost certainly win.

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the boats have one of the best dials in the game, and are hugely versatile. why so many players are fixed into this jousting mentality is beyond me.

I agree with this, they do better splitting up, but they also have a strong two turn joust. After that most people go into that mindset of mobility, instead of starting off with it and using the torps when you can. Against aces you need to converge, while against a more pure jousting list like a swarm can indeed be better to pop a torp off every so often when possible. It just comes down to, what I believe, is the U boat player not wanting to have a ship sunk before dropping it's payload. Edited by Hujoe Bigs

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And again we see the boats player failing to see that the only way to beat a Swarm is to split up. Jousting it is sheer suicide. Laziness or inexperience.

 

Neither: Ron's an exceptional player.  As an eyewitness (my olive cargo shorts are visible when I go to give Ron a hug after the match), I can attest to the fact that Ron was loopy delirious from exhaustion.  He initiated the same exact conversation with Texx twice during the match, having forgotten the first instance! :D

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And again we see the boats player failing to see that the only way to beat a Swarm is to split up. Jousting it is sheer suicide. Laziness or inexperience.

Neither: Ron's an exceptional player. As an eyewitness (my olive cargo shorts are visible when I go to give Ron a hug after the match), I can attest to the fact that Ron was loopy delirious from exhaustion. He initiated the same exact conversation with Texx twice during the match, having forgotten the first instance! :D

Absolutely fair enough. Just a shame that he couldn't show is what he's really capable of in this game then

Incidentally, my comment was more of a reference to all the other boat players I've seen pointlessly jousting swarms and then complaining that the matchup is unwinnable

Edited by atr127

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 I can attest to the fact that Ron was loopy delirious from exhaustion.  He initiated the same exact conversation with Texx twice during the match, having forgotten the first instance! :D

 

Yet another argument for 2 day events. No one should play a finale in that condition.

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I can attest to the fact that Ron was loopy delirious from exhaustion. He initiated the same exact conversation with Texx twice during the match, having forgotten the first instance! :D

Yet another argument for 2 day events. No one should play a finale in that condition.
Or... OR.... We can do a mix of 1 day and 2 day set ups, so those that can only do one or the other have options! By the time I went to bed that night I was already up for 46 hours coming straight from a grave shift at the hospital then TOing. I understand people being tired, but honestly, especially with my scheduling, one days are much easier, even with the absurd length. Edited by Hujoe Bigs

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Absolutely fair enough. Just a shame that he couldn't show is what he's really capable of in this game then

Incidentally, my comment was more of a reference to all the other boat players I've seen pointlessly jousting swarms and then complaining that the matchup is unwinnable

 

 

Indeed. I've played a trio of Jumpmasters with a TIE swarm a couple of times, and again, when they come at you head-on, if you time it right you can drift in turn 1 then hit the gas and In Theory shoot into range 1 and hammer them with range 1 shots where their torpedoes can't respond.

 

Mine's a slightly different environment to the pictured ones, though, as with Academy Pilots and Rage, I can move before the Jumpmasters - so on turn 2 I have the "turn and barrel roll to block" with one or two ships, whilst everyone else is stuck doing a much longer K-turn than black squadrons would be in order to clear the Jumpmasters. The squad listed for Yavin - with a couple of Academies and a couple of Black Squadrons - looks like a nice balance between blocking and shooting first (which is a fairly fatuous thing to say as you have unarguable evidence that it works - well done!) 

 

why splitting your scouts is the better choice against a tie swarm

 

If you split up, moving into close range with one ship moves you into long range with another, so it's impossible to avoid range 2-3 from someone. Add in the fact that TIE fighters don't actually come about that well (especially if they've got a bloody jumpmaster in front of them!) and you can get the magic "two turns of uninterrupted torpedo fire from at least two jumpmasters" that generally turns the game into a mopping up exercise.

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ATR127 if I award you two edgyness points will you settle down?

Dallas only had to play 5 games to make it in to the finals. I know, I was #1 in swiss and we IDed round 6 and I had to withdraw at top 4 for family stuff. Ron had to play 8 games to make it to the top... The hard way!

At the point of this game, Ron was asleep walking... He drove for 2 and a half hours at about 645 in the AM to make it to Squirrel.

Well done Dallas.

Come down off that edge ATR.

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Yet another argument for 2 day events. No one should play a finale in that condition.

It is getting kind of ridiculous - our LGS store owner asked if we wanted our regional to be a 2-day event, very much preferring that approach; it made for far more sociable hours for him, was less of a nightmare on fatigue, etc, etc.

 

He pretty much left the decision to the non-local ticket holders - on the grounds that since they were the ones travelling over an hour each way in addition to the tournament's duration, and who would need hotel space, so they were the ones most impacted.

 

Almost to a man they said they wanted a longer one-day event.....and then we discovered that almost to a man they'd stayed overnight because "it was such a long event". Go figure....

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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Yet another argument for 2 day events. No one should play a finale in that condition.

It is getting kind of ridiculous - our LGS store owner asked if we wanted our regional to be a 2-day event, very much preferring that approach; it made for far more sociable hours for him, was less of a nightmare on fatigue, etc, etc.

 

He pretty much left the decision to the non-local ticket holders - on the grounds that since they were the ones travelling over an hour each way in addition to the tournament's duration, and who would need hotel space, so they were the ones most impacted.

 

Almost to a man they said they wanted a longer one-day event.....and then we discovered that almost to a man they'd stayed overnight because "it was such a long event". Go figure....

 

 

Staying overnight and heading home in the morning can still be much easier on a schedule for an out of town traveler than waiting for a store to open, playing 1-4 games, and driving home after that.  

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i like running the vanilla swarm, 8 ties no upgrades no nothing. Literally the only loss out of ~15 games with it ive had was against a ghost with hera, i forgot the hera was there so i didnt block the 5k. Getting behind the swarm with even 1 ship is brutal.

 

Never joust a swarm.....lol....

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ATR127 if I award you two edgyness points will you settle down?

Dallas only had to play 5 games to make it in to the finals. I know, I was #1 in swiss and we IDed round 6 and I had to withdraw at top 4 for family stuff. Ron had to play 8 games to make it to the top... The hard way!

At the point of this game, Ron was asleep walking... He drove for 2 and a half hours at about 645 in the AM to make it to Squirrel.

Well done Dallas.

Come down off that edge ATR.

That wasn't my intention. It's just something I've noticed a lot. For example, at Yavin, two of my opponents spent quite some time moaning about the matchup - and then jousted me. In this case tiredness was clearly a factor but it doesn't change the fact that a few simple tactical changes would have given him a much better shot at the victory.

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ATR127 if I award you two edgyness points will you settle down?

Dallas only had to play 5 games to make it in to the finals. I know, I was #1 in swiss and we IDed round 6 and I had to withdraw at top 4 for family stuff. Ron had to play 8 games to make it to the top... The hard way!

At the point of this game, Ron was asleep walking... He drove for 2 and a half hours at about 645 in the AM to make it to Squirrel.

Well done Dallas.

Come down off that edge ATR.

That wasn't my intention. It's just something I've noticed a lot. For example, at Yavin, two of my opponents spent quite some time moaning about the matchup - and then jousted me. In this case tiredness was clearly a factor but it doesn't change the fact that a few simple tactical changes would have given him a much better shot at the victory.

 

 

I think it's one of those cases of players maximizing their squad's strength, not maximizing the difference in strength between their squad and another squad.  This is pretty much what you're saying, I think, though.  Maybe they see those 3 Academy Pilots and think that they won't contribute to killing a JM before it fires, not thinking about the fact that a blocked JM is 95% as good as one that doesn't fire anyway.  Not trying to make excuses for these players, just trying to understand where they might be coming from.  

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