Is Armada just a Redundant version of X-Wing?

[Lyraeus 4,759]

This is both a rant and a question.

On the UK Armada Facebook page, someone posted up that they hear often that Armada is just a Redundant version of X-Wing.

When I asked what mechanics where shared this is the response I got. Mind you that this is what this person has heard.

"Flipping over dials, movement gauges, 8 sided dice, prevalence of tokens, similar stands, etc. I'm saying that people I've spoken with have said they perceived it as 'X-wing with bigger ships'."

Now, most of you know ow me as an Armada fan boy and you would be right but this vexed me to no end. I mean really people! " X-Wing with bigger ships"!!! Really! Give me a break here. Obviously it's not the same **** thing! You don't have little fraking squadrons flying about or even 4 arcs.

Stupid, Daft, people. . .

[Drasnighta 26,831]

So, go back there, and post that X-Wing is just a Redundant version of Star Trek: Attack Wing, Since, y'know, it uses the exact same components and mechanics....

[Lyraeus 4,759]

So, go back there, and post that X-Wing is just a Redundant version of Star Trek: Attack Wing, Since, y'know, it uses the exact same components and mechanics....

X-Wing came out first right?

[Drasnighta 26,831]

As I look it up, yes, Gencon '12 for X-Wing, August '13 for Star Trek.

But its a great conversation shifter, after all...

 

Since you can then point out what is different.

[Drasnighta 26,831]

In all honesty, though....

 

...  these are just the sorts of people who are convinced of the superority of their game, without even attempting to play anything else.

 

That their game is good, and your game sucks, because you suck.  

 

There's no point engaging with someone like that.

Your best effort is, truly...  Just shrugging and saying "If that's what you believe, man..."

 

because the sort of person who gives up on something without even trying it, because 'theirs is better'...  You don't generally want them to game with you, anyway...  because they'll be the first type of person who explodes when something goes against them.

[flightmaster101 1,568]

So, go back there, and post that X-Wing is just a Redundant version of Star Trek: Attack Wing, Since, y'know, it uses the exact same components and mechanics....

X-Wing came out first right?

Yes, but then X-wing is just a redundancy on wings of war.

[flightmaster101 1,568]

What is the question btw? If the question is: is armada a redundancy on xwing the answer is a hard no. The way you put the conversation it sounds like that fella would think clue and monopoly are the same game because they both use cards, a board, tokens and dice.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

What is the question btw? If the question is: is armada a redundancy on xwing the answer is a hard no. The way you put the conversation it sounds like that fella would think clue and monopoly are the same game because they both use cards, a board, tokens and dice.

This is what people have told him without every trying Armada. So these UK X-Wing players are looking down on Armada without ever having even tried it a few times. 

 

The initial discussion is about the fact that people are selling their collection in the UK. I have brought up many points but I am getting dismissed just as much. 

 

Its not like I have not been building interest, and getting people into this game at all. . . /grumble

[Vykes 1,927]

Mind if I rephrase what you said just a liiiittle bit Dras?  

"...  these are just the sorts of people who are convinced of the superiority of their game, without even attempting to play anything else.

 

That their game is good, and your game sucks because it's not their game, and you suck because you aren't showing loyalty to their game." 

 

Lord knows this is the exact attitude of just about every protectivist gamer I've ever conversed with.  And yeah, it's really not worth one's time to engage with them about it.  

 

If we want to get into it, I'd suspect that it's a form of psychological splitting: black and white thinking in which one side is good, one side is bad, and the group that we identify with will be set apart as incontrovertibly good.  If someone else points out an aspect that they find lacking or a mechanic that another system has improved upon, it becomes an attack on 'our' system's integrity.  This attack in itself becomes distorted and what may start out as a neutral comparison contorts into  a threat to the integrity of our self-identified system, making it an defacto proxy attack against oneself.  After all, if we've invested in this game, and something else is superior to it, then we must have made a mistake or been fooled at some point and that's humiliating.  Long story short, it's an immature defense mechanism in which people dismiss competition outright. 

 

"Flipping over dials, movement gauges, 8 sided dice, prevalence of tokens, similar stands, etc. I'm saying that people I've spoken with have said they perceived it as 'X-wing with bigger ships'." 

It's all well and good for identification, but at a stretch, it describes most of my D&D games, too (Armada speed dials for spell slots available, printed cards to exhaust lined up next to it... just saying, it works).  "Movement component, dice component, reminder component, made by the same company which often leaves signature artifacts from similar design theory"  Sound about right?  

 

I do the same thing for Armada and for Warhammer Fantasy.  There are certain aspects in both games that I have said in the past to be unquestionably superior to other systems, but it's not exactly true both in retrospect.  A lot of gamers get very defensive about properties that they identify with. 

Edited July 4, 2016 by Vykes

[Lyraeus 4,759]

That is pretty much how I responded Vy. It is pretty much every game out there.

[Vykes 1,927]

It's a completely fair response, Ly-ly. 

 

To me, neither X-wing nor Armada are redundant.  Both cater to slightly different time requirements, scales, and game pacing.  I enjoy Armada more because I identify with the perceived scale, but my enjoyment Armada more doesn't make X-wing inherently inferior.  The missions (much like things like Dropzone Commander, Epic 40K, etc) are more enjoyable to me as the focus becomes more about a variable objective rather than list and mechanical superiority which I'll confess I'm not nearly as good at (even that's not entirely a fair statement, see?  But the win condition is narrower and it's one that I don't have enough experience in or affinity with).  

 

Now, give me Aturi Cluster and you'll get the most unseemly 'squee' from me!   See, both can co-exist and mutually interact in a positive and fulfilling way.  The hobbiest in me enjoys both, the coward in me is scared of the established X-wing community

Edited July 4, 2016 by Vykes

[TallGiraffe 3,447]

This title is clickbait. I hate you Lyraeus! CURSE YOU!!!!!!!

[Drasnighta 26,831]

At least its in Off Topic.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

This title is clickbait. I hate you Lyraeus! CURSE YOU!!!!!!!

 You are welcome  

At least its in Off Topic.

Hey, even this clock is right twice a day. . . Unless we use military time. . . Then only once a day.

[Drasnighta 26,831]

 

This title is clickbait. I hate you Lyraeus! CURSE YOU!!!!!!!

 You are welcome  

At least its in Off Topic.

Hey, even this clock is right twice a day. . . Unless we use military time. . . Then only once a day.

 

 

Unless you try to schedule something for exactly midnight, and Drill Sergeants start having conniptions over 'Zero-Hundred Hours'.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

This title is clickbait. I hate you Lyraeus! CURSE YOU!!!!!!!

 You are welcome  

At least its in Off Topic.

Hey, even this clock is right twice a day. . . Unless we use military time. . . Then only once a day.

 

Unless you try to schedule something for exactly midnight, and Drill Sergeants start having conniptions over 'Zero-Hundred Hours'.

Oh the good ole boot camp days. . .

[Amanal 2,557]

 

What is the question btw? If the question is: is armada a redundancy on xwing the answer is a hard no. The way you put the conversation it sounds like that fella would think clue and monopoly are the same game because they both use cards, a board, tokens and dice.

This is what people have told him without every trying Armada. So these UK X-Wing players are looking down on Armada without ever having even tried it a few times. 

 

The initial discussion is about the fact that people are selling their collection in the UK. I have brought up many points but I am getting dismissed just as much. 

 

Its not like I have not been building interest, and getting people into this game at all. . . /grumble

 

 

Well if they are selling their collection and have never played the game, I think that is their best reason for getting out. No matter how good a game is, without an opponent it is 100% rubbish.

 

Good healthy games actually have a good healthy second hand market, it provides a good cost of entry for other people who may not have funds to buy this at full retail. I played Flames of War for well over 10 years and there is a very strong number of models (painted and not) being sold on eBay at any point in time.

[Ginkapo 9,320]

This is what people have told him without every trying Armada. So these UK X-Wing players are looking down on Armada without ever having even tried it a few times. 

 

The initial discussion is about the fact that people are selling their collection in the UK. I have brought up many points but I am getting dismissed just as much. 

 

Its not like I have not been building interest, and getting people into this game at all. . . /grumble

Were quite happy in the UK. Everyone who plays cares about the game and is fun to play. Xwing on the other hand is not so friendly a community, so we will leave them to it...

[Lyraeus 4,759]

 

This is what people have told him without every trying Armada. So these UK X-Wing players are looking down on Armada without ever having even tried it a few times. 

 

The initial discussion is about the fact that people are selling their collection in the UK. I have brought up many points but I am getting dismissed just as much. 

 

Its not like I have not been building interest, and getting people into this game at all. . . /grumble

Were quite happy in the UK. Everyone who plays cares about the game and is fun to play. Xwing on the other hand is not so friendly a community, so we will leave them to it...

 

They sound like the Warhammer Conquest players in my area, or even some Warmachine players I know. . . I think you say the post as well right Ginkapo?

[Norell 1,198]

While they have common elements, I find Armada having much more depth and it's far more complex because of the many different ships. X-Wing is much faster, simpler. It's a casual game, an entry-level for those who are into this stuff, but I thin Armada is on a much higher tier simply because it has so may things to combine together.

[emfrank72 59]

Both are great games.  I like Armada more but I can't find anyone else in my small community that seems to be interested in Armada but I can go to a game shop and get in a game of X-wing once in a while.  That is why I decided to get into X-wing.  The only issue I have with my local gaming store is that they advertise Tuesday nights as an X-wing night.  So I show up with my X-wing just to find out that they'd all rather play Warmachine or 40K.  I am new to table top miniature gaming purchasing the cores for both Armada and X-wing around Christmas 2015 and had no idea how expensive these games would be.  My wife would kick me out of my house if I told her that I needed to get into another game.  I am just thankful that I finally decided to try the latest Vassal tournament so that I can play with other players that care about Armada versus trying to teach the game to my friends that are just humoring me.  After playing the first 3 rounds I can say that for me Armada is much more satisfying to play than X-wing although X-wing is a fun game to play when you only have an hour or so to play.  One of these days I need to head over to Portland for a few days to get in some face to face Armada games. 

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I welcome new players I always want more players

[Sybreed 1,110]

 

 

This is what people have told him without every trying Armada. So these UK X-Wing players are looking down on Armada without ever having even tried it a few times. 

 

The initial discussion is about the fact that people are selling their collection in the UK. I have brought up many points but I am getting dismissed just as much. 

 

Its not like I have not been building interest, and getting people into this game at all. . . /grumble

Were quite happy in the UK. Everyone who plays cares about the game and is fun to play. Xwing on the other hand is not so friendly a community, so we will leave them to it...

 

They sound like the Warhammer Conquest players in my area, or even some Warmachine players I know. . . I think you say the post as well right Ginkapo?

 

 

hey, I like Warhammer Conquest. I have the game + both expansions and some card packs, but can't find the time to play any game

 

As for the topic at hand, the few people I showed Armada to had the first reaction of saying: "hey this is just like X-Wing!".

Then after a game they decided to buy a complete set.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Yea. Hat is usually how it goes I think. People make assumptions and they either get blown out of the water or then bunker down and refuse to change their ideology

[Animewarsdude 3,639]

X-wing is a fun time but I tend to think of Armada as X-wing 2.0 + Empire at War, seeing as the devs took the lessons they learned from X-wing and tried to improve upon the structure, lessen the token amount, and use objectives to have the game be more diverse than deathmatches.