Can Guard be used before Panic?

[shnar 52]

The Invader card PANIC! is worded as such:

"Play at the start of your turn. Choose and discard one marine order from play without effect."

So here's the question, can a Marine interrupt this action and use his guard before the Invader cancels it?

Often times in our game, the guard is just seen as an extra attack (as opposed to a defensive attack) and it's used *right away* in the Invader's turn, before he even draws cards (which we allow). I'm playing a PlayByForum game over at BGG, and we did state our intention was to use our Guards at the beginning of the Invader's turn, but we're not sure if Panic cancels that or if we can use our Guard's before the Panics?

-shnar

[RedMageStatscowski 117]

Panic is played at the start of the Invader turn BEFORE any invaders are activated.  Guard is used when an invader moves.  So Panic is used before Guard can do anything.

[shnar 52]

But Guard has nothing to do with Invader figures being activated. Here's the text for Guard:

"At any point during the invader player’s turn, a
marine may discard his guard order to immediately
interrupt the invader player’s turn and make one attack (following
all the normal rules for line of sight and attacking). The
invader player’s turn is immediately halted (even if the invader
player was about to attack with an invader figure), allowing the
marine to resolve his interrupt attack. After the interrupt attack is
completed and any casualties are removed, the invader player may
continue his turn."

Notice that is says "at any point during the invader player's turn". Says nothing about the invader's figures being activated, moved, etc. So it could very easily be interpreted to mean before the Invader draws cards, you could use your Guard action. But I wasn't sure if there was any clarification made by Kevin or anyone anywhere...

-shnar

[RedMageStatscowski 117]

In most games I play, a cancel effect always works before the effects cancelled.  Would be a useless cancel if the opponent can just do the cancelled move before being cancelled.

[Turric4n 0]

without extra skills, using a guard on the start of the invader turn is useless anyway. you could make an advance action or battle action right away.

as soon as his turn begins you can interrupt. nothing in the rules preventing it, however you cannot interrupt when he already laid down his panic.

[Steve-O 473]

I would allow a marine to use Guard as soon as I (the Invader) declared I was playing Panic, but not after I had declared it was the Guard order I was targeting.  If I had already stated the guard is what I was targeting, the rules would rewind to this point and I would apologize for moving too quickly through the sequence of play.

The bottom line is, the marine could use his Guard, but my Panic would not be wasted (I could then target a different order.)  If there were no other orders I suppose the card would fizzle, but at least I could continue my turn without worrying about meddlesome guard attacks. =)

I agree that the marine should not be able to use up an order in response to that order being cancelled.  Before the order has been cancelled, yes, but not after it has been targetted.  Allowing that removes all value from the invader card.

[shnar 52]

Turric4n said:

without extra skills, using a guard on the start of the invader turn is useless anyway. you could make an advance action or battle action right away.

Most of the times in our games a Marine goes on guard precisely because of the skills he has. He has some skill like Alert that gives him a free guard, or Tactician, etc. And that guard is used more as an extra attack than as an attack of opportunity (hence the usage immediately at the beginning of the invader's turn, before he can draw cards let alone play Panic).

-shnar