*** and Multiple Evade tokens

[irishthump 29]

Guys,

 

Am I right in my reading of the latest FAQ regarding Evade tokens?

 

"Focus, evade, and target lock tokens cannot be spent for their normal effect more than once during the "Modify Attack Dice" and "Modify Defense Dice" steps. For example, a ship cannot spend 2 evade tokens to add 2 evade results. However, a ship can spend more than 1 of each token on different effects, such as spending 1 focus token as the cost for Calculation and another focus token focus token for its inherent effect."

 

So I have a ship with 2 Evade tokens and my opponent rolls hit,hit,crit and I roll blank,blank,evade. According to the FAQ I can only spend ONE Evade during this attack?

 

[MikeNYHC 217]

That is exactly correct.

[irishthump 29]

That is exactly correct.

 

Thanks Mike! Was that always the case?

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

 

That is exactly correct.

 

Thanks Mike! Was that always the case?

 

It used to be thought that you could spend multiple evades (and multiple focus tokens for the default focus effect) in one attack/defence.  The new FAQ clarifies that it's not.

[Jeff Wilder 5,326]

It used to be thought that you could spend multiple evades (and multiple focus tokens for the default focus effect) in one attack/defence.  The new FAQ clarifies that it's not.

 

The new FAQ changes it so it is not.  This is, whether the developer's call it that or not, an erratum.

 

(And it's a weird one.  How was spending multiple tokens in any fashion in need of a nerf?  Maybe something is coming that's been identified as a problem?)

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

I view it as bringing it into line with the rest of the rules.  Previously spending focus and evade tokens was the only thing in the game you could trigger multiple times per opportunity, which just doesn't seem right.

[Jeff Wilder 5,326]

I view it as bringing it into line with the rest of the rules.  Previously spending focus and evade tokens was the only thing in the game you could trigger multiple times per opportunity, which just doesn't seem right.

 

Console Fire, multiple times, just for one example.  There is not actually a once-per-opportunity rule, as far as I'm aware.  It's a rationale offered.  It doesn't apply to quite a bit of stuff.  (For instance, if it applied to Tactician, it would not have needed nerfing to Limited.)

[WWHSD 9,273]

 

I view it as bringing it into line with the rest of the rules.  Previously spending focus and evade tokens was the only thing in the game you could trigger multiple times per opportunity, which just doesn't seem right.

 

Console Fire, multiple times, just for one example.  There is not actually a once-per-opportunity rule, as far as I'm aware.  It's a rationale offered.  It doesn't apply to quite a bit of stuff.  (For instance, if it applied to Tactician, it would not have needed nerfing to Limited.)

 

 

 

I believe this this the "once per opportunity" rule. It is specific to card abilities so it would not cover things like the spending of focus, evade, or target lock tokens to perform their default modifications:

 

RRG, pg. 8:

"A card ability cannot be resolved more than

once during the timing specified on the card.

For example, a card with the timing of “when

defending” cannot be resolved twice by the

defender during a single attack."

 

 

Here is the exception that would allow a multiple Tacticians to all deal stress after a singe attack:

 

RRG, pg. 8:

"If a ship is equipped with more than one copy of

the same Upgrade card that does not require an

action to trigger the card’s ability, it can trigger

each copy of that card at the specified timing."

[Sithborg 11,644]

 

It used to be thought that you could spend multiple evades (and multiple focus tokens for the default focus effect) in one attack/defence.  The new FAQ clarifies that it's not.

 

The new FAQ changes it so it is not.  This is, whether the developer's call it that or not, an erratum.

 

(And it's a weird one.  How was spending multiple tokens in any fashion in need of a nerf?  Maybe something is coming that's been identified as a problem?)

 

 

I think there was some concern with the use of Recon Spec/Manaroo to have a ship spend a focus on nothing, use Agromech to get a TL, spend the TL, then spend the second Focus. 

 

Personally, it didn't bother me, but I could see why they would nip something like that in the bud. 

[Sergovan 1,440]

It could also be to nip those possible double evade tokens (or more) stacking to make some NPE experiences harder to achieve.

 

Think of Han with Lando, Title, and C3P0 getting 1 evade plus 1 or 2 from Lando crew and then C3P0 on top. Did I mention that he also had Engine Upgrade so only one target can shoot at him? He gets one evade from title, possibly two (more like 1) from Lando) and has C3P0 on top. You have good odds of getting 3 hits evaded per turn.

 

Not so much of a problem since evade tokens are removed, but then you have comm relay keeping evades around now. 

[Tvboy 3,529]

Spending multiple evade tokens was never an issue with Comm Relay due to the first sentence on the card.

[Sergovan 1,440]

Spending multiple evade tokens was never an issue with Comm Relay due to the first sentence on the card.

 

True, but it hints at 2 evade tokens a turn being OP, especially if it's on every ship.

[Mozic 174]

I knew a guy who came up with a list right before this came out who was very proud of a Chewbacca, Lone Wolf, Lando, C3PO, title, EI which could produce a demoralizing quantity of evades on the regular.

[JasonCole 1,024]

 

 

I view it as bringing it into line with the rest of the rules.  Previously spending focus and evade tokens was the only thing in the game you could trigger multiple times per opportunity, which just doesn't seem right.

 

Console Fire, multiple times, just for one example.  There is not actually a once-per-opportunity rule, as far as I'm aware.  It's a rationale offered.  It doesn't apply to quite a bit of stuff.  (For instance, if it applied to Tactician, it would not have needed nerfing to Limited.)

 

 

 

I believe this this the "once per opportunity" rule. It is specific to card abilities so it would not cover things like the spending of focus, evade, or target lock tokens to perform their default modifications:

 

RRG, pg. 8:

"A card ability cannot be resolved more than

once during the timing specified on the card.

For example, a card with the timing of “when

defending” cannot be resolved twice by the

defender during a single attack."

 

 

Here is the exception that would allow a multiple Tacticians to all deal stress after a singe attack:

 

RRG, pg. 8:

"If a ship is equipped with more than one copy of

the same Upgrade card that does not require an

action to trigger the card’s ability, it can trigger

each copy of that card at the specified timing."

 

Nope. Tactician is limited. One per ship.

[StevenO 2,996]

I can see restricting Focus spending to a single instance but Evade token....  that makes zero sense.  It would be one thing if Evade tokens covered multiple things but when they can just cancel one good attack die each do they need a nerf?

[digitalbusker 2,248]

It's the difference between having a consistent rule for all "while attacking/defending" effects and not. Maybe evade tokens aren't powerful enough that you need to nerf them, but that's not the question. The question is whether they're weak enough that you need to buff them.

[StevenO 2,996]

When it come to Evade tokens I believe an argument could be made that they are weak enough that they need to be buffed if being able to spend multiples for an attack is considered a buff.

[WWHSD 9,273]

When it come to Evade tokens I believe an argument could be made that they are weak enough that they need to be buffed if being able to spend multiples for an attack is considered a buff.

The problem with a ship being able to consistently being able to generate several evade tokens in a round and spend them all to defend against a single attack is that you end up with a ship that becomes almost impossible to kill if it can eliminate all but a single enemy ship.

Extremely high levels of damage mitigation (especially ones that are indepentant of dice rolls) is a problem for this game. You see it with Palp Aces Soontir, and it was part of the problem with Fat Han (especially the title, R2-D2, C-3PO version). The hyper accuracy that people are shooting now is almost becoming a requirement to push though damage on a high mitigation ship. If you need at least 4 points of damage to have a 50% chance of getting a point of damage though on a ship that is also great at dodging arcs, you need your red dice to give you those 4 hits nearly everytime you roll them.,

Edited July 4, 2016 by WWHSD

[Sithborg 11,644]

When it come to Evade tokens I believe an argument could be made that they are weak enough that they need to be buffed if being able to spend multiples for an attack is considered a buff.

 

But at the cost of uniformity of the rules. 

[SaszaPL 75]

It is still possible to combine an evade token with C3-PO, though that is only 2 evades. 

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

Focus/Evade/3PO can potentially get you up to 3.

 

Anecdotally I can entirely understand the frustration here - on big ships it's more than possible to get 3 evade tokens per round and it's immensely frustrating to play against - load a Falcon (Chewie, for maximum frustration) with the original title, PTL, C3PO, Jan - take an evade action, push for a focus action, Jan makes it an evade, C3PO guarantees at least one more.  I've run against a build that did essentially this (it was actually a rules misunderstanding with Jan and RecSpec IIRC, but I worked a way to do it legally anyway) and ended up chasing it with Soontir for something like half an hour, chipping an average of 1/4hp per turn off it.  It had something like a 2% chance of hitting Fel, he had about a 12.5% chance of hitting it IIRC.  It was just painful.  Limiting to one evade token per shot just means they are extra durability rather than outright unhittability when stacked.

 

And I know, Soontir is a problem ALL of his own...

[Parravon 5,217]

It is still possible to combine an evade token with C3-PO, though that is only 2 evades. 

You can still generate more than one evade token per round through whatever means. There's no limitation on that. The limit is now on how many you can spend, and that's now only one during the "Modify Defense Dice" step to add one evade result. 

Edited July 4, 2016 by Parravon

[Orionsbelt 4]

So does this mean soonter can only use an evade or a focus only when he turtles up? That's a pretty big nerf then...

[SaszaPL 75]

 

It is still possible to combine an evade token with C3-PO, though that is only 2 evades. 

You can still generate more than one evade token per round through whatever means. There's no limitation on that. The limit is now on how many you can spend, and that's now only one during the "Modify Defense Dice" step to add one evade result. 

 

No, the change is that you can spend one token per Modify Defense Dice step, while C3-PO gives you additional evade result (which works like a token, but is not a token). 

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

So does this mean soonter can only use an evade or a focus only when he turtles up? That's a pretty big nerf then...

No.  He can use no more than one of each.  This ruling has basically no impact on Soontir who currently has no useful ways to get more than one Evade token.