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Warpman

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Sounds like you are doing it wrong. Once you are the attacker you can measure and check arc to all the possible targets you have. 

Technically at that point you aren't the attacker, you're the Active Ship. There's a big difference.

 

 

While the you are correct that being the attacker and the active ship are not the same thing, I believe what I wrote is accurate. You become the attacker once you enter the Declare Target step and it is in that step that you are permitted to measure and check arc. If you had to be the active ship in order to check range and arc, Corran and Dengar's abilities would not work.

 

But the timing of those would be likely filed under resolving abilities, not declaring attacks.

 

EDIT: Also, I went back and checked the flow chart, and your answer is literally the first line in the flow chart: "Measure range to enemy ships and check attacker's firing arc". Ships. With an 's'. Also also, it seems i got a bit lost in the back and forth and I'm apparently posting this to the person you were replying to, not to you. But my above answer is to you, and I also checked that and I am right: in cases like Dengar you are resolving an ability, at which point you start all the way back at "declare target" with the addition that the target of that attack must be a certain ship.

Edited by That One Guy

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So...I choose to shoot an HLC and THEN I choose who I am attacking? But what if they are in range one?

It is the logic (not the rules per say) that is driving me bonkers. I am choosing a target first Before I decide what weapon and how to activate it.... So how can there not yet be a defender.

 

Because you can measure ranges before deciding who to fire on.

 

 

And if you decide to fire on someone and find that you are unable to do so with that weapon, or unable to pay the costs to fire that weapon at that target, you start the process over again.

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Sounds like you are doing it wrong. Once you are the attacker you can measure and check arc to all the possible targets you have. 

Technically at that point you aren't the attacker, you're the Active Ship. There's a big difference.

 

 

While the you are correct that being the attacker and the active ship are not the same thing, I believe what I wrote is accurate. You become the attacker once you enter the Declare Target step and it is in that step that you are permitted to measure and check arc. If you had to be the active ship in order to check range and arc, Corran and Dengar's abilities would not work.

 

But the timing of those would be likely filed under resolving abilities, not declaring attacks.

 

 

There should be a difference in the flow. The flow in the FAQ is for making an attack, not for becoming the active ship. If there is no "attacker" when you start working your way through that chart, it is impossible to follow. By the time a ship is following this flow chart it already has to be the attacker. The very first thing you do is:

 

"i. Measure range to enemy ships and check

attacker's firing arc "

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So...I choose to shoot an HLC and THEN I choose who I am attacking? But what if they are in range one?

It is the logic (not the rules per say) that is driving me bonkers. I am choosing a target first Before I decide what weapon and how to activate it.... So how can there not yet be a defender.

 

Because you can measure ranges before deciding who to fire on.

 

 

And if you decide to fire on someone and find that you are unable to do so with that weapon, or unable to pay the costs to fire that weapon at that target, you start the process over again.

 

right, just like it's always been with literally anything that could or could not be legal, like boosts, barrel rolls, or target locks.

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Sounds like you are doing it wrong. Once you are the attacker you can measure and check arc to all the possible targets you have. 

Technically at that point you aren't the attacker, you're the Active Ship. There's a big difference.

 

 

While the you are correct that being the attacker and the active ship are not the same thing, I believe what I wrote is accurate. You become the attacker once you enter the Declare Target step and it is in that step that you are permitted to measure and check arc. If you had to be the active ship in order to check range and arc, Corran and Dengar's abilities would not work.

 

But the timing of those would be likely filed under resolving abilities, not declaring attacks.

 

 

There should be a difference in the flow. The flow in the FAQ is for making an attack, not for becoming the active ship. If there is no "attacker" when you start working your way through that chart, it is impossible to follow. By the time a ship is following this flow chart it already has to be the attacker. The very first thing you do is:

 

"i. Measure range to enemy ships and check

attacker's firing arc "

 

Honestly I'm a touch confused by all this back and forth, gimme a sec to figure out what it is we're debating. ^_^

(gonna be an edit coming)

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EDIT: Also, I went back and checked the flow chart, and your answer is literally the first line in the flow chart: "Measure range to enemy ships and check attacker's firing arc". Ships. With an 's'. Also also, it seems i got a bit lost in the back and forth and I'm apparently posting this to the person you were replying to, not to you. But my above answer is to you, and I also checked that and I am right: in cases like Dengar you are resolving an ability, at which point you start all the way back at "declare target" with the addition that the target of that attack must be a certain ship.

 

 

 

 

So we're on the same page then?

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A lot of nerfs, Tel and TFA damage deck got nerfed. Along with Vallen Rudor, Vader<crew>, Lando <crew> got nerfed with the double evade tokens. Now you really need something to make use of extra evade tokens since you can't spend 2 evades in a single attack. 

 

Also the Deadeye/R4 combo has been NUKED! or sorry, got to explain is Star Wars Terms. Blown away by both the DEATH STAR, the DEATHSTAR II & STARKILLER BASE!

 

U-boats are no more. But hey IG-88A and scum cloaking device along with Sigma SPA got buffed.

You keep forgetting Overclocked/Deadeye still works fine. U-Boats as a whole have been nerfed, not nuked. Their straightforward variant has been removed, but the archetype remains.

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EDIT: Also, I went back and checked the flow chart, and your answer is literally the first line in the flow chart: "Measure range to enemy ships and check attacker's firing arc". Ships. With an 's'. Also also, it seems i got a bit lost in the back and forth and I'm apparently posting this to the person you were replying to, not to you. But my above answer is to you, and I also checked that and I am right: in cases like Dengar you are resolving an ability, at which point you start all the way back at "declare target" with the addition that the target of that attack must be a certain ship.

 

 

 

 

So we're on the same page then?

 

Yes. Also, as to my "edit coming", I think what you were getting at is that you had confusion as to when the attacker was officially declared, since the first step is "declare target", that implies that you've already declared the attacker?

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A lot of nerfs, Tel and TFA damage deck got nerfed. Along with Vallen Rudor, Vader<crew>, Lando <crew> got nerfed with the double evade tokens. Now you really need something to make use of extra evade tokens since you can't spend 2 evades in a single attack. 

 

Also the Deadeye/R4 combo has been NUKED! or sorry, got to explain is Star Wars Terms. Blown away by both the DEATH STAR, the DEATHSTAR II & STARKILLER BASE!

 

U-boats are no more. But hey IG-88A and scum cloaking device along with Sigma SPA got buffed.

You keep forgetting Overclocked/Deadeye still works fine. U-Boats as a whole have been nerfed, not nuked. Their straightforward variant has been removed, but the archetype remains.

 

An u-boat that isn't Blankout-proof and can't have even remote rliability pulling out 4\4 to bash through ace ablative token-shielding is a useless Uboat.

it's roughly the same as Soontir who can't spend more than one token, or K-wing that can't double-stress. A dead weight.

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A lot of nerfs, Tel and TFA damage deck got nerfed. Along with Vallen Rudor, Vader<crew>, Lando <crew> got nerfed with the double evade tokens. Now you really need something to make use of extra evade tokens since you can't spend 2 evades in a single attack. 

 

Also the Deadeye/R4 combo has been NUKED! or sorry, got to explain is Star Wars Terms. Blown away by both the DEATH STAR, the DEATHSTAR II & STARKILLER BASE!

 

U-boats are no more. But hey IG-88A and scum cloaking device along with Sigma SPA got buffed.

You keep forgetting Overclocked/Deadeye still works fine. U-Boats as a whole have been nerfed, not nuked. Their straightforward variant has been removed, but the archetype remains.

 

An u-boat that isn't Blankout-proof and can't have even remote rliability pulling out 4\4 to bash through ace ablative token-shielding is a useless Uboat.

it's roughly the same as Soontir who can't spend more than one token, or K-wing that can't double-stress. A dead weight.

 

 

"Ohhh, my ship isn't infallible and mindless anymore! The excitement of actually worrying about what die result i'm going to get is back! Boo-hoo!"

 

Too bad that Palp Aces still generally won against U-Boats.

 

Aces can dodge U-Boats. Can't shoot at an Ace you can't see. Even if one ship does get arc, Soontir is still guaranteed to dodge that torpedo. 

 

Also.... did i just catch you saying... that Soontir is now dead weight? Because he can't spend more than one evade token(He never has more than one on him) or more than one focus token(why would you spend more than one focus token)? What? Are we talking about the same pilot here?

 

You don't seem very good at paying attention. Nothing you have said about the FAQ or really anything in this thread is true. Please stop. 

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EDIT: Also, I went back and checked the flow chart, and your answer is literally the first line in the flow chart: "Measure range to enemy ships and check attacker's firing arc". Ships. With an 's'. Also also, it seems i got a bit lost in the back and forth and I'm apparently posting this to the person you were replying to, not to you. But my above answer is to you, and I also checked that and I am right: in cases like Dengar you are resolving an ability, at which point you start all the way back at "declare target" with the addition that the target of that attack must be a certain ship.

 

 

 

 

So we're on the same page then?

 

Yes. Also, as to my "edit coming", I think what you were getting at is that you had confusion as to when the attacker was officially declared, since the first step is "declare target", that implies that you've already declared the attacker?

 

 

I wasn't confused about when the attacker was declared (I may not have been clearly expressing myself, but I wasn't confused). My point was that while "attacker" and "active ship" are two different things, for the purposes of measuring, declaring a target. etc., a ship has to already be designated as the attacker.  

 

When a ship becomes the active ship in combat, it may perform an attack. Starting that process makes it the attacker until it has completed its attack. It's possible for a ship to continue to be the active ship after it is no longer the attacker and even become the defender while it is active.

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Warpman, we get it math and rules are not your strong suit, but serious come on.

Overclocked vs Agromech gives you the exact same chance at yielding 4 hits with a Plasma Torpedo. Focus and TL are mathematically identical in their ability to give hit hits results. This has been known since Wave 1. The only thing Focus can't do is give you Crit results, which means only Boba Fett is affected in that exchange. As far as your ability to hit things goes.

Soontir can still spend more the one token, he just can't spend two of the same token in the same attack. Given the fact that he doesn't stack evade tokens and spending two focus tokens would be pointless absolutely, Soontir isn't at all different post FAQ.

Edited by ScottieATF

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Not to complicate things, but there might be a better solution to this confusion. As background, being an architect, I deal with codes all the time and modifications and alterations happen to those 'rules' as well. When a change occurs, it is issued as a modification of an existing portion of the code on a blue sheet. That way, there's no confusion. I think FFG should have the rules in a simple app and have it updated whenever so that rules are over-written, they're highlighted and everything is in one spot. Could be awesome.....especially for idiots like me

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Not to complicate things, but there might be a better solution to this confusion. As background, being an architect, I deal with codes all the time and modifications and alterations happen to those 'rules' as well. When a change occurs, it is issued as a modification of an existing portion of the code on a blue sheet. That way, there's no confusion. I think FFG should have the rules in a simple app and have it updated whenever so that rules are over-written, they're highlighted and everything is in one spot. Could be awesome.....especially for idiots like me

Yeah.... see the thing is... they do that. Every time they add anything to the FAQ, it's highlighted with red text. 

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Not to complicate things, but there might be a better solution to this confusion. As background, being an architect, I deal with codes all the time and modifications and alterations happen to those 'rules' as well. When a change occurs, it is issued as a modification of an existing portion of the code on a blue sheet. That way, there's no confusion. I think FFG should have the rules in a simple app and have it updated whenever so that rules are over-written, they're highlighted and everything is in one spot. Could be awesome.....especially for idiots like me

Yeah.... see the thing is... they do that. Every time they add anything to the FAQ, it's highlighted with red text.

Yes, I get that....FAQ on the website, under the heading, red, blah, blah, blah....I'm talking about the idea for an app that coves the rules in a simple, easily navigated format that could be used on a tablet or device that's updated with corrections/additions/etc like any other app. It could even usable when there's no service or wifi. Just an idea....

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And why can't you just download the new FAQ? You are asking for something that does not justify the man power needed to make. Considering the FAQ is free and doesn't exactly encourage buying of product. 

 

I actually agree that an official FAQ app from FFG would be fantastic.  I don't think it's a "necessity" since you can easily access the pdf to look at, but as a judge, it would be really nice to be able to just load up an app and search for what I'm looking for instead of digging through the whole pdf for what I want.

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Vader crew is nerfed?

Yeah. He was hardcore nerfed. Can't TLT with Vader anymo... Wait, oh I mean can't cluster missile with Vader anymore.... So let's see, missile slot plus crew for empire... Oh man, my super OP combo of a firespray with Vader and cluster missiles is ruined! Hmmm, the more I think about it the more I'm thinking its less of a nerf and more of an alignment with the rest of the rules for clarity...

Edited by Bigocto

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You mean like the red text?

The red text is nice for quickly seeing if there is a change but it's horrible for trying to figure out what the change is. The only way to see what changed is to find an old copy of the FAQ and compare them. Unfortunately, FFG doesn't have an index of their old docs to browse through.

It would be nice if they started to do periodic updates to the Rules Reference Guide. The FAQ should be a place to find errata and clarifications, not a place where rules are found.

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Where do you need to be able to see the old version of what the red text is telling you?  You have the red text, which tells you how it works NOW.  What does it matter how it used to work?

 

I refer to the old FAQs every time a new one is released so that I can better understand the impact of a FAQ entry without having to rely on my memory. Is the new text just additional clarification? Is it going to change the way something in my area has been getting interpreted? Is there anything notable that got omitted from the entry? I find it also helps to clear up misunderstandings with other players when you can look at what a ruling used to be and then show how it changed.  

 

It's probably not the most common use case but I do find myself referring to older FAQs from time to time.

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Where do you need to be able to see the old version of what the red text is telling you?  You have the red text, which tells you how it works NOW.  What does it matter how it used to work?

 

I refer to the old FAQs every time a new one is released so that I can better understand the impact of a FAQ entry without having to rely on my memory. Is the new text just additional clarification? Is it going to change the way something in my area has been getting interpreted? Is there anything notable that got omitted from the entry? I find it also helps to clear up misunderstandings with other players when you can look at what a ruling used to be and then show how it changed.  

 

It's probably not the most common use case but I do find myself referring to older FAQs from time to time.

 

 

It also helps when someone necros an old thread and I can't figure out why I posted what I did.

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....further on the "rabbit trail" I started, sorry; the so could have a feature that has every pilot card and upgrade card for reference....that way, if there are ships or mods you're not familiar with, you can quick-reference them without asking or leaning over the board to see the opposing player's cards (many of us don't have every ship/card)

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It would be nice to have an online ruleset that is modified as the FAQ is changed. Would be nice if the FAQ was formatted so that you could highlight the text. But the FAQ is fine with the process. Also no issue with the flow chart, was considering a similar project but with the upgrades and pilot abilities next to the steps to know when they triggered as a whole step. Then the no third party product killed off that plan. Still don't like 1 .iv and 1. V placement... Not complaining it demanding change... Just weird.

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