Death of the Deadeye / R4 Aggromech Combo

[Sithborg 11,513]

 

But yeah FFG has gone in full reverse with this FAQ. It is like they completely regret releasing Wave. I mean Wave 4 did not make them want to remove a wave why the reversal now?

Because they couldn't think of any way to get people to stop complaining about U-Boats within the rules, so they just changed the rules.

 

As we've seen twice now, complain at FFG enough and you WILL get your way.

 

 

Only if you want to ignore confirmation bias. 

[skotothalamos 3,626]

can't wait for the meta to be overrun by rebel regen and stresshogs again

[Marinealver 8,068]

 

 

I... I have no idea what that means.

 

edit: in response to the Starcraft video

IT'S NERFING TIME!

 

or as I would say these got nuked not nerf. Anyway Blizzard has been known to overcorrect when it comes to rebalancing nerfs and has been criticized in its methods of reducing units/cards/combos in a such a manner that they drop from play all together (i.e terran Battlecruiser from starcraft and Warsong Commander from Hearthstone). This new FAQ looks like the end of U-boats saying that FFG has acted in a similar manner as Blizzard when it comes time to correcting released ships/cards. Back to Brobots my fellow Scum.

How can you conclude this is the end of UBoats when there have already been UBoats running without Agromech that have been untouched by this errata?

 

 

It wasn't just U-boats that got nerfed. A whole lot of other things got nerfed as well. U-boats just take center stage because they were at the top of the meta which was probably why the FAQ was made. But a bunch of other stuff got nerfed as well, Tel, Vallen Rudor, Stresshog, ect.

 

The FAQ contained more nerfs than buffs. Here is how you can tell. Take a list that hasn't been touched, two if you can. Lets take a look at Palp Aces and what has been changed to them, nothing. After the FAQ do they appear stronger or weaker. They appear stronger which means that there were more nerfs. If there were a bunch of changes that buff past list like say TIE Swarm or Biggs Walks the Dogs but didn't affect Palp Aces then Palp Aces would appear weaker in the metta because there were more buffs than nerfs.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Marinealver

[Warpman 2,115]

Yayyyyyy!

Maybe now I can play competitive without running Palpaces!

On the contrary. #2 list was Palp aces, now it's #1 list

that's a dark day for the game.

[Admiral Deathrain 5,231]

 

Yayyyyyy!

Maybe now I can play competitive without running Palpaces!

On the contrary. #2 list was Palp aces, now it's #1 list

that's a dark day for the game.

 

Nah. The nerf isn't that bad. People no longer being wed to U-Boats does mean there is more room for harder Palpace counters. Not to mention that Homing Missile Veterans look even more atractive now...

[Hujoe Bigs 2,071]

I took over clocked Us and a G1 to 29th in Hoth. I actually came close to displacing Ryan from his seat at the top tables had I won my last game I would of out MoVed him period.

Everyone that thinks this is the end or a nerf or that you only run it because of X, well you are just plain wrong. Over clocked were always a strong contender and worked just fine even into the late game due to the defense increase as well.

Uboats with plasmas and over clock will still hit as hard as the agro mechs, just with a stress, but for a point cheaper. If you have only faught Us with agros, you are in for a surprise when they just switch to plasma/over clock.

[Warpman 2,115]

 

 

Yayyyyyy!

Maybe now I can play competitive without running Palpaces!

On the contrary. #2 list was Palp aces, now it's #1 list

that's a dark day for the game.

 

Nah. The nerf isn't that bad. People no longer being wed to U-Boats does mean there is more room for harder Palpace counters. Not to mention that Homing Missile Veterans look even more atractive now...

 

You did see that the greatest threat to Palp aces being TLTactician is dead as well?

So we return to the WC2015 meta minus KKK

that means VI PS10 regen rebels and palp aces. 

 

that's an indiverse meta. The dark days dawn again

 

p.s. been running plasma+Aggro

Edited July 2, 2016 by Warpman

[ScottieATF 2,864]

I... I have no idea what that means.

 

edit: in response to the Starcraft video

IT'S NERFING TIME!

 

or as I would say these got nuked not nerf. Anyway Blizzard has been known to overcorrect when it comes to rebalancing nerfs and has been criticized in its methods of reducing units/cards/combos in a such a manner that they drop from play all together (i.e terran Battlecruiser from starcraft and Warsong Commander from Hearthstone). This new FAQ looks like the end of U-boats saying that FFG has acted in a similar manner as Blizzard when it comes time to correcting released ships/cards. Back to Brobots my fellow Scum.

How can you conclude this is the end of UBoats when there have already been UBoats running without Agromech that have been untouched by this errata?

 

It wasn't just U-boats that got nerfed. A whole lot of other things got nerfed as well. U-boats just take center stage because they were at the top of the meta which was probably why the FAQ was made. But a bunch of other stuff got nerfed as well, Tel, Vallen Rudor, Stresshog, ect.

 

The FAQ contained more nerfs than buffs. Here is how you can tell. Take a list that hasn't been touched, two if you can. Lets take a look at Palp Aces and what has been changed to them, nothing. After the FAQ do they appear stronger or weaker. They appear stronger which means that there were more nerfs. If there were a bunch of changes that buff past list like say TIE Swarm or Biggs Walks the Dogs but didn't affect Palp Aces then Palp Aces would appear weaker in the metta because there were more buffs than nerfs.

And none of that answered the question posed to you.

You've been pretty much spamming these forums with how much this FAQ killed UBoats by changing the way the Agromech functioned. I, and others, have pointed out to you that UBoats have already been ran without using the Agromech as part of their build. Either entirely or on some of the UBoats. Either way, non Agromech Uboats have been winning and placing in events. So since that is already happening, how can you conclude that with the change to Agromech Uboats are dead?

Are you just trollin or are you going to bother backing up your spam?

[namdoolb 276]

The take-away from this is that lists that were decent against the field but bad against u-boats will get more airtime now.

 

I can't see this as being a bad thing seeing as (it definitely feels like) u-boats shut out a lot more lists than most other popular lists.

 

It also helps that u-boats aren't completely nerfed; you're still going to see them crop up with rec-spec & a different 3rd ship or with the overclocked r4.

But luckily both of these builds aren't quite as nasty as the original.

 

I think this is good: Players will have an easier time innovating when they don't have to plan around u-boats so hard anymore.

[Admiral Deathrain 5,231]

 

 

 

Yayyyyyy!

Maybe now I can play competitive without running Palpaces!

On the contrary. #2 list was Palp aces, now it's #1 list

that's a dark day for the game.

 

Nah. The nerf isn't that bad. People no longer being wed to U-Boats does mean there is more room for harder Palpace counters. Not to mention that Homing Missile Veterans look even more atractive now...

 

You did see that the greatest threat to Palp aces being TLTactician is dead as well?

So we return to the WC2015 meta minus KKK

that means VI PS10 regen rebels and palp aces. 

 

that's an indiverse meta. The dark days dawn again

 

p.s. been running plasma+Aggro

 

But if they want to start their obnoxius regen stuff again just run OC-Plasma-Boats. There really is no issue here. The true loser is Boba Fett crew, as that loses its most reliable platform.

[Warpman 2,115]

 

 

 

 

Yayyyyyy!

Maybe now I can play competitive without running Palpaces!

On the contrary. #2 list was Palp aces, now it's #1 list

that's a dark day for the game.

 

Nah. The nerf isn't that bad. People no longer being wed to U-Boats does mean there is more room for harder Palpace counters. Not to mention that Homing Missile Veterans look even more atractive now...

 

You did see that the greatest threat to Palp aces being TLTactician is dead as well?

So we return to the WC2015 meta minus KKK

that means VI PS10 regen rebels and palp aces. 

 

that's an indiverse meta. The dark days dawn again

 

p.s. been running plasma+Aggro

 

But if they want to start their obnoxius regen stuff again just run OC-Plasma-Boats. There really is no issue here. The true loser is Boba Fett crew, as that loses its most reliable platform.

 

without R4 plasmas tend to go fwooom  and just 2\4 or 3\4 damage.

Poe can eat 2\3 and not flinch, regenning back half of your output in a moment.

Horn will most likely not get torps after first encounter at all.

 

blanks now hurt great deal, and blanking out means you are dead (overclocked R4 gives stress so no second try after the loop) and more than that, the focus you get from it most likely isn't going to help as much.

True loser is S&V actually, because outside UUU ut U666U we don't really have much to fend off the PTL madness that ensures

Maybe it's time to go back to BrobotSaw and get those 4\4 the other way. (Yet still three 4\4 is better than two 4\4 and two 4\4+block is even more so)

[Hujoe Bigs 2,071]

without R4 plasmas tend to go fwooom  and just 2\4 or 3\4 damage.

Poe can eat 2\3 and not flinch, regenning back half of your output in a moment.

Horn will most likely not get torps after first encounter at all.

 

blanks now hurt great deal, and blanking out means you are dead (overclocked R4 gives stress so no second try after the loop) and more than that, the focus you get from it most likely isn't going to help as much.

True loser is S&V actually, because outside UUU ut U666U we don't really have much to fend off the PTL madness that ensures

Maybe it's time to go back to BrobotSaw and get those 4\4 the other way. (Yet still three 4\4 is better than two 4\4 and two 4\4+block is even more so)

You really need to learn math and how this game works. From what I've read of your posts since FAQ update its becoming really apparent you don't know the game enough to complain the lengths that you do. A plasma with a focus has just the same hit chance as a plasma with a TL. Period. They both increase your odds by 50%. Add in GC and that's a 90% chance for 4 hits. Don't believe me? Go look up jugglers math for it then.

[Valca 397]

without R4 plasmas tend to go fwooom and just 2\4 or 3\4 damage.

Poe can eat 2\3 and not flinch, regenning back half of your output in a moment.

Horn will most likely not get torps after first encounter at all.

blanks now hurt great deal, and blanking out means you are dead (overclocked R4 gives stress so no second try after the loop) and more than that, the focus you get from it most likely isn't going to help as much.

True loser is S&V actually, because outside UUU ut U666U we don't really have much to fend off the PTL madness that ensures

Maybe it's time to go back to BrobotSaw and get those 4\4 the other way. (Yet still three 4\4 is better than two 4\4 and two 4\4+block is even more so)

You really need to learn math and how this game works. From what I've read of your posts since FAQ update its becoming really apparent you don't know the game enough to complain the lengths that you do. A plasma with a focus has just the same hit chance as a plasma with a TL. Period. They both increase your odds by 50%. Add in GC and that's a 90% chance for 4 hits. Don't believe me? Go look up jugglers math for it then.

You're right about the focus and target lock. They both have an average of 3 hits. They also have the same odds of getting 4 hits when you add in GC, but it's not 90% it's 74%. You need focus, TL, and GC together to get a 90%.

Maybe you're thinking of Proton Torpedoes. A PT with GC and TL has a 90% chance of getting 4 hits if you leave 1 focus on the table when you reroll.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Valca

[Elkerlyc 727]

I feel Tie bombers are a **** fine platform to use.

2 of them leaves enough points for an ace and a blocker. Or anything else you fancy really.

And if you are truly brave you could field 4 bombers; extra munitions, homing missile/proton or plasma torps and long range scanners leaves a few points to play with.

[StratN8 17]

You did see that the greatest threat to Palp aces being TLTactician is dead as well?

So we return to the WC2015 meta minus KKK

that means VI PS10 regen rebels and palp aces.

that's an indiverse meta. The dark days dawn again

I think the new Tie Defenders will probably help keep the aces in check. Defenders absolutely love fighting ships that are allergic to K-Turns (as most Aces are) and both titles offer their own unique quandaries for typical aces.

Also I wouldn't write off K-wings as anti-ace tools just yet. They still have a large anti-ace toolkit available to them (Flechette Torps, Thermal Detonators, Autoblaster Turrets, Homing Missiles with Scanners,, Conner Nets, Sabine), just a matter of finding the right combination of tools to bring.

Edited July 2, 2016 by StratN8

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

that, and the greatest threat to palp aces wasn't and never was double tact TLT ks

 

it's conners (also ruin brobots and rebel regen)

 

 

the only thing conners truly sucked against? r4 aggro uboats

Edited July 2, 2016 by ficklegreendice

[Karhedron 1,865]

I feel Tie bombers are a **** fine platform to use.

2 of them leaves enough points for an ace and a blocker. Or anything else you fancy really.

I think Decivader to force through damage against Aces works very well with a pair of bombers to crack large targets. I hope to test the theory soon.

[VanderLegion 4,939]

Yayyyyyy!

Maybe now I can play competitive without running Palpaces!

On the contrary. #2 list was Palp aces, now it's #1 list

that's a dark day for the game.

Nah. The nerf isn't that bad. People no longer being wed to U-Boats does mean there is more room for harder Palpace counters. Not to mention that Homing Missile Veterans look even more atractive now...

You did see that the greatest threat to Palp aces being TLTactician is dead as well?

So we return to the WC2015 meta minus KKK

that means VI PS10 regen rebels and palp aces.

that's an indiverse meta. The dark days dawn again

p.s. been running plasma+Aggro

But if they want to start their obnoxius regen stuff again just run OC-Plasma-Boats. There really is no issue here. The true loser is Boba Fett crew, as that loses its most reliable platform.

without R4 plasmas tend to go fwooom and just 2\4 or 3\4 damage.

Poe can eat 2\3 and not flinch, regenning back half of your output in a moment.

Horn will most likely not get torps after first encounter at all.

blanks now hurt great deal, and blanking out means you are dead (overclocked R4 gives stress so no second try after the loop) and more than that, the focus you get from it most likely isn't going to help as much.

True loser is S&V actually, because outside UUU ut U666U we don't really have much to fend off the PTL madness that ensures

Maybe it's time to go back to BrobotSaw and get those 4\4 the other way. (Yet still three 4\4 is better than two 4\4 and two 4\4+block is even more so)

We have our own ptl platform to combat the ptl madness. My 58 point super dengar build eats palp aces for lunchc Edited July 2, 2016 by VanderLegion

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

or just...feedback array?

 

incidentally, another great use for jumpmasters (int agent, feedback; barrel roll to victory)

Edited July 2, 2016 by ficklegreendice

[WWHSD 9,273]

that, and the greatest threat to palp aces wasn't and never was double tact TLT ks

 

it's conners (also ruin brobots and rebel regen)

 

 

the only thing conners truly sucked against? r4 aggro uboats

 

 

Lists like BBBBZ probably don't mind Conner Nets all that much either.

Edited July 2, 2016 by WWHSD

[AssortedNeedles 107]

It doesn't matter really? Already a lot of the best u=boat lists used mostly Overclocked. You have a bit less chance to roll a crit on your Boba/proton boat though...

[Zazaa 563]

This is bad news for sure! That's death of R4 and FFG killed Deadeye as fast as it was back in game!

Not liking it at all! Oh, well I was always more excited about Dengar and Manaroo..

[Rakky Wistol 2,903]

For those of us who hate rebels, how does the R4 ruling hurt kwings?

If Miranda misses with both shots of TLT, Gunner lets her fire both shots of TLT again at full power.

Something else in the FAQ then. Nothing to do with Kwings who can't take R4s. Wouldn't a full gunner TLT be a buff to Kwings in that case?

[Admiral Deathrain 5,231]

The only thing thats going to truly matter is that U-Boats won't be able to use their white sloop as liberaly anymore. You can still punch through aces using 4-LOM.

[IG88E 1,688]

Yayyyyyy!

Maybe now I can play competitive without running Palpaces!

On the contrary. #2 list was Palp aces, now it's #1 list

that's a dark day for the game.

No it's not! PalpAces has A LOT OF possible counter lists, whereas U-baots habe just very few