Death of the Deadeye / R4 Aggromech Combo

[Squark 2,539]

FGD hasn't been saying that U-boats are dead, just pushing back against the idea that all they need to do is switch to Overclocked and continue same as ever.

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

god knows I'm not going to stop flying Jm5ks

 

I ain't going back to Zs, man, you can't make me!

[FluxCapcitr 240]

And even accounting for all that we a still back to the core of the comments being made.

People are acting as if this FAQ kills the Contracted Scout. As if without the Agromech that the build falls apart. But we know that makes no sense, because people have been playing without the Agromech and still winning.

So even if you accept that the Agromech was the better option, you still are left with the fact that the non-Agromech options are still good enough to be regularly placing and winning events.

Yes, absolutely Overclocked is used to gain an initiative bid overy Agromech versions. But it isn't as if Overclocked versions are only playing other Contracted Scout builds, they still have to be able to beat those other lists as well to do well.

So at the core of it the idea that the U-Boat is dead without the Agromech is farcical as they've already proven still capable without the Agromech. Whether the Agromech is strictly better or not doesn't bear of that.

 

 

I don't think anyone in this thread is saying scouts are dead as in they are no longer good.  What people are saying is that they're no longer going to define the meta.  They're still very good, but the most popular build has been eliminated and the alternatives are either slightly inferior and/or require greater skill.  In addition, the gap between contracted scouts and other ordnance/alpha-strike builds has dramatically shrunk.

[Sithborg 11,513]

It reminds me a lot of the Phantom "nerf". Jumpmasters are still very playable, if not quite as powerful as they used to be. 

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

It reminds me a lot of the Phantom "nerf". Jumpmasters are still very playable, if not quite as powerful as they used to be. 

 

well, the main difference here is that there's a massive difference between viable Phantom and viable "Jumpmaster"

 

ye ole Phantom was basically just whisper and echo with ACDs. Jumpmasters, though? We go bumpmasters, we got torpscouts (overclocked and r4 aggro varities) and we got the characters (personally huge fan of manaroo)

 

the only jumpmaster affected was the r4 aggro torpscout, by far the more flexible and late game capable variant of torp scout

 

specifically, we lost a pretty good deal of the self-sufficient reliability (near guaranteed 4-hits) on its alpha strike

 

 

so yes, jumpmasters are still FAR more than playable. But are triple torpscout jumpmasters as exceptionally viable as they were prior to the errata?

 

the answer is obviously "nope, they got worse" as it seems every single variant had at least one r4 aggro torpscout in there.

 

the extent of how much worse that specific list-type got is up for debate, but I don't we'll be seeing it as much. Palp aces already gave it trouble in its pre-errata near-guaranteed-four-hits incarnation, and it's only going to get worse from here.

 

most likely, we're going to see a change in how torpscouts are implemented in squads (2-ofs now, probably, with a more late game capable ship following suit)

 

we're probably also going to see a massive knee jerk exodus from jumpmasters in general, but that's more human psycology than anything

Edited July 1, 2016 by ficklegreendice

[streamdragon 380]

No thats not how its working.

 

R4 Aggromech does not give you a TL if you spend a focus via Deadeye because per the timing chart, you have no target yet to TL against.

If you get another focus, you can still spend it on that attack. You cant spend tokens for the same effect - deadeye and normal focus are not the same effect.

 

Small correction.  You have a target.  They are not yet the Defender, however.  And since R4 only lets you acquire a TL on the defender, you cannot acquire the TL.

 

Edit: R4 is basically a Fire Control System that takes up the salvaged astromech slot and requires you to spend a focus for the exact same cost.

Edited July 1, 2016 by streamdragon

[Warpman 2,115]

 

No thats not how its working.

 

R4 Aggromech does not give you a TL if you spend a focus via Deadeye because per the timing chart, you have no target yet to TL against.

If you get another focus, you can still spend it on that attack. You cant spend tokens for the same effect - deadeye and normal focus are not the same effect.

 

Small correction.  You have a target.  They are not yet the Defender, however.  And since R4 only lets you acquire a TL on the defender, you cannot acquire the TL.

 

Edit: R4 is basically a Fire Control System that takes up the salvaged astromech slot and requires you to spend a focus for the exact same cost.

 

Not exactly, you can use it in the middle of an attack sequense

 

sadly, FAQ took TL\Focus spending out of attack sequence

 

what's WEIRD because you spend the focus token AFTER you declare what enemy you target and what card(s) you use to do so

so actually the FAQ is a blunt and completely miserable U-boat nerf. nothing more than that.

Spending focus happens after you declare the defender and measure arc-range.

BOO FFG

[ScottieATF 2,864]

Warpman you don't have, and apparently never have had, a strong understand of how to resolve an attack in this game.

[IG88E 1,688]

Danger Zone K-wings giving 2 stress with TLT is also dead

Why it was 2 stress before?

[Marinealver 8,068]

Here are the U-boats.

 

This one got blown up by the Deathstar

 

This one took a hit from Deathstar II

And this took all the blasts from Starkiller base.

 

Oh also Blaster Turret got nerfed as well for some bizarre reason.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Marinealver

[ScottieATF 2,864]

Except all of the U-Boats that were already not running Agromech?

[VanderLegion 4,939]

Oh also Blaster Turret got nerfed as well for some bizarre reason.

 

 

No bizarre reason, it just happened to share a timing window with the deadeye/r4 interaction.  I'd be more upset if blaster turret hadn't arleady been all but unusable on a y-wing...

[Marinealver 8,068]

 

Oh also Blaster Turret got nerfed as well for some bizarre reason.

 

 

No bizarre reason, it just happened to share a timing window with the deadeye/r4 interaction.  I'd be more upset if blaster turret hadn't arleady been all but unusable on a y-wing...

 

In Wave 6 R4-Agromech was made for Baster Turret Y-wings otherwise why use them. Well they failed to bring Blaster Turret into the game so not much of a loss there.

But yeah FFG has gone in full reverse with this FAQ. It is like they completely regret releasing Wave. I mean Wave 4 did not make them want to remove a wave why the reversal now?

Edited July 2, 2016 by Marinealver

[streamdragon 380]

But yeah FFG has gone in full reverse with this FAQ. It is like they completely regret releasing Wave. I mean Wave 4 did not make them want to remove a wave why the reversal now?

Because they couldn't think of any way to get people to stop complaining about U-Boats within the rules, so they just changed the rules.

 

As we've seen twice now, complain at FFG enough and you WILL get your way.

Edited July 2, 2016 by streamdragon

[Marinealver 8,068]

 

But yeah FFG has gone in full reverse with this FAQ. It is like they completely regret releasing Wave. I mean Wave 4 did not make them want to remove a wave why the reversal now?

Because they couldn't think of any way to get people to stop complaining about U-Boats within the rules, so they just changed the rules.

 

As we've seen twice now, complain at FFG enough and you WILL get your way.

 

Battlecruisers OP. Tier 3 should die to Tier 1 obviously 

[VanderLegion 4,939]

Oh also Blaster Turret got nerfed as well for some bizarre reason.

 

 

No bizarre reason, it just happened to share a timing window with the deadeye/r4 interaction.  I'd be more upset if blaster turret hadn't arleady been all but unusable on a y-wing...

In Wave 6 R4-Agromech was made for Baster Turret Y-wings otherwise why use them. Well they failed to bring Blaster Turret into the game so not much of a loss there.

But yeah FFG has gone in full reverse with this FAQ. It is like they completely regret releasing Wave. I mean Wave 4 did not make them want to remove a wave why the reversal now?

I know perfectly well what r4 was supposed to docwith bladter ywings. And it saw (some) use in wave 6. But even then I saw more btl ion than blaster. And then wave 7 came with tlt and blaster saw even less use

[streamdragon 380]

I... I have no idea what that means.

 

edit: in response to the Starcraft video

Edited July 2, 2016 by streamdragon

[Marinealver 8,068]

I... I have no idea what that means.

 

edit: in response to the Starcraft video

IT'S NERFING TIME!

 

or as I would say these got nuked not nerf. Anyway Blizzard has been known to overcorrect when it comes to rebalancing nerfs and has been criticized in its methods of reducing units/cards/combos in a such a manner that they drop from play all together (i.e terran Battlecruiser from starcraft and Warsong Commander from Hearthstone). This new FAQ looks like the end of U-boats saying that FFG has acted in a similar manner as Blizzard when it comes time to correcting released ships/cards. Back to Brobots my fellow Scum.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Marinealver

[Warlon 1,226]

Yayyyyyy!

Maybe now I can play competitive without running Palpaces!

[VanderLegion 4,939]

I... I have no idea what that means.

 

edit: in response to the Starcraft video

IT'S NERFING TIME!

 

or as I would say these got nuked not nerf. Anyway Blizzard has been known to overcorrect when it comes to rebalancing nerfs and has been criticized in its methods of reducing units/cards/combos in a such a manner that they drop from play all together (i.e terran Battlecruiser from starcraft and Warsong Commander from Hearthstone). This new FAQ looks like the end of U-boats saying that FFG has acted in a similar manner as Blizzard when it comes time to correcting released ships/cards. Back to Brobots my fellow Scum.

Its far from the end of uboats

[VanderLegion 4,939]

Double post

Edited July 2, 2016 by VanderLegion

[Marinealver 8,068]

Yayyyyyy!

Maybe now I can play competitive without running Palpaces!

They haven't been touched? Oh I see you have forgotten the   which states for sarcastic post

Edited July 2, 2016 by Marinealver

[BleakSquadron 405]

Not even close to the end of u-boats. Just the removal of a single combo that allowed an inordinate amount of near guaranteed damage. Now the damage output is less reliable. The ship still has an amazing dial. The ship still has every best upgrade slot in it's faction. Lists with 3 will still see competitive play. The only huge change is that they have less punch end-game with their pwt. Perhaps this allows for some list flexibility? 2 u-boats and an end-game closer? Still a perfectly healthy ship.

[streamdragon 380]

 

I... I have no idea what that means.

 

edit: in response to the Starcraft video

IT'S NERFING TIME!

 

or as I would say these got nuked not nerf. Anyway Blizzard has been known to overcorrect when it comes to rebalancing nerfs and has been criticized in its methods of reducing units/cards/combos in a such a manner that they drop from play all together (i.e terran Battlecruiser from starcraft and Warsong Commander from Hearthstone). This new FAQ looks like the end of U-boats saying that FFG has acted in a similar manner as Blizzard when it comes time to correcting released ships/cards. Back to Brobots my fellow Scum.

 

Ah, I played a warrior in WoW, so I am familiar with Blizz's overdone nerfs!

 

I doubt this will be the end of U-Boats, but it is rather unfortunate that the turret slot was further pushed towards TLTs with basically everything else being not great or a Dorsal Turret which is "okay".

[ScottieATF 2,864]

I... I have no idea what that means.

 

edit: in response to the Starcraft video

IT'S NERFING TIME!

 

or as I would say these got nuked not nerf. Anyway Blizzard has been known to overcorrect when it comes to rebalancing nerfs and has been criticized in its methods of reducing units/cards/combos in a such a manner that they drop from play all together (i.e terran Battlecruiser from starcraft and Warsong Commander from Hearthstone). This new FAQ looks like the end of U-boats saying that FFG has acted in a similar manner as Blizzard when it comes time to correcting released ships/cards. Back to Brobots my fellow Scum.

How can you conclude this is the end of UBoats when there have already been UBoats running without Agromech that have been untouched by this errata?